Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
everyone would be calling. Forget the 6 in this specific case...it's the incessant calling -- by some who participate on this list -- that has to stop. The post will not stop the problem but if it starts to mitigate the problem, we'll all be better off. If no one says anything, it will never get better. None of us should call when we hear the DX station specify a restricted response and we do not fit. I doubt, however, that anyone but the DX operator can change the common policy of calling out of restriction. The moment a DX station works just one out-of-request call, it sends the message to ignore the restriction. We all know this stuff. Like DXCC and other things, we just like to complain about the other guy. We are just a bunch of cranky old men. :) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
I agree with Tom--that calling out of turn is one of the least damaging mistakes we can make in a pileup. 25 Hz filters can often take care of the problem. But here's the rub...the guys who zero-beat the DX station make it a lot more difficult to separate them from the DX. Isn't there a rule-of-thumb somewhere that says "Never zero-beat the station you're calling?" And BTW, I'd raise my hand with all the others who've made both of these mistakes. Brad KV5V _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Hi Guys, We're all flogging a dead horse here---enough already. People do make mistakes---did anyone not read Jon's (AA1K) "...confessional" here earlier?---s**t happens. Get over it. I really am amazed at the "herd mentality" displayed by people, assembling to viciously & ceaselessly attack any one individual for a perceived "faux pas": years ago I was afflicted with a dilemma that I was really & truly wrestling to understand, and to correct---KEY CLICKS, to be exact... I endured countless anonymous transmissions of "KLIX" directed my way at the end of my transmissions, and the gang had a gay ol' time lambasting me on the chat room over my perceived selfishness, and insolence...and all this, DESPITE my repeated please for guidance / help / advice / ANYTHING as to how I might correct my situation, and in so doing not be a continued nuisance to others on 160... But just how many of the resident self-styled experts and gurus stepped forward to assist me...? NONE. Only ONE GUY kindly stepped forward to critically assess my keying, and to give me his experienced assessments---ONE. And he was hardly one of the "usual" blow-hard, opinionated members of the crowd. In fact, far from it. So if I have a personal bone to pick in all this melee, so be it. I will admit that I was probably one of the first to jump on top of "the accused" yesterday---but in light of other information that I learned of later, I apologized to the individual, and he graciously accepted it. So again, enough is enough: we ALL are capable of making mistakes, either through some fault of our own, or by the "direction" of others---but remember, this IS supposed to be, after all, "The Gentleman's Band," and gentlemen aren't supposed to harbour grudges. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
The lynch mob is clearly out to get KK6ZM when he apparently did NOTHING WRONG. The mob is yelling 'crucify him', 'crucify him'. It began with a biased post that failed to see the whole picture and the mob ran with it. Some of the posts have displayed a surprising level of ignorance to the events. Yet the mob wishes to ignore the facts. One said "I'm glad Milt posted what he did". Wrong - that should NEVER have been posted in it's form. Another said "This is not a capital offense...". Wrong - In the situation it was NOT an offence at all. Another said "He made a mistake." Wrong - he did NOT make a mistake. He was following the operators implied instructions when calling for JA and working stateside instead. Another said "no chance he'll make that mistake again." Wrong - he did NOT make a mistake. And this from someone who could be a mob leader "as a matter of courtesy i sent KK6ZM a personal email suggesting that his behavior was totally wrong when calling K1N and that an apology on the topband reflector would be in order." I could go on but I have made my point. Tom, like you, I find this whole mess unsportsmanlike. People taking their inner hate out on someone who did nothing wrong. People's nature has not changed in thousands of years. All this in a hobby that is supposed to be fun. You mobsters make me sick. Doug -Original Message- Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Herb, That is NOT the case. I sat here with the K1N transmissions in one ear and the requested JA call-in frequency playing in the other ear. There were at a minimum 20 JA stations calling. They were hearing K1N well enough that their transmissions were right in step with K1N. I personally heard 2 separate complete Qs between K1N and JA stations. I personally heard K1N get partials on two or three other JA stations but was unable to complete the contacts. It was during this period of time that the K1N operator specifically asked the aforementioned station, by call sign prefix, to PSE STDBY FOR JA. As for a significant JA opening; IMHO any opening is significant for the DX operator AND the folks at the other end of a difficult path. I am positive the K1N operators feel the same. That is what Topband is all about. I know, because I was in that position at XZ1N, XZ0A, and VP6DX. It doesn't matter if it is only one or two stations that make it. The effort is expended and the reward is highly prized. That is why the DXpedition is there. Instead of putting 5 or 6 call signs in the log, the rate drops to one every 3-4-5 minutes as necessary. That is what makes a Topband DXpedition successful. IMHO possibly 2-3 contacts, perhaps more, with JA were interrupted by the deliberate refusal to standby. Additionally, without the benefit of staying on Navassa for a full lunar cycle the odds of getting a true -- SIGNIFICANT -- opening to JA and the deep Pacific are only about 30%. Every single opportunity to put a few JA and other Asians in the log must be exploited to the max. That is what the K1N operator was attempting to do. Again, my experience at XZ0A shows how important this SOP should be for DX operators. We spent 4 weeks on the island and it was the VERY LAST NIGHT that finally produced the magnificent opening to North America. In this case with K1N, the NA stations are going to have a great opportunity EVERY NIGHT! There is not, and there was not, any need for the action that took place yesterday morning. 73 for now de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: Herbert Schoenbohm Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 6:49 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers Also it was doubtful there was actually a significant JA opening to K1N. IMHO the buzz of JA activity could have occurred by a remote JA station heard in the Midwest at 599 plus 10db who apparently got in the log, but not from Japan. But other observers heard JA's calling but it was also obvious there was no opening to speak of. CUT Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4281/9056 - Release Date: 02/04/15 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
On 2/4/2015 8:06 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. The point is not to make a whipping boy out of a specific person but rather to point out the fact that specifically choosing to ignore the instructions of the DX operator is not good or proper operating or etiquette. One guy chose to do that feeling justified by the fact that K1N was not responding to JA callers. If everyone did the same thing, everyone would be calling. Forget the 6 in this specific case...it's the incessant calling -- by some who participate on this list -- that has to stop. The post will not stop the problem but if it starts to mitigate the problem, we'll all be better off. If no one says anything, it will never get better. 73, Greg-N4CC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Well said Tom. Also it was doubtful there was actually a significant JA opening to K1N. IMHO the buzz of JA activity could have occurred by a remote JA station heard in the Midwest at 599 plus 10db who apparently got in the log, but not from Japan. But other observers heard JA's calling but it was also obvious there was no opening to speak of. George AA7JV was not on the island yet due to bad sea conditions. He was chosen as the weak signal guru and made careful planning to even put up SW Beverages to bring in JA's if that wonderful skew path exists like it did for me last month. With the TX antenna, an inverted Vee at 160 feet ABG this was most likely the RX antenna as well. I believe that anyone having difficulties will see improvements when the better RX are in place. I would add that if Geroge (AA7JV) can't do it it would seem hard pressed to find someone who could. K1N had a very good early TB opening to Europe last night and at least 60 got in the log, probably more as I stopped counting. The EU S/R was a different story. The good news is that everyone will have multiple chances of working KP1 on TB. The bad news is that the public flogging had to take place out of one brother amateur for a common occurrence. Now what happens if he is the TB operator from PRNK when they open up? You better hope he hasn't kept a list of all those that "doth protest to much." Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 2/4/2015 9:06 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Calling out of turn not only is one of the least damaging things and most common things someone might do. As a matter of fact, assuming the DX stations has a reasonable bandwidth CW filter, out of turn calling is thousands of times less disruptive to others than transmitting on the DX station's frequency, or spreading a pile up over 15-20 kHz. I doubt making a whipping boy out of someone in public will have any effect on the other 250,000 people who have done it at least once. A simple email direct to the person would have been more reasonable than a public two day flogging. Are we getting cranking and set in our ways, or what? :) 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
Well said. I'm glad Milt posted what he did, but I'm tired of hearing all of this complaining. Ham radio is supposed to be fun. Let's choose happiness, instead of continually hitting the 're-play' button so we can stay mired in the unchangeable past. BTW, K1N was almost S9 here at 4 AM local time! :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 5:45 AM, John Harden, D.M.D. wrote: > I hold no malice against KK6ZM whatsoever!! After all this is only a > hobby... This is not a capital offense... Let's move on from this nonsense.. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] Re: Out-of-Turn Callers
I hold no malice against KK6ZM whatsoever!! After all this is only a hobby. Several years ago I was laying the pipe on 80 CW chasing a rare one with marginal copy.. I got an e-mail from a DXer saying that I was calling out of turn. I could have replied with a standard military FOXTROT UNITED but I did not. I simply said that in the heat of battle one sometimes forgets.. This is not a capital offense... Let's move on from this nonsense.. Many decades ago Buck Joyner (W4TO, SK about 1970) was on 20 AM. A DXer came in and said "W4TO, you are wide"... Buck came back and said "I'm not wide, I'm just loud" with that pair of 4-1,000A's!!! 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) On 2/3/2015 5:30 PM, Bill and Liz wrote: Perhaps the REAL problem began with the guys in the chat room urging him on when common sense would have dictated that he refrain from transmitting until K1N cleared the field for NA callers. I had my gut full of chat rooms when a topband friend was flamed morning after morning on the ON_by a few "topband gurus". Perhaps this same crew urged KK6ZM on to call when he did when he otherwise might have waited. Too bad he was pilloried on the reflectorhe was only one of several who were guilty of a multitude of "offenses" last night and this morning. Bill VE3CSK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
