Re: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
Thanks Clive! I did a F/B test towards the TX ant and the F/B is indeed 5 db less. I may need to think of that solution. 73 Ash 3V8SF -- Original Message -- From: "Clive GM3POI" To: "Ashraf Chaabane" Sent: 02/03/2019 12:32:02 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Ash, model it when the RX antenna is pointing at the TX antenna. There is a good chance it will affect the pattern, but lifting the base of the TX antenna above ground with a relay when on RX will cure that. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Ashraf Chaabane [mailto:ash.kf5...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 March 2019 10:57 To: Clive GM3POI; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re[2]: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Clive, The vertical is 130m away from the array center. I'm presuming this is a good distance to avoid interaction. 73 Ash 3V8SF -- Original Message -- From: "Clive GM3POI" To: "Ashraf Chaabane" ; topband@contesting.com Sent: 02/03/2019 11:54:48 Subject: RE: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Ash model in also your TX antenna and see whether you need to isolate that vertical on RX with a relay. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: 02 March 2019 10:46 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
> The vertical is 130m away from the array center. Ash, at less than 1 wavelength the TX antenna is still within the near field and can most certainly impact the receiving array. The real questions are how much does it impact the shortened verticals (pattern impact) and how much noise does it radiate because it is resonant. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2019-03-02 5:56 AM, Ashraf Chaabane wrote: Clive, The vertical is 130m away from the array center. I'm presuming this is a good distance to avoid interaction. 73 Ash 3V8SF -- Original Message -- From: "Clive GM3POI" To: "Ashraf Chaabane" ; topband@contesting.com Sent: 02/03/2019 11:54:48 Subject: RE: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Ash model in also your TX antenna and see whether you need to isolate that vertical on RX with a relay. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: 02 March 2019 10:46 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
Ash model in also your TX antenna and see whether you need to isolate that vertical on RX with a relay. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: 02 March 2019 10:46 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
Clive, The vertical is 130m away from the array center. I'm presuming this is a good distance to avoid interaction. 73 Ash 3V8SF -- Original Message -- From: "Clive GM3POI" To: "Ashraf Chaabane" ; topband@contesting.com Sent: 02/03/2019 11:54:48 Subject: RE: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Ash model in also your TX antenna and see whether you need to isolate that vertical on RX with a relay. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: 02 March 2019 10:46 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: 4 Square Receiving at 3V8SF
Hi guys, I built a 4 Square Receiving Array for 160m at 3V8SF. I put details in my website: http://kf5eyy.info/topband.htm The achieved F/B so far is 20 db and the F/S is 19 db. There is still room for improvement with better matching of the elements. I'll need time to do that. Thanks to Ahmad 3V1B and Majdi 3V1M for helping me setting up of the elements. Also to K7TJR, W3LPL and W0FLS for the valuable support. 73 Ash 3V8SF, 3V8SS www.kf5eyy.info _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 4-square antenna spacing
Jim, you need ON4UN's 5th edition of "Low Band Dxing" page 11-93 talks about the 4 square with 1/8 wave spacing. He says, regarding the 1/8 wave spacing (67 feet +/-) - gain is down 1.3 db compared to 1/4 wave spacing. - directivity is as good or better than 1/4 wave. - has much narrower bandwith than 1/4 wave - is harder to feed than 1/4 wave. He covers the 1/4 wave 4 square in detail and may cover tweeking the spacing. Get that book if you don't already have it. Ed KG4W On 6/14/2018 2:57 PM, Jim & Nan Denneny wrote: Manual says min spacing for 160M is 54ft and optimal spacing is 135ft. 135ft is a non-starter for my lot. Can anyone comment on performance degradation between these two extremes? Minimal? Substantial? Sensitivity? f/b? I cannot find experimental data. Jim K7EG Sent from Mail for Windows 10 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 4-square antenna spacing
Manual says min spacing for 160M is 54ft and optimal spacing is 135ft. 135ft is a non-starter for my lot. Can anyone comment on performance degradation between these two extremes? Minimal? Substantial? Sensitivity? f/b? I cannot find experimental data. Jim K7EG Sent from Mail for Windows 10 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 4 square
Used both the 4 square and 8 circle array by DX Engineering. Both work but, in my thunderstorm environment, I spent many hours and as many dollars as the systems originally cost repairing them over three seasons. This is despite keeping the systems powered off, except when being used. The guys at DXE said doing so would protect the systems. Unfortunately that proved not to be the case at my middle Tennessee qth. Steve, NN4T Sent from my iPhone _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 4 square
> Even so the odd Dec/Jan thunderstorm can cause a problem so I have a supply > of 450 ohm resistors of the type recommended on this reflector, on hand for > quick repairs! The maintenance never ends! Steve, NN4T Get some gas tubes from Mouser. I use 652-2049-12-BT1LF. 62 cents each last time I ordered about a year ago. Any surges are shorted around the device (resistor or transformer). The gas tubes have no effect whatsoever on the normal operation. Simply connect one across your terminating resistor, and one across the fed end wouldn't hurt either. The maintenance won't end, but the maintenance due to lightning induced surges will. No, they won't protect against a direct hit on the Beverage, but then you would have to find the 500 feet of wire first ! Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 4 square
Used both the 4 square and 8 circle array by DX Engineering. Both work but, in my thunderstorm environment, I spent many hours and as many dollars as the systems originally cost repairing them over three seasons. This is despite keeping the systems powered off, except when being used. The guys at DXE said doing so would protect the systems. Unfortunately that proved not to be the case at my middle Tennessee qth. Steve, NN4T Whoever said that probably had good intentions, but unfortunately that is false. No matter where you are located, off or on makes an immeasurable difference in likelihood of lightning damage. You really have to find out what is being damaged and where the ground loop causing the problem is your system. It should be curable to a large extent, but not by simply turning it off. That makes almost no difference for lightning. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: 4 square
Thanks Tim. I should have done my homework. Now I have 8 580’ terminated beverages with Array Solutions transformers and terminating resistors. They are quite robust but when the warmer, less stable weather comes I disconnect both ends of each antenna to protect the hardware. Even so the odd Dec/Jan thunderstorm can cause a problem so I have a supply of 450 ohm resistors of the type recommended on this reflector, on hand for quick repairs! The maintenance never ends! Steve, NN4T From: Tim Shoppa [mailto:tsho...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2016 8:47 AM To: Steve Daniel Subject: Re: Topband: 4 square The DX Engineering arrays use hi-impedance verticals that need a preamp. The preamp is especially susceptible to lightning damage and does not matter whether it is powered on or not. There are other 4-squares and 8-circles that use passive low-Z elements that do not use preamps and have no circuitry that is susceptible to lightning damage (although of course they can still be damaged by lightning.) W3LPL talks a little about the use of hi-z elements vs lo-z elements (he uses Low-Z elements) : http://www.contestuniversity.com/attachments/W3LPL_Receiving_Antennas_2014.pptx Tim N3QE On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Steve Daniel <n...@comcast.net> wrote: Used both the 4 square and 8 circle array by DX Engineering. Both work but, in my thunderstorm environment, I spent many hours and as many dollars as the systems originally cost repairing them over three seasons. This is despite keeping the systems powered off, except when being used. The guys at DXE said doing so would protect the systems. Unfortunately that proved not to be the case at my middle Tennessee qth. Steve, NN4T Sent from my iPhone _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: 4-square controllers
Does anybody have an opinion on the DX Engineering verses the Array Solutions 4 square controller? - Paul KW7Y _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
