Re: Topband: final from me -- Remotes

[Jim Brown]

On 3/10/2021 7:30 PM, GEORGE WALLNER wrote:
On remotes: When somebody builds a station in Haiti and operates it 
remotely, he has just enabled people to work Haiti, which may not happen 
otherwise. As long as there is no pretense of something else, I think 
its great.


Me too. Remote stations and their control systems can be difficult to 
build. What I don't condone, and view as cheating (even though badly 
conceived ARRL Rules allow it) is to remotely operate (or travel to) a 
station in ME to work EU countries on topband that you can't work from 
your QTH in CO or CA and submit them for DXCC.


73, Jim K9YC


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: final from me -- Remotes

[W7TMT - Patrick]

George,

I'm looking forward to my 2nd C6AGU RIB (Radio In a Box) QSO in the upcoming 
Spring STEW using your teams amazing example of remote operation technologies. 
I'll be using my 80' vertical totally surrounded by the saltwater of Puget 
Sound near Seattle. Thanks again for my first RIB Q in 2020 ARRL 160. Keep up 
the great remote station development work. Really bleeding edge stuff. Congrats 
to you and the team on the amazing progress.

73
Patrick, W7TMT

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of 
GEORGE WALLNER
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 19:31
To: Hans Hjelmström ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: final from me -- Remotes

Hans,

On remotes: When somebody builds a station in Haiti and operates it remotely, 
he has just enabled people to work Haiti, which may not happen otherwise. As 
long as there is no pretense of something else, I think its great.
73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU



On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 21:39:49 +0100
  Hans Hjelmström  wrote:
> Hi folks
>
> Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business .
> MYSELF  I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator 
> since 1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.
>
> I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
> I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN  and SP2XF writing.AND others.
>
> Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
> If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams , 
> I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.
>
> In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new 
> Hams) , that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of 
> this PC to PC play game.
>
> WHY.  Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours , 
> and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the 
> dx on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many 
> many years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on 
> CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social 
> connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.
>
> How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4 and 
> making so called QSO:s on two or even more  ( up to 3 bands ) at the 
> same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???
>
> I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4 
> business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it 
> compete with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.
>
>Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were 
>on 6 or 160  meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 
>4 and  we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to  
>make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other person I 
>work. Not just to click on a yellow line.
> I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.
>
> Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this 
> remote-story is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a 
> station less than
> 150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT.  BUT build a station in 
> Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the 
> pleasure to work a new one.
>
> Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.
>
>From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking  for 
>dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California  
>( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had  
>worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA 
>,east to west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before all 
>of  these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...
>
> Kind regards
>
> SM6CVX   ( Since 1961 )   Hans
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
> Reflector

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_
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Re: Topband: final from me -- Remotes

[GEORGE WALLNER]

Hans,

On remotes: When somebody builds a station in Haiti and operates it 
remotely, he has just enabled people to work Haiti, which may not happen 
otherwise. As long as there is no pretense of something else, I think its 
great.

73,
George,
AA7JV/C6AGU



On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 21:39:49 +0100
 Hans Hjelmström  wrote:

Hi folks

Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business
.
MYSELF  I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator since
1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.

I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN  and SP2XF writing.AND others.

Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams ,
I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.

In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new Hams) ,
that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of this PC to PC play game. 


WHY.  Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours ,
and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the dx
on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many many
years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on 
CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social 
connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.

How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4 
and making so called QSO:s on two or even more  ( up to 3 bands ) at

the same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???

I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4 
business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it compete
with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.  


Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were on 6 or 
160  meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 4 and
we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to 
make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other person I work. Not just to click on a yellow line.

I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.

Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this remote-story 
is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a station less

than
150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT.  BUT build a station in
Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the pleasure
to work a new one.

Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.

From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking
for dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California
( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had
worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA ,east to 
west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before all of
these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...

Kind regards

SM6CVX   ( Since 1961 )   Hans
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: final from me

[Renee K6FSB]

Hans et all-
I kinda mirror Hans, myself having been licensed since 1967 and having 
to learn/do things the old/hard way which makes things sweeter when they 
happenthe pc to pc is not my thing and never willkinda takes the 
fun and skill out of the hobby...I even refuse to even have a computer 
in the radio room,  that belongs in the office IMHO.
I had started the move down to 630M until all the pc stuffso I have 
been on less and less which is most likely a mistake and I should be on 
CW more to compensate for the pc folks
I am not going to berate the pc folks nor will I promote pc stuff. 
regarding remotes well I will say nothing since I can say nothing nice. 
I am too old school.
As a rule there should be room for all of us to find our place of 
enjoyment without infringing on others and I will try to live by such.

Renée, K6FSB

On 3/10/21 12:39 PM, Hans Hjelmström wrote:

Hi folks

Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business
.
MYSELF  I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator since
1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.

I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN  and SP2XF writing.AND others.

Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams ,
I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.

In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new Hams) ,
that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of this PC to 
PC play game.

WHY.  Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours ,
and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the dx
on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many many
years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on 
CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social 
connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.

How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4
and making so called QSO:s on two or even more  ( up to 3 bands ) at
the same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???

I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4
business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it compete
with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.

Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were on 6 or 
160  meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 4 and
we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to
make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other person I 
work. Not just to click on a yellow line.
I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.

Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this remote-story
is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a station less
than
150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT.  BUT build a station in
Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the pleasure
to work a new one.

Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.

 From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking
for dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California
( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had
worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA ,east to 
west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before all of
these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...

Kind regards

SM6CVX   ( Since 1961 )   Hans
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector


_
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Re: Topband: final from me

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Great Hans

I guess you felt the same way when the cluster appeared. All your life
doing DX, going through the bands with the dial and one day it was no
longer necessary, the PC would tell you where the DX was

I imagine that back then you would also have been furious like now, and
have claimed to separate the DXCC between those who never used spots and
those who did.

This is all very funny

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W


Libre
de virus. www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

El mié, 10 mar 2021 a las 18:15, Hans Hjelmström ()
escribió:

> Hi folks
>
> Been reading all sayings about FT8/FT4-business
> .
> MYSELF  I will NEVER ever use FT4 or FT 8. Been active Ham-operator since
> 1961. I am now 75 years old,and still active,and dx-expeditioner.
>
> I say, this PC to PC business kills the challenge of our hobby.
> I agree 100% with OK1RR and OK1TN  and SP2XF writing.AND others.
>
> Of course, IF you like FT 4/FT 8 ,its up to you to use it.
> If I do NOT like it, it must be acceptable for me to tell other Hams ,
> I feel I do NOT like it. And I will NEVER use it.
>
> In Sweden ,I know ,,,a LOT of Hams ( old-timers mainly ,but also new Hams)
> ,
> that has stopped Ham-radio and sold all their equipment because of this PC
> to PC play game.
>
> WHY.  Well, they have always been chasing dx, by looking for hours ,
> and with their own ears finally heard the weak dx, and they called the dx
> on CW/SSB/RY using their challenge and equipment built during many many
> years. And when not looking for expeditions, they have made nice chat on
> CW/SSB/RY with other Hams world-wide, talking and making social
> connection.Never mind if they have a big or smaller station.
>
> How can we say its Ham-radio, when a dx-operator is using FT8/FT 4
> and making so called QSO:s on two or even more  ( up to 3 bands ) at
> the same time. YES, its technically super, BUT is this what we want ???
>
> I think ARRL/dxcc should make a separate class for this FT 8/FT 4
> business. NOT accept it for BAND/DXCC. It is NOT fair to let it compete
> with CW/SSB/RY for BAND/DXCC.
>
> Finally ,last thing,why I do NOT like it. Before a dx-expedition were on 6
> or 160  meters during ALL expedition.NOW they share it with FT8/FT 4 and
> we have less time to do a real QSO. AND for no expedition, I prefer to
> make a QSO and exchange information,and try to learn about the other
> person I work. Not just to click on a yellow line.
> I will NEVER send a DONATION for a FT8 -expedition.
>
> Last outside this FT 8-business. I also must say, that this remote-story
> is under NO control. YES, of course ,you can build a station less
> than
> 150 kilometers or so from your home.PERFECT.  BUT build a station in
> Haiti and sit and operate it from NYC, THATS really killing the pleasure
> to work a new one.
>
> Thanks for letting me give my feelings. I will NOT react on any replies.
>
> From MAY until AUGUST I will be around 50098 CW ( ONLY ) looking
> for dx I can hear in my ears. Last season I worked 7 stations in California
> ( info for K9YC ).So IF there had been no FT8-business, I am sure I had
> worked at least 20.One day there was a 4 hours opening to all over USA
> ,east to west, and I worked 25 stations in 4 hours. IF it had been before
> all of
> these Hams were on FT8 ,I had worked 100……...
>
> Kind regards
>
> SM6CVX   ( Since 1961 )   Hans
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>


-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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