Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
On 12/8/2011 8:22 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: > Hi Guys, > > If each& every one of the contributors (and there are many!) to this thread > about the 160-meter contest was to take pen& paper in hand& actually WRITE > to his/her representative on the ARRL Contest Committee---with a "cc" to the > committee chairman---I'm sure the numbers alone would make them sit up& > listen... > Eddy, I have been sending them (ARRL CAC) e mails for the last decade and only a few have replied with "we will look into it" but that is about it. There is something about the ARRL that they go into a bunker mode mindset when even friendly suggestions are made to improve on obvious structural contest mistakes. I am a member of the ARRL and that membership should at least allow access to the CAC. I wish their meetings would be transparent and we could present arguments in writing on agenda issues. IMHO that is the way an open organization is supposed to work. Again after 10 years of writing on this I have no idea if the matter of correcting the ARRL 160 meter contest problems was even discussed or voted on. In their January 2011 Annual Report the CAC did mention that improvements to the ARRL International DX Contest, "upon instructions from the PSC" (whatever that is) " by tasking the CAC to review the rules for possible improvement." I have no idea why the PSC (Programs and Service Committee) is another level of bureacracy needed to improve contests except that the PSC is made up entirely of ARRL Directors and ARRL staff. If it is true that the PSC "instructs" the CAC then the PSC needs to be informed of the obvious deficiency of the ARRL 160 Meter DX Contest. I will keep trying to contact CAC members but I don't hold out much hope they will even deal with this. And as they don't more and more Top Band regulars are deciding like myself not to participate anymore until they at least realize the issues on this contest are value ones to consider. 73, Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Lips on a PIG got it ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
On 2011-12-08, at 7:53 AM, Pete Smith wrote: > I'm not sure if WC1M reads this reflector, but a small suggestion - make > that "write to your ARRL Director", rather than the Contest *Advisory* > Committee. Hi Pete, By writing to your director, what can he do besides refer your note to the CAC...? That latter group has the final say, anyway---so why bother with "...a middle man"? He has other things to hold his attention, I'm sure... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
I'm not sure if WC1M reads this reflector, but a small suggestion - make that "write to your ARRL Director", rather than the Contest *Advisory* Committee. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 AND now at arcluster.reversebeacon.net port 7000 On 12/8/2011 7:22 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: > Hi Guys, > > If each& every one of the contributors (and there are many!) to this thread > about the 160-meter contest was to take pen& paper in hand& actually WRITE > to his/her representative on the ARRL Contest Committee---with a "cc" to the > committee chairman---I'm sure the numbers alone would make them sit up& > listen... > > Repeated past personal experience here has demonstrated to me that such > action really& truly CAN be effective. Even just a single, solitary letter > can get the powers-that-be to think along your lines, provided you've made a > strong enough argument for what it is that you might be arguing for. > > You have the ability to induce change, but only IF you communicate with the > proper persons...and like-minded numbers here certainly would help, rather > than hinder, your cause! > > ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Hi Guys, If each & every one of the contributors (and there are many!) to this thread about the 160-meter contest was to take pen & paper in hand & actually WRITE to his/her representative on the ARRL Contest Committee---with a "cc" to the committee chairman---I'm sure the numbers alone would make them sit up & listen... Repeated past personal experience here has demonstrated to me that such action really & truly CAN be effective. Even just a single, solitary letter can get the powers-that-be to think along your lines, provided you've made a strong enough argument for what it is that you might be arguing for. You have the ability to induce change, but only IF you communicate with the proper persons...and like-minded numbers here certainly would help, rather than hinder, your cause! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Clive, The only reason DX was added was that when the contest was decided upon W0DX (Bob Denniston) AKA VP2VI spent most of his time in BVI and was furious that he could not participate. So it was added, very poorly in the rules, as an afterthought to placate the ARRL president. USVI at the closest point is a few miles from BVI but the BVI station at least has a chance to get listed in the results. The U.S. Territories are relegated to second class participants. Last week on the second night I called CQ EU only in silent and obvious protest to the whole thing. I sent Jeff K1ZM, in reply to his well written opinion, an e mail and told him that he was trying to put lipstick on a pig (contest). Herb, KV4FZ On 12/7/2011 8:18 PM, Clive GM3POI wrote: > Hi Jeff, > That's the problem with the ARRL 160m from a European point of > view. Jeff you get 5 points for working me , I get two points for working > you, in the same Contest. A no brainer, which is why now although I hold > the EU record I do not bother with this one any more, with the exception of > the odd QSO. I cannot see a good reason for the points differential other > than bias, and to make it a domestic contest with an added bit of DX. > 73 Clive GM3POI > > > > > > === > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18850) > http://www.pctools.com/ > === > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
On 12/7/2011 6:15 PM, Jeff Blaine wrote: > The flavour of the comments seems to be distilled as - the rules make it so > we (west coast) cannot realistically win - so we may as > well not come and play. Huh? The problem, Jeff, is that we're not even in the same contest! Superb operators at super-stations out here get beat by a factor of 10:1 by equivalent operators and stations on the east coast. But more to the point -- the scoring rules cause east coast guys to not want to work us because we aren't worth the trouble as compared to working EU. 73, Jim K9YC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
>From a rookie and micro-pistol perspective, I don't understand the >sit-this-out thought process. The flavour of the comments seems to be distilled as - the rules make it so we (west coast) cannot realistically win - so we may as well not come and play. Huh? There are a lot of contests that favour by geography the east coast. Yet are strongly participated in by the west. And a guy operating from the right part of PJ or VE land has a HUGE geographic advantage to guys a few miles over the border, depending on the contest. Out here in the middle of the country, in the RF dead zone, I don't have much DX at my fingertips although the fantastic ears of FM5CD did manage to hear me Saturday. And having antennas in the functional, but otherwise pathetic category, I've got zero chance of winning this or any other 160m contest. Despite this, I do have a hell of a lot of fun participating though. And hope that my KS QSO was of help to some guy who may have a shot. Good for them. It did seem to me that the 6-land stations who were on last weekend were popular guys indeed. A lot more in demand than KS. One side effect of the lack of west participants seems to be pile ups on the ones that do participate. Sort of like the one WMA guy who had 'em stacked up a mile deep and 2 Khz wide. While a 6 won't win this contest, I don't know how many would be sending unanswered CQs. 73, Jeff ACØC www.ac0c.com -Original Message- From: Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:59 PM To: topband@contesting.com ; k...@aol.com Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments On 12/7/2011 1:50 PM, k...@aol.com wrote: > A contact is a contact in ARRL 160M - and I work everything I can hear and > then some (almost ESP sometimes). But some contacts are worth a lot more than others, and some of us have a lot more mults available to us than others, for equivalent effort. Here in CA, with really good antennas and high power, the best I can hope for from the Pacific basin is JA (5,000 miles), HL (5,500 miles), VK one mult for an entire continent that's larger than EU (6,000-8,000 miles), ZL (6,000 miles), UA0, one mult for a country larger than EU (4,000-5,500 miles), KH6 and KL7 (2,000 miles), and a few islands, all in the 4,000 -6,000 mile range. With good conditions, that's ten mults. EU from here is REALLY tough, and I haven't even HEARD EU this season. AF isn't quite as tough, but I haven't heard them either. The Caribbean can be tough from here too -- roughly twice the distance as from most of the east coast. As if that weren't enough, there is a MUCH higher population density within 500 miles of most east coast stations as compared to out here, which gives you guys a LOT more little pistols to work. The result of all of this tilt in the scoring to favor the east coast causes most serious west coast contesters to sit out contests like this one. I've entered high power for for ARRL 160 contests, have a decent antenna farm for both RX and TX, and have won SCV each time, but only because the serious guys who could kill me like K6RB, K6XX, N6TV, N3ZZ, don't want to be bothered with anything more than a few hours; the guys at W6YX haven't even bothered to put up serious 160M antennas. Indeed, I only did it myself for those four years to pick up states and countries. Since then, I've run Low Power for a year, then QRP this year. In about 4.5 hours I had worked everyone who could hear me -- 87 Qs in 24 sections, and I quit. Best DX was KH6 to the west, everything east as far as CO and NM, but WI and MN were the only ones east of there. WA, VE7, CO, and NM are 800 miles, and that was my limit. BUT -- how many Qs could I have made with a much less capable antenna farm with 5 watts from W3? So THAT'S why you don't hear much from the west coast during 160M contests. The Boring club has shown one far better way to score a contest with their Stew Perry, and there are other possible ways to do it. And until those who dominate the rule-making process accept the need to make changes, we're going to continue to sit it out. 73, Jim K9YC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
On 12/7/2011 1:50 PM, k...@aol.com wrote: > A contact is a contact in ARRL 160M - and I work everything I can hear and > then some (almost ESP sometimes). But some contacts are worth a lot more than others, and some of us have a lot more mults available to us than others, for equivalent effort. Here in CA, with really good antennas and high power, the best I can hope for from the Pacific basin is JA (5,000 miles), HL (5,500 miles), VK one mult for an entire continent that's larger than EU (6,000-8,000 miles), ZL (6,000 miles), UA0, one mult for a country larger than EU (4,000-5,500 miles), KH6 and KL7 (2,000 miles), and a few islands, all in the 4,000 -6,000 mile range. With good conditions, that's ten mults. EU from here is REALLY tough, and I haven't even HEARD EU this season. AF isn't quite as tough, but I haven't heard them either. The Caribbean can be tough from here too -- roughly twice the distance as from most of the east coast. As if that weren't enough, there is a MUCH higher population density within 500 miles of most east coast stations as compared to out here, which gives you guys a LOT more little pistols to work. The result of all of this tilt in the scoring to favor the east coast causes most serious west coast contesters to sit out contests like this one. I've entered high power for for ARRL 160 contests, have a decent antenna farm for both RX and TX, and have won SCV each time, but only because the serious guys who could kill me like K6RB, K6XX, N6TV, N3ZZ, don't want to be bothered with anything more than a few hours; the guys at W6YX haven't even bothered to put up serious 160M antennas. Indeed, I only did it myself for those four years to pick up states and countries. Since then, I've run Low Power for a year, then QRP this year. In about 4.5 hours I had worked everyone who could hear me -- 87 Qs in 24 sections, and I quit. Best DX was KH6 to the west, everything east as far as CO and NM, but WI and MN were the only ones east of there. WA, VE7, CO, and NM are 800 miles, and that was my limit. BUT -- how many Qs could I have made with a much less capable antenna farm with 5 watts from W3? So THAT'S why you don't hear much from the west coast during 160M contests. The Boring club has shown one far better way to score a contest with their Stew Perry, and there are other possible ways to do it. And until those who dominate the rule-making process accept the need to make changes, we're going to continue to sit it out. 73, Jim K9YC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Hi Jeff, That's the problem with the ARRL 160m from a European point of view. Jeff you get 5 points for working me , I get two points for working you, in the same Contest. A no brainer, which is why now although I hold the EU record I do not bother with this one any more, with the exception of the odd QSO. I cannot see a good reason for the points differential other than bias, and to make it a domestic contest with an added bit of DX. 73 Clive GM3POI -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of k...@aol.com Sent: 07 December 2011 21:50 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments Hi Gang I have been reading comments about this past weekend's ARRL 160M test and I wish to address some comments that I have seen regarding EAST COAST participants. Some of what I have read seems to suggest that we out here are not interested in beaming to and or working WEST COAST stations. I am troubled by this kind of thought because it runs counter to what this contest is all about. Basically, I will admit that working 5 point Europeans is very important out here - but in my case it has NEVER been at the expense of working stations out West. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18850) http://www.pctools.com/ === === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 9.0.0.888, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18850) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: ARRL 160M Test Comments
Hi Gang I have been reading comments about this past weekend's ARRL 160M test and I wish to address some comments that I have seen regarding EAST COAST participants. Some of what I have read seems to suggest that we out here are not interested in beaming to and or working WEST COAST stations. I am troubled by this kind of thought because it runs counter to what this contest is all about. Basically, I will admit that working 5 point Europeans is very important out here - but in my case it has NEVER been at the expense of working stations out West. I try to beam bidirectionally MOST of the time even when Europe is open out here and I try to put a significant footprint into the Pacific NW and Northern Cal area as much as I can. For example - It was not long after the start of the contest on Friday night - perhaps even before 2300z on Friday night - when K7KU or K7KY I think it was called me from WYOMING - and he was so loud (before his SS) - that I had to ask him WY?? WY?? - because he was so loud out here. As the evening wore on, as others have suggested, the West Coast stuff was well down here as compared to normal signal levels but I managed to work everything out that way EXCEPT SDG (which I never even heard), MS and SD - those latter two which came on Sat night. I worked all the guys out that way I could copy and I do have the ability to hear well down into the noise with directive RX listening antennas aimed at W6/W7. So guys, at least in MY CASE, I love to work you guys out there and I always beam at you even when I am trying to work Europe - so please do not think that this notion of not being interested in working USA stations out west applies here - as it does NOT. A contact is a contact in ARRL 160M - and I work everything I can hear and then some (almost ESP sometimes). For example, I just got an email from IV3AOL - Fulvio in Trieste - it helps soothe the soul I think. Fulvio told me that he had called me ALL LAST YEAR in ARRL 160M 2010 with NO QSO resulting - and that he was delighted to make a qso **this year** after calling ALL Friday night and then two hours or more on SAT night. You see, he was running 4w into an indoor antenna and yet when I managed to work him on a peak QSB fade, he was 559 or so around 0137z I think it was. I wrote back to Fulvio and said his qsl was on the way - it was his FIRST North American qso ever on Topband and he was thrilled - and he is not the only station from whom I get emails just like that. So the point here is that I think most guys out here are VERY INTERESTED in working anyone we can hear - especially from the WEST COAST - and I will always DIG and ask for repeats for as long as the calling station wishes to try. Sometimes, it does take 5-6 overs to complete a qso - but that's part of the game isn't it? I wish to thank especially all the W6 stations and W7 stations whom I was able to work on Friday night - yes, condx were AWFUL - yet I managed to work most of you on Friday night nonetheless and even more on Sat night when condx were better. There was NO sunrise opening here to the West Coast on Sunday AM - the band all but closed by 0800z on Sat night - and I never did even hear San Diego - I guess it was on but I never managed to find one of those guys. I also spend much of the second night TUNING for any new station I can hear - and I call anything that I have not worked as long as I can - until I determine they just cannot hear me calling - only then do I give up and move on Thanks for the calls and contacts and hope to CU again in CQ 160M CW in January. 73 and happy holidays and good Dx to all JEFF VY2ZM k...@aol.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
