Topband: 160 Meter Activity Night

[Mark - N5OT]

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Well, sorta, Tim. My Skimmer routinely reports signal-to-noise ratios of 
3-4 dB at band opening.  The real problem is that the majority of RBN 
nodes use non-directive antennas of one sort or another, and that many 
European QTHs have severe noise issues.  I have an 8-foot active 
vertical and an 18AVT, neither of which is much use for 160.  W3LPL, on 
the other hand, mixes the output from his entire suite of antennas, 
including an active 8-circle, I believe, and Beverages in the fall and 
winter.  I'm sure there are European RBN nodes that hear similarly well.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
http://reversebeacon.net,
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 8/26/2013 9:45 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote:

A skimmer in EU picking up my CQ means that conditions are really quite good. 
Skimmers only post to reversebeacon if signal is well above the noise. Humans 
can copy just fine under far more adverse conditions.

The skimmer is not there to replace our ears :-).

Tim N3QE

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:17 AM
To: Bill Cromwell; topband
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

Hi Bill,

You are right about the antennas on some RBN stations missing signals. I 
wouldn't mind running a 160m skimmer on the RBN myself here, perhaps somehow 
using all four directions my Beverage antennas simultaneously.
Maybe it would be too much trouble. In any case, I would need help with at 
least the software for doing that. I posted an inquiry at 
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,91114.0.html about just 
making that arrangement available through WebSDR; but if we could figure out 
how to do it, it might be nice to have all four directions available on the RBN 
(at least on 160). But I see problems doing that, such as duplicate posts to 
the RBN from the same signal picked up by different directions.

Sorry I misunderstood you. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Bill Cromwell  wrote:


Thanks. Yes..I thought everybody who knows what RBN is also knows that
the stations *automatically* post the information on the RBN server. I
thought I made an efficient use of words. I did make the call and was
not heard. I did see some activity on the RBN and I was able to hear
the North American stations that were posted there AND I heard one or
two that were NOT posted there. Do they call the receive stations
"skimmers"? I'm sure the skimmers are 'plagued' with the same noise
problems all of us face. And there is the matter of 'lobes' in the
antenna patterns - intentional or not. There are a lot of reasons why
skimmers might miss some signals. One of them is low power and another
could involve the antenna. It may not radiate well and it may not
radiate well in the direction of skimmers that could otherwise hear. Not all of 
the skimmers are on 160 meters.


_
Topband Reflector
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Topband Reflector



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Topband Reflector

Topband: 160 meter activity.

[Robert Briggs]

Comments noted regarding signal reports on 160 meters..I often give dx 
stations 599 reports, even plus 10 occasionally..The report is the 
reading indicated on the S meter on my receiver...S meters are just a 
relative indication of signal strength for the average ham and I doubt 
anyone is really going to bother much about the fine technicality's of 
day to day DX signal reports..


I have had years of experience listening to Topband noise and 
signals...On the whole average signals on a day to day basis with the 
band conducting will generally be above the qrn noise..If one is not 
watching an S meter many signals are perfect Q5 readability...If one had 
no meter to monitor signal strength then I guess that signal would be 
called 599...However one way or the other it isn't a point to get all up 
tight about...To go a bit further contester's and dxpedition's mostly 
always give a 599 report regardless for quick convenience...Rarely hear 
anyone complaining about that...


Bob..VK3ZL..


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Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Eugene Popov /RA0FF/]

 To use a preamplifier or not (in a signal estimation) it seems to me it is 
equivalent as to speak: to use the antenna for RX or not, to use radio or to 
listen shout by a throat from mountain...
I exaggerate. But our radio and its functions are created to help the operators.
I sometimes switch off a preamplifier on TOP, sometimes I switch on the 
amplifier on my Beverages. 
If on GP I do not hear DX, during too time on BV with the amplifier I will be 
copy signa S9 that what signal S I should give to this station?
More often my official report more conditional if I hear station more S6.

P.S. In ours QTH 160m still sleeps.
Yesterday on 80m was audible V31MA (S3-4)  which were heard by my signal 
unfortunately.


73! de Eugene RA0FF
http://dx.bgtelecom.ru
http://www.qsl.net/ra0ff/

Воскресенье, 25 августа 2013, 16:44 -07:00 от Bob Kupps :
>Well I applaud your making the effort at giving an "honest" report. It seems 
>to me that 599 is reported far too casually these days and I certainly attempt 
>to give "honest" reports even in a (non contest) pile up. Although R reports 
>are fairly easy - I give 3 if I'm struggling, 4 if I have to pay attention and 
>5 if it's easy. But S reports, especially on the low bands where we are often 
>using preamps, attenuators or both make an objective report a bit tougher.
>
>The other night I was chatting with my pal W6YA on 20. My 100 watts to a 5/5 
>stack always gets a better report on his K3 than his 1500W to a 4 el gets on 
>my K3 until he finally said that he always uses his preamp on the high bands 
>because the K3 S meter is factory calibrated with the preamp on, and he like I 
>strive to give meaningful reports.
>
>Anyway, I would be interested in how other ops (who care) try to give 
>meaningful reports - objective vs subjective. Also my compliments to N4ZR and 
>the RBN guys who are providing a great service to the ham DX community in this 
>regard.
>
>73 Bob HS0ZIA
>
>
>
> From: John Harden < jh...@bellsouth.net >
>To:  topband@contesting.com
>Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:17 PM
>Subject: Topband: 160 meter activity
> 
>
>160 is really picking up here.
>
>I called CQ on 1824.5 this morning here in Atlanta at 1030 Z. VK3ZL came 
>back to me with a 599 report and I gave him an honest 579. The band has 
>been open for some time at this QTH. However, the RX antenna is the Hi-Z 
>4-8 PRO, 8 vertical array (with 4 antennas active at any time). No doubt 
>I hear signals others cannot hear. I do HIGHLY recommend it..
>
>73,
>
>John, W4NU
>_
>Topband Reflector
>_
>Topband Reflector

_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Shoppa, Tim]

A skimmer in EU picking up my CQ means that conditions are really quite good. 
Skimmers only post to reversebeacon if signal is well above the noise. Humans 
can copy just fine under far more adverse conditions.

The skimmer is not there to replace our ears :-).

Tim N3QE

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters
Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:17 AM
To: Bill Cromwell; topband
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

Hi Bill,

You are right about the antennas on some RBN stations missing signals. I 
wouldn't mind running a 160m skimmer on the RBN myself here, perhaps somehow 
using all four directions my Beverage antennas simultaneously.
Maybe it would be too much trouble. In any case, I would need help with at 
least the software for doing that. I posted an inquiry at 
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,91114.0.html about just 
making that arrangement available through WebSDR; but if we could figure out 
how to do it, it might be nice to have all four directions available on the RBN 
(at least on 160). But I see problems doing that, such as duplicate posts to 
the RBN from the same signal picked up by different directions.

Sorry I misunderstood you. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Bill Cromwell  wrote:

>
> Thanks. Yes..I thought everybody who knows what RBN is also knows that 
> the stations *automatically* post the information on the RBN server. I 
> thought I made an efficient use of words. I did make the call and was 
> not heard. I did see some activity on the RBN and I was able to hear 
> the North American stations that were posted there AND I heard one or 
> two that were NOT posted there. Do they call the receive stations 
> "skimmers"? I'm sure the skimmers are 'plagued' with the same noise 
> problems all of us face. And there is the matter of 'lobes' in the 
> antenna patterns - intentional or not. There are a lot of reasons why 
> skimmers might miss some signals. One of them is low power and another 
> could involve the antenna. It may not radiate well and it may not 
> radiate well in the direction of skimmers that could otherwise hear. Not all 
> of the skimmers are on 160 meters.
>
_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Mike Waters]

Hi Bill,

You are right about the antennas on some RBN stations missing signals. I
wouldn't mind running a 160m skimmer on the RBN myself here, perhaps
somehow using all four directions my Beverage antennas simultaneously.
Maybe it would be too much trouble. In any case, I would need help with at
least the software for doing that. I posted an inquiry at
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,91114.0.html about just
making that arrangement available through WebSDR; but if we could figure
out how to do it, it might be nice to have all four directions available on
the RBN (at least on 160). But I see problems doing that, such as duplicate
posts to the RBN from the same signal picked up by different directions.

Sorry I misunderstood you. :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Bill Cromwell  wrote:

>
> Thanks. Yes..I thought everybody who knows what RBN is also knows that the
> stations *automatically* post the information on the RBN server. I thought
> I made an efficient use of words. I did make the call and was not heard. I
> did see some activity on the RBN and I was able to hear the North American
> stations that were posted there AND I heard one or two that were NOT posted
> there. Do they call the receive stations "skimmers"? I'm sure the skimmers
> are 'plagued' with the same noise problems all of us face. And there is the
> matter of 'lobes' in the antenna patterns - intentional or not. There are a
> lot of reasons why skimmers might miss some signals. One of them is low
> power and another could involve the antenna. It may not radiate well and it
> may not radiate well in the direction of skimmers that could otherwise
> hear. Not all of the skimmers are on 160 meters.
>
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Bill Cromwell]

On 08/26/2013 12:26 AM, Mike Waters wrote:

Bill,

The stations on the RBN are automatic, and work even when unattended. 
They are not like the DX clusters which require a manual post. Call CQ 
and see. :-)


73, Mike
www.w0btu.com 

Hi Mike,

Thanks. Yes..I thought everybody who knows what RBN is also knows that 
the stations *automatically* post the information on the RBN server. I 
thought I made an efficient use of words. I did make the call and was 
not heard. I did see some activity on the RBN and I was able to hear the 
North American stations that were posted there AND I heard one or two 
that were NOT posted there. Do they call the receive stations 
"skimmers"? I'm sure the skimmers are 'plagued' with the same noise 
problems all of us face. And there is the matter of 'lobes' in the 
antenna patterns - intentional or not. There are a lot of reasons why 
skimmers might miss some signals. One of them is low power and another 
could involve the antenna. It may not radiate well and it may not 
radiate well in the direction of skimmers that could otherwise hear. Not 
all of the skimmers are on 160 meters.


I hope to be be doing some more serious antenna work before snow. I do 
sometimes get heard and pretty much always - on the other bands with 
that antenna. Meanwhile I will keep trying. Puzzle pieces keep falling 
into place. I discovered a 'bad' patch cord in the station. It was 
obvious instantly when I put it in the antenna circuit. As Tim the 
ToolMan Allen says - Oy?


73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Mike Waters]

Bill,

The stations on the RBN are automatic, and work even when unattended. They
are not like the DX clusters which require a manual post. Call CQ and see.
:-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Bill Cromwell wrote:

> The next thing for me to do is call CQ and see who answers or posts to RBN.
>
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Bill Cromwell]

Hi,

Tonight 11 PM eastern time - 3 AM Z - I have been scanning 1800 to 1835 
kc. The way that works I should 'sweeping' and not scanning. Of course 
sometimes I am away from the radio but I did a station calling CQ DX. I 
looked at RBN and I noticed there weren't very many station heard by 
them. There was a British ham heard by European RBN receivers but not by 
any North Americans. There were several North American stations that 
were heard North American monitors but not by an European stations. The 
only one that was logged by RBN while I was near the radio is the 
station that I heard loud and clear. So my radio ain't broke.


One station was calling at 1845 kc so I extended the upper end of my 
sweep to 1846 kc. I see a lot  more activity on 80 and 40 meters.


The next thing for me to do is call CQ and see who answers or posts to RBN.

73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Bill Cromwell]

On 08/25/2013 07:44 PM, Bob Kupps wrote:

Well I applaud your making the effort at giving an "honest" report. It seems to me that 
599 is reported far too casually these days and I certainly attempt to give "honest" 
reports even in a (non contest) pile up. Although R reports are fairly easy - I give 3 if I'm 
struggling, 4 if I have to pay attention and 5 if it's easy. But S reports, especially on the low 
bands where we are often using preamps, attenuators or both make an objective report a bit tougher.

The other night I was chatting with my pal W6YA on 20. My 100 watts to a 5/5 
stack always gets a better report on his K3 than his 1500W to a 4 el gets on my 
K3 until he finally said that he always uses his preamp on the high bands 
because the K3 S meter is factory calibrated with the preamp on, and he like I 
strive to give meaningful reports.

Anyway, I would be interested in how other ops (who care) try to give 
meaningful reports - objective vs subjective. Also my compliments to N4ZR and 
the RBN guys who are providing a great service to the ham DX community in this 
regard.

73 Bob HS0ZIA

Hi There is idea that S9 is 50 microvolts at the antenna terminal - is 
that 50 ohms or? - and that is truly objective. However, I don't give 
the S-meters a lot of credence in that regard. And I have operated 
(still operate) teceivers that don't have an S-meter. There are winky 
blinky lights or anything. If I have an S-meter it gets a vote but my 
ears have the bigger say. With no S-meter my ears have ALL of the say.


I have actually heard on the air reports of S-0 (that's a zero). Huh? 
What! I thought tha guy was doing a good job copying a signal that 
didn't exist! We can give in to the canned QSO contest style and always 
give out 599 or we can just do our best with an *estimation* of signal 
strength. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


73,

Bill  KU8H
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Shoppa, Tim]

There is an "official S meter scale" based on microvolts at the antenna jack, 
50uV is S9. Objective S meter reading? When band noise is S9+20 on my transmit 
antenna, a "true" S9 signal wouldn't even be copied.

Of course on my RX antenna band noise is S1 and a strong EU signal is S5 to S6 
for real easy copy.

Probably the reversebeacon style Signal to Noise would be most fair but even 
that will mostly depend on relative local noise.

Tim N3QE

- Original Message -
From: Bob Kupps [mailto:n...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 07:44 PM
To: topband 
Subject: Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

Well I applaud your making the effort at giving an "honest" report. It seems to 
me that 599 is reported far too casually these days and I certainly attempt to 
give "honest" reports even in a (non contest) pile up. Although R reports are 
fairly easy - I give 3 if I'm struggling, 4 if I have to pay attention and 5 if 
it's easy. But S reports, especially on the low bands where we are often using 
preamps, attenuators or both make an objective report a bit tougher.

The other night I was chatting with my pal W6YA on 20. My 100 watts to a 5/5 
stack always gets a better report on his K3 than his 1500W to a 4 el gets on my 
K3 until he finally said that he always uses his preamp on the high bands 
because the K3 S meter is factory calibrated with the preamp on, and he like I 
strive to give meaningful reports.

Anyway, I would be interested in how other ops (who care) try to give 
meaningful reports - objective vs subjective. Also my compliments to N4ZR and 
the RBN guys who are providing a great service to the ham DX community in this 
regard.

73 Bob HS0ZIA



 From: John Harden 
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:17 PM
Subject: Topband: 160 meter activity
 

160 is really picking up here.

I called CQ on 1824.5 this morning here in Atlanta at 1030 Z. VK3ZL came 
back to me with a 599 report and I gave him an honest 579. The band has 
been open for some time at this QTH. However, the RX antenna is the Hi-Z 
4-8 PRO, 8 vertical array (with 4 antennas active at any time). No doubt 
I hear signals others cannot hear. I do HIGHLY recommend it..

73,

John, W4NU
_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: 160 meter activity

[Bob Kupps]

Well I applaud your making the effort at giving an "honest" report. It seems to 
me that 599 is reported far too casually these days and I certainly attempt to 
give "honest" reports even in a (non contest) pile up. Although R reports are 
fairly easy - I give 3 if I'm struggling, 4 if I have to pay attention and 5 if 
it's easy. But S reports, especially on the low bands where we are often using 
preamps, attenuators or both make an objective report a bit tougher.

The other night I was chatting with my pal W6YA on 20. My 100 watts to a 5/5 
stack always gets a better report on his K3 than his 1500W to a 4 el gets on my 
K3 until he finally said that he always uses his preamp on the high bands 
because the K3 S meter is factory calibrated with the preamp on, and he like I 
strive to give meaningful reports.

Anyway, I would be interested in how other ops (who care) try to give 
meaningful reports - objective vs subjective. Also my compliments to N4ZR and 
the RBN guys who are providing a great service to the ham DX community in this 
regard.

73 Bob HS0ZIA



 From: John Harden 
To: topband@contesting.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:17 PM
Subject: Topband: 160 meter activity
 

160 is really picking up here.

I called CQ on 1824.5 this morning here in Atlanta at 1030 Z. VK3ZL came 
back to me with a 599 report and I gave him an honest 579. The band has 
been open for some time at this QTH. However, the RX antenna is the Hi-Z 
4-8 PRO, 8 vertical array (with 4 antennas active at any time). No doubt 
I hear signals others cannot hear. I do HIGHLY recommend it..

73,

John, W4NU
_
Topband Reflector
_
Topband Reflector

Topband: 160 meter activity

[John Harden]

160 is really picking up here.

I called CQ on 1824.5 this morning here in Atlanta at 1030 Z. VK3ZL came 
back to me with a 599 report and I gave him an honest 579. The band has 
been open for some time at this QTH. However, the RX antenna is the Hi-Z 
4-8 PRO, 8 vertical array (with 4 antennas active at any time). No doubt 
I hear signals others cannot hear. I do HIGHLY recommend it..


73,

John, W4NU
_
Topband Reflector