Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
OMG... No one is mandating that you use FT8. If you don't like it, don't use it. End of Story. What is the big deal? This is sounding like your mother telling you to eat all your Grits before you leave the table. Mike va3mw On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:12 PM dj...@t-online.de wrote: > > Now its getting really silly > > > -Original-Nachricht----- > Betreff: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that > will kill the hobby.. > Datum: 2019-08-06T21:24:47+0200 > Von: "Lee. KX4TT via Topband" > An: "topband@contesting.com" > > OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who > knew > Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? > > > Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order > > Spark > CW > AM > SSB > FM > RTTY > Packet > Amtor > Pactor > Winlink > PSK31 > PSK63 > MSFK8 > MSFK16 > M-RTTY > EME > Computers > DXpeditions > Contesters > Holiday DXpeditions > Nets > OQRS > PayPal > Ebay > Ragchewers > Not enough computers > Windows > Linux > Android > MacOS > Lowband Operators > VHF operators > Satellite Operators > Microwave Operators > Parks on the Air > Islands on the Air > Summits on the Air > DXCC > WAS > VUCC > WAZ > ARRL > CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) > 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any > pushback)... > Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. > Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk > to > K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is > SK, but where's the fun in that?? > FCC > Appliance Operators > CB guys > QRP > QRO > Using Paddles > Using a straight Key > Using A Bug > Using A Bug as a Straight Key > Using a Keyer > QRM > QRN > DQRM - That one we should keep on the list > Kenwood > Yaesu > Icom > Elecraft > Tower Rules > JT65 > JT9 > FT8 > FT4 > K1JT > > > Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a > start!! > > > 73 de Lee KX4TT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
Now its getting really silly -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby.. Datum: 2019-08-06T21:24:47+0200 Von: "Lee. KX4TT via Topband" An: "topband@contesting.com" OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order Spark CW AM SSB FM RTTY Packet Amtor Pactor Winlink PSK31 PSK63 MSFK8 MSFK16 M-RTTY EME Computers DXpeditions Contesters Holiday DXpeditions Nets OQRS PayPal Ebay Ragchewers Not enough computers Windows Linux Android MacOS Lowband Operators VHF operators Satellite Operators Microwave Operators Parks on the Air Islands on the Air Summits on the Air DXCC WAS VUCC WAZ ARRL CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any pushback)... Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk to K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that?? FCC Appliance Operators CB guys QRP QRO Using Paddles Using a straight Key Using A Bug Using A Bug as a Straight Key Using a Keyer QRM QRN DQRM - That one we should keep on the list Kenwood Yaesu Icom Elecraft Tower Rules JT65 JT9 FT8 FT4 K1JT Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a start!! 73 de Lee KX4TT _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
> On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Dan Edward Dba East edwards > wrote: > > gosh, am I the only 'old timer' who actually LIKES ft 8 ?? it has put qso's > in my top band log when the band has been really crummy... > and yes, i can copy cw...when the band is actually open... > the jtAlert chat window can make the q's more personal, if desired... > 73 W5XZ, dan Dan - I’ve been licensed and active for 49 yrs so I guess I qualify as an “old timer” - but maybe not by some standards. I enjoy FT8, and also SSB, CW, RTTY, FM, etc.Thats the whole point - if you enjoy it don’t let others rain on your parade. This thread would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. 73 Phil NA4M -. .- ….- -- Phil Duff na4m[at]suddenlink[dot]net _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
gosh, am I the only 'old timer' who actually LIKES ft 8 ?? it has put qso's in my top band log when the band has been really crummy... and yes, i can copy cw...when the band is actually open... the jtAlert chat window can make the q's more personal, if desired... 73 W5XZ, dan On Tuesday, August 6, 2019, 02:41:46 PM CDT, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote: OK - A few more additions Lee DMR C4FM/System Fusion/Wires-X D-STAR EchoLink IRLP Remote Stations RemoteHams Remote Ham Radio Amplifiers Big Antennas Little Antennas OMs YLs XYLs Harmonics Sub-Harmonics Solid-State Tubes Integrated Circuits SDRs -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Tuesday, 6 August, 2019 15:26 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby.. Working by the numbers and Lists! On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote: > OK - I think I've got a good start on the > list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? > > > Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular > order > > Spark > CW > AM > SSB > FM > RTTY > Packet > Amtor > Pactor > Winlink > PSK31 > PSK63 > MSFK8 > MSFK16 > M-RTTY > EME > Computers > DXpeditions > Contesters > Holiday DXpeditions > Nets > OQRS > PayPal > Ebay > Ragchewers > Not enough computers > Windows > Linux > Android > MacOS > Lowband Operators > VHF operators > Satellite Operators > Microwave Operators > Parks on the Air > Islands on the Air > Summits on the Air > DXCC > WAS > VUCC > WAZ > ARRL > CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) > 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any > pushback)... > Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. > Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk > to > K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn > Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that?? > FCC > Appliance Operators > CB guys > QRP > QRO > Using Paddles > Using a straight Key > Using A Bug > Using A Bug as a Straight Key > Using a Keyer > QRM > QRN > DQRM - That one we should keep on the list > Kenwood > Yaesu > Icom > Elecraft > Tower Rules > JT65 > JT9 > FT8 > FT4 > K1JT > > > Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but > it's a start!! > > > 73 de Lee KX4TT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
OK - A few more additions Lee DMR C4FM/System Fusion/Wires-X D-STAR EchoLink IRLP Remote Stations RemoteHams Remote Ham Radio Amplifiers Big Antennas Little Antennas OMs YLs XYLs Harmonics Sub-Harmonics Solid-State Tubes Integrated Circuits SDRs -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett Sent: Tuesday, 6 August, 2019 15:26 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby.. Working by the numbers and Lists! On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote: > OK - I think I've got a good start on the > list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? > > > Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular > order > > Spark > CW > AM > SSB > FM > RTTY > Packet > Amtor > Pactor > Winlink > PSK31 > PSK63 > MSFK8 > MSFK16 > M-RTTY > EME > Computers > DXpeditions > Contesters > Holiday DXpeditions > Nets > OQRS > PayPal > Ebay > Ragchewers > Not enough computers > Windows > Linux > Android > MacOS > Lowband Operators > VHF operators > Satellite Operators > Microwave Operators > Parks on the Air > Islands on the Air > Summits on the Air > DXCC > WAS > VUCC > WAZ > ARRL > CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) > 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any > pushback)... > Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. > Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk > to > K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn > Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that?? > FCC > Appliance Operators > CB guys > QRP > QRO > Using Paddles > Using a straight Key > Using A Bug > Using A Bug as a Straight Key > Using a Keyer > QRM > QRN > DQRM - That one we should keep on the list > Kenwood > Yaesu > Icom > Elecraft > Tower Rules > JT65 > JT9 > FT8 > FT4 > K1JT > > > Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but > it's a start!! > > > 73 de Lee KX4TT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
Kevin, You are certainly welcome (as long as Tree allows ...) to post your views and opinions as anyone else. However, I don't agree with many of your statements as they do not represent my views or experiences. So please hold off on the "WE = everyone" bit please as I don't recall asking or giving permission for others to speak for me. QSL OM? A week ago folks were trying to shame others as to "Oh NO FT8 can't run automatically". (Wink Wink Nod Say No More). Reality is that dirty little secret is actually well known. Too late to control/prevent it. And as to the ARRL rule ... how would anyone know if they did or are working a real person on FT8, again too late now to control/prevent it. Along the line of what Jeff, K1ZM posted that upset Mike. Within the RTTY side there has been much concern as to the FCC (and with ARRL support?) changing the rules to allow even more unattended, encrypted communications. Much of that support seems to come from marine (think really non-amateur) ship/boat owners using ham bands as their way of communicating who knows what. And so now there are two fundamentally opposed camps on that possibility. Sure seems to be some similarity between that mode and FT8/FT? ... if so, are we about to see the 'battles of the robots' QRM on the bands? Right now there are posts on the CQ Contest forum as to FT4 being set to use 7047 .. roughly in the middle of the 40 CW band. It will be very interesting to see how that plays out next, hopefully in a positive way. Jerry, K4SAV once again is looking for verifiable information. Past posts on Top Band seems to indicate small changes as of ~1 dB might be enough to make/not make the QSO. What is the real repeatable difference on FTx? (and when if will FT4 make an appearance on the other bands ...) As others noted, the fad mode (it's how many years old?) no doubt has drawn much attention and activity for the short term. Seeing overall data and not just a limited view might (key word) moderate some of the excitement? So far we are seeing subjective pluses and minuses as to the risk and rewards. Where I do agree 100% with you is the W6AM book is an excellent shack item. B-) Recall my two concerns ... damage the hobby destroy personal relationships Billy, AA4NU > On August 6, 2019 at 2:00 PM kol...@rcn.com wrote: > > > "I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away > all efforts, challenge and personal touch." > > Read the W6AM book, get the West Coast DX bulletin compilation book and dig > back to your efforts in the '60s and '70s (if you were around). Even without > FT8, DXing is mega easier in the 21 Century than before. The "efforts, > challenge and personal touch" has been eroding for the last 30 years or so > and we GOT OVER IT! So why is FT8 suddenly the tipping point? It's just a > continuation of what was already going on for decades as technology unfolds. > > "I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for > ever in our hobby." > > Must not be very committed hams. Or old and tired... > > "The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT > 8 in mixed band dxcc:s. Make a special FT 8 award. That might help." > > Personally, I have no objection to this. But THIS is the move that will save > ham radio??? > > "And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8 25 > %.Fair ?" > > Why shouldn't the DXpeditioners and the Ham Radio "marketplace" decide? BTW, > whenever I have operated from DX QTH's, except for Phone DX contests, I work > CW. Personal preference. > > "I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much > fun,,,BEFORE" > > This actually makes me sad to read. I say, be happy and operate how you > prefer, let the others go their way. I try to never let what others choose to > do ruin my fun! > > I can be a cynical old coot, but I am still optimistic that Ham Radio will > continue to bring enjoyment to all who discover it whatever their interests. > I see young folks at the local Record Store still buying Vinyl records, > likewise I suspect some young folks will fall in love with CW and SSB (if we > let them). > > 73, Kevin K3OX > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
Working by the numbers and Lists! On 8/6/2019 1:24 PM, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote: OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order Spark CW AM SSB FM RTTY Packet Amtor Pactor Winlink PSK31 PSK63 MSFK8 MSFK16 M-RTTY EME Computers DXpeditions Contesters Holiday DXpeditions Nets OQRS PayPal Ebay Ragchewers Not enough computers Windows Linux Android MacOS Lowband Operators VHF operators Satellite Operators Microwave Operators Parks on the Air Islands on the Air Summits on the Air DXCC WAS VUCC WAZ ARRL CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any pushback)... Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk to K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that?? FCC Appliance Operators CB guys QRP QRO Using Paddles Using a straight Key Using A Bug Using A Bug as a Straight Key Using a Keyer QRM QRN DQRM - That one we should keep on the list Kenwood Yaesu Icom Elecraft Tower Rules JT65 JT9 FT8 FT4 K1JT Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a start!! 73 de Lee KX4TT _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed - AKA, things that will kill the hobby..................
OK - I think I've got a good start on the list..who knew Joe Taylor was the Antichrist?? Things that will kill the hobby.in no particular order Spark CW AM SSB FM RTTY Packet Amtor Pactor Winlink PSK31 PSK63 MSFK8 MSFK16 M-RTTY EME Computers DXpeditions Contesters Holiday DXpeditions Nets OQRS PayPal Ebay Ragchewers Not enough computers Windows Linux Android MacOS Lowband Operators VHF operators Satellite Operators Microwave Operators Parks on the Air Islands on the Air Summits on the Air DXCC WAS VUCC WAZ ARRL CQ Magazine (didn't want them to feel left out by ARRL on the list) 73 Magazine (everyone is SK, so we shouldn't get any pushback)... Propagation is not good enough - I can't hear people I want to talk to. Propagation is too good - I can hear people I don't want to talk to K1MAN - OK, we could remove this as the odious little man (Glenn Baxter) is SK, but where's the fun in that?? FCC Appliance Operators CB guys QRP QRO Using Paddles Using a straight Key Using A Bug Using A Bug as a Straight Key Using a Keyer QRM QRN DQRM - That one we should keep on the list Kenwood Yaesu Icom Elecraft Tower Rules JT65 JT9 FT8 FT4 K1JT Guys, it's probably not a complete list..but it's a start!! 73 de Lee KX4TT _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
"I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch." Read the W6AM book, get the West Coast DX bulletin compilation book and dig back to your efforts in the '60s and '70s (if you were around). Even without FT8, DXing is mega easier in the 21 Century than before. The "efforts, challenge and personal touch" has been eroding for the last 30 years or so and we GOT OVER IT! So why is FT8 suddenly the tipping point? It's just a continuation of what was already going on for decades as technology unfolds. "I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for ever in our hobby." Must not be very committed hams. Or old and tired... "The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 in mixed band dxcc:s. Make a special FT 8 award. That might help." Personally, I have no objection to this. But THIS is the move that will save ham radio??? "And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8 25 %.Fair ?" Why shouldn't the DXpeditioners and the Ham Radio "marketplace" decide? BTW, whenever I have operated from DX QTH's, except for Phone DX contests, I work CW. Personal preference. "I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE" This actually makes me sad to read. I say, be happy and operate how you prefer, let the others go their way. I try to never let what others choose to do ruin my fun! I can be a cynical old coot, but I am still optimistic that Ham Radio will continue to bring enjoyment to all who discover it whatever their interests. I see young folks at the local Record Store still buying Vinyl records, likewise I suspect some young folks will fall in love with CW and SSB (if we let them). 73, Kevin K3OX _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
My Heros Have Always Been Cowboys, CW Ops, and those big booming voices on AM and SSB. Listening to hams on 160 and 80 AM and distant BBC broadcasts hooked me at seven years old. ( Uncle's Korean Hallicrafters ). What will kids be thrilled to hear tomorrow ? Something dbs below the noise ? Nope. Don W4DNR since '62 Quoting Hans Hjelmström : THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
It doesn't bother me at all.. I would rather watch paint dry rather than operate FT8... I am CW man... Always have been.. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) On 8/6/2019 12:54 PM, Hans Hjelmstr??m wrote: THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %. I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch. I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for ever in our hobby. The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award. That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8 25 %.Fair ? As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in having my PC make these connections. We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams feeling the same, BUT answer from ARRL ( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it. Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to other activities. I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ?? And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will be the end of our hobby. Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,, Regards Hans SM6CVX 6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com: I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 160/FT8 issue. Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA DXpedition. I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying. From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and run station after station. The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ. Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an hour and not work anyone. Sad. The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a DXpedition is on. Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 160. Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a "Contact" in this manner. But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO. Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB did not take the Human out of the loop. First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make digital "contacts" Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside eventually also. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to commercial interests? How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of bandwidth is only being used? When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few characters a minute??? How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally only a few characters a minute? The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to work a new one". Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %. I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch. I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for ever in our hobby. The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award. That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8 25 %.Fair ? As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in having my PC make these connections. We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams feeling the same, BUT answer from ARRL ( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it. Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to other activities. I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ?? And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will be the end of our hobby. Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,, Regards Hans SM6CVX > 6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com: > > I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the > 160/FT8 issue. > Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA > DXpedition. > I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying. > > From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital > has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get > on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ > and run station after station. > > The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu > stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, > whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so > called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked > on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ. > Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to > make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ > for an hour and not work anyone. Sad. > > The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands > including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get > a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago > the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 > minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when > a DXpedition is on. > > Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on > 160. > > Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a > computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by > making a "Contact" in this manner. > > > But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in > the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is > totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the > DEATH OF HAM RADIO. > > Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! > SSB did not take the Human out of the loop. > > First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that > make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of > those things to make digital "contacts" > > Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big > towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside > eventually also. > > AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: > As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to > commercial interests? > > How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of > bandwidth is only being used? > > When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G > GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a > few characters a minute??? > > How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating > digitally only a few characters a minute? > > > The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy > way to work a new one". > > Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the > "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing > new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital modes. > So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to increas
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
I mostly agree with Dan. I think of the nights and mornings of no sleep, climbing towers in sub freezing wx to peak an antenna, hours and dollars spent to improve my signal, innovations tried often w/o success. When this history is compared to today’s mixed DXCC with FT8 I find it very discouraging. I have tried FT8 and find it something else to do in radio but it adulterates years of work. Might say I now live on an apartment with a very minimal station which does not affect my sentiments but very much affects my signal. For the record I have 375 countries and am on the #1 countries list. I do believe FT8 should be a separate category. Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> From: Topband on behalf of d...@np2j.com Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 12:32:59 PM To: TOPBAND@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 160/FT8 issue. Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA DXpedition. I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying. From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and run station after station. The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ. Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an hour and not work anyone. Sad. The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a DXpedition is on. Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 160. Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a "Contact" in this manner. But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO. Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB did not take the Human out of the loop. First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make digital "contacts" Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside eventually also. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to commercial interests? How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of bandwidth is only being used? When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few characters a minute??? How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally only a few characters a minute? The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to work a new one". Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital modes. So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to increase ones DXCC totals. The problem is these Digital mode "contacts" need to be separated from the mixed DXCC, the ARRL needs to step up and create a Digital only DXCC (Not RTTY). A separate Digital DXCC might stop the bleeding of CW/SSB activity, However I don't think the ARRL will do this as it makes too much sense, and I am afraid it is too late anyway. Enjoy it while you can. _ Searchable Archives: https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contesting.com%2F_topband&data=02%7C01%7C%7C2e42d2d3f7af4cfc601c08d71a8bce6d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435a
Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 160/FT8 issue. Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA DXpedition. I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying. From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and run station after station. The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ. Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an hour and not work anyone. Sad. The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a DXpedition is on. Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 160. Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a "Contact" in this manner. But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO. Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB did not take the Human out of the loop. First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make digital "contacts" Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside eventually also. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to commercial interests? How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of bandwidth is only being used? When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few characters a minute??? How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally only a few characters a minute? The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to work a new one". Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, everyone is grabbing new ones the easy way, hence the shift in activity to Digital modes. So what motivates the FT8 activity is the desire to increase ones DXCC totals. The problem is these Digital mode "contacts" need to be separated from the mixed DXCC, the ARRL needs to step up and create a Digital only DXCC (Not RTTY). A separate Digital DXCC might stop the bleeding of CW/SSB activity, However I don't think the ARRL will do this as it makes too much sense, and I am afraid it is too late anyway. Enjoy it while you can. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
