Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
Yes. On 3/21/2017 9:54 AM, Pete Rimmel N8PR wrote: I keep reading about all the WSPR and other low power modes where one person was heard all around the world. Well, maybe on a given night that can happen. -23 on JT65 is 10 dB below the threshold where a CW signal can be copied by ear... and I see many signals on JT65/JT9 at that level into my excellent receive antennas – EVERY night... HOWEVER, when a DXpedition goes to a rare location, they do not get to pick their location that has S-0 or S-1 noise level, and they do not get to complain to the local Power company to get the power line noise within 5 miles eliminated before they operate. They rarely if ever have 1000 foot beverages in 8 directions, or K9AY loops in 4 directions or a Waller Flag at 120 feet up in the air. Therefore, they limit themselves as to what they can hear. THEREFORE, we must use more than 20 watts to be heard, if no one else is calling, and more than 100 watts if there is a pile up, to stand out from the crowd. We cannot pick the one night in 30 that has the best propagation to that location, and hope that the DXpedition will be on at OUR sunrise/sunset to get the gray line boost. Why is this debate continuing? We must go with the conditions dealt to us on a given night/morning, when the DX does happen to appear. We must hope that we can hear them, and hope that they can hear us no matter what power we are running... and they are running. The propagation gods are fickle at best. All of you who are low power proponents, PLEASE keep running 20 watts... that way I can work them with my 1.5 KW and won’t have you QRMing me. And I will be quickly out of your way ! And for those of you who suggest the FCC says don’t use that much power, let me run 1.5 KW and make the contact and then while others wait, I will ask the DX if I should decrease power to say 73 to him. Happy DXing what ever your flavor... 73, PeteR N8PR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: JT65 on 160
I keep reading about all the WSPR and other low power modes where one person was heard all around the world. Well, maybe on a given night that can happen. -23 on JT65 is 10 dB below the threshold where a CW signal can be copied by ear... and I see many signals on JT65/JT9 at that level into my excellent receive antennas – EVERY night... HOWEVER, when a DXpedition goes to a rare location, they do not get to pick their location that has S-0 or S-1 noise level, and they do not get to complain to the local Power company to get the power line noise within 5 miles eliminated before they operate. They rarely if ever have 1000 foot beverages in 8 directions, or K9AY loops in 4 directions or a Waller Flag at 120 feet up in the air. Therefore, they limit themselves as to what they can hear. THEREFORE, we must use more than 20 watts to be heard, if no one else is calling, and more than 100 watts if there is a pile up, to stand out from the crowd. We cannot pick the one night in 30 that has the best propagation to that location, and hope that the DXpedition will be on at OUR sunrise/sunset to get the gray line boost. Why is this debate continuing? We must go with the conditions dealt to us on a given night/morning, when the DX does happen to appear. We must hope that we can hear them, and hope that they can hear us no matter what power we are running... and they are running. The propagation gods are fickle at best. All of you who are low power proponents, PLEASE keep running 20 watts... that way I can work them with my 1.5 KW and won’t have you QRMing me. And I will be quickly out of your way ! And for those of you who suggest the FCC says don’t use that much power, let me run 1.5 KW and make the contact and then while others wait, I will ask the DX if I should decrease power to say 73 to him. Happy DXing what ever your flavor... 73, PeteR N8PR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
I too am using something similar, if not less effective, a Butternut HF 2v with a homebrew TBR160 coil installed on a pushup mast 25 feet from terrace (2nd floor) level, with 2 radials for 80 and 40m squeezed into my tiny 1400 sq feet terrace perimeter sloping around. Max power I have is 100W. I have worked 34 and confirmed 28. Missed working 9n7ei :-( but worked s21. Infact have hearing s21zee s7 now. Living right in the heart of Indias 4th largest city - Chennai formerly Madras, noise is a big challenge. Elevating the vertical and the radials made a 2 S point reduction in noise level from S 9 to S 7 between 1 am and 6 am. Missed working Stewperry last year. as the alarm couldnt wake me up. Was too tired after finishing my first Olympic Triathlon on that saturday. Managed to work a few on CQ 160m. I was focussing my Night AIR time on 80 to reach my 80m DXCC and was on 160m only when there were no new DXCC entities in 80m as reported by pskreporter/hamspots.net Built a waller flag but since its in my radial field of the vertical it was not very effective. Have to convince my neighbour to let me install it in his terrace. One JA wanted VU2 very badly and we were trying for a QSO for days together on JT65. JAs can TX digital only above 1900 Khz and VU 160m allocation is 1820 - 1860. The butternut's 2:1 SWR bandwidth is just + - 4 Khz so Rxing above 1900 was a challenge inspite of using my IC7300's 2 pre amps. Then we decided to try CW and completed the QSO in 15 minutes. All we needed was on propagation wave peak :-) Moral of the story CW is more effective than JT65/JT9 on top band if you are CW capable. The only problem is the noise wears you out quickly. Max 1 - 2 hours. Max distance I was heard was VO1MP but we couldnt complete the QSO as he was running barefoot and so couldnt break thru my noise floor. Almost all who worked me were running QRO and had excellent RX antenna (mostly beverages) Currently contemplating building a Noise canceller as listed in http://www.g8jnj.net/rfnoisecancellation.htm Apparently the MFJ Noise canceller and DX Engineering Noise cancellers are all extensions of this design. Perhaps its a bit late as summer is already hear. Any one wants skeds please email me. 73 de Aravind vu2abs On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Mike DeChristopher < mfdechristop...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > One of the locals here is very into the JT -modes, almost exclusively > on topband. He uses 100W into a single Inv-L with two 1/4-wave radials > and nothing for RX. I think he's about halfway to 160 DXCC in a > calendar year and reports working everything he hears barefoot -- but > again, no RX antenna, so insert appropriately-sized grain of salt. > > As he is a college student, he is in a similar situation to the > rapidly growing number of hams with very little space and a rented QTH > or other restrictions. It is refreshing to see that particular > community excited about 160 and actively innovating -- even if it > creates a [hopefully temporary] gator or two along the way. > > The JT modes, especially WSPR, actually prove useful for us contesters > as well. In the weeks leading up to the event, they can give very > accurate and station-specific data similar to the RBN, but > occasionally in greater numbers on 160. I used WSPR for that purpose > ahead of most majors, but those digital modes make my old MP's smell > funny these days. > > 73 > Mike N1TA > > > > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Wes Stewart > wrote: > > The QRP guys will be miffed. > > > > > > On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote: > >> > >> If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give > me a > >> reason we should not use 1000 watts? > >> > >> Jim - KR9U > >> > > > > _ > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
Hi all, One of the locals here is very into the JT -modes, almost exclusively on topband. He uses 100W into a single Inv-L with two 1/4-wave radials and nothing for RX. I think he's about halfway to 160 DXCC in a calendar year and reports working everything he hears barefoot -- but again, no RX antenna, so insert appropriately-sized grain of salt. As he is a college student, he is in a similar situation to the rapidly growing number of hams with very little space and a rented QTH or other restrictions. It is refreshing to see that particular community excited about 160 and actively innovating -- even if it creates a [hopefully temporary] gator or two along the way. The JT modes, especially WSPR, actually prove useful for us contesters as well. In the weeks leading up to the event, they can give very accurate and station-specific data similar to the RBN, but occasionally in greater numbers on 160. I used WSPR for that purpose ahead of most majors, but those digital modes make my old MP's smell funny these days. 73 Mike N1TA On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Wes Stewart wrote: > The QRP guys will be miffed. > > > On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote: >> >> If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a >> reason we should not use 1000 watts? >> >> Jim - KR9U >> > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
The QRP guys will be miffed. On 3/17/2017 12:48 PM, James Wolf wrote: If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a reason we should not use 1000 watts? Jim - KR9U _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
BD0AAI is zone 23 and likes JT modes and cw. JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James Wolf Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 3:49 PM To: 'List-Topband' Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 on 160 If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a reason we should not use 1000 watts? Jim - KR9U _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
If I find someone on 160 in zone 23 that uses JT65/9 can someone give me a reason we should not use 1000 watts? Jim - KR9U _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
"Overloading everyone's RX front end" is not correct. The problem is that these narrow digital modes are received using the full bandwith of the SSB filter. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Mar 17, 2017 1:19 PM, "Wes Stewart" wrote: Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes? Why would the mode affect the abilities of a receiver? Wes N7WS On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote: > ...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX > front end and you will be the only one able to use the band. > _ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
Do you guys use lousy receivers for these modes? Why would the mode affect the abilities of a receiver? Wes N7WS On 3/17/2017 11:06 AM, Jim Jim wrote: ...if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only one able to use the band. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: JT65 on 160
Hello Jim and others for the replies Just getting information to do well and not disturb anyone. 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W 2017-03-17 15:06 GMT-03:00 Jim Jim : > Jorge, > I use only 35-50w on TB. A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls using only > 35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations > on CW only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over > 14db advantage over CW. Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode > that operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are > going to start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only > one able to use the band. I have seen one station on 40m ignored because > he was using high power when it was unnecessary. > > GL > > Jim > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > -- 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: JT65 on 160
Jorge, I use only 35-50w on TB. A few years ago I worked VKs and Zls using only 35watts then went down the band a bit and worked one of the same stations on CW only moments later BUT it took over 900w to do it. That is just over 14db advantage over CW. Two other things to remember 1. JT65 is a mode that operates at 100% duty cycle. and 2. if you use high power you are going to start overloading everyone RX front end and you will be the only one able to use the band. I have seen one station on 40m ignored because he was using high power when it was unnecessary. GL Jim _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband