Re: Topband: Contest conditions
I ran into a number of CQ loops. I figured they went to the head and decided to hold their Freq. Not cool. W0MU On 11/28/2016 3:45 PM, Tree wrote: I was also struck with one station who was calling lots of CQs with no answer - with the word "TEST" at the end about 10 WPM faster than the rest of the transmission. Nothing like changing your speed to help someone who is having a hard time hearing you figure out what is going on. :-) Reminds me of a story I have shared perhaps before... it's almost hard to believe this is true - but I was there. Back in about 1975 - when I was living with WB6VZI (now N6VI) I strung up a very low dipole on 160 meters and this is when VS6DO was pretty active. One station (I forget who) was having a tough time getting through the noise - and was going back and forth trying to get their callsign across. They got so determined - that they eventually sent their call phonetically - on CW!! Wow. The other morning - I had a weak JA call me - and I had all but one letter of their callsign. When they tried again - they sent the missing letter about 4 or 5 times - and quickly got in the log. There are good ways and bad ways to deal with noise. My personal experience is something in the mid 20's works pretty well for code speed - and certainly not sending at different speeds or superfluous information. Tree N6TR PS: Stew Perry is less than 3 weeks away!! On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Mike Waters wrote: Well, we can look forward to the ARRL 160 and the Stew Perry, where the average speed is considerably slower. 73 Mike www.w0btu.com One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 wpm, _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
Another possible cause of the "one-way-propagation" effect has to do with different arrival angles when using rx antennas. The low-angle response difference between a beverage and vertical (esp near salt water) can be very significant. At arrival angles below 10 degrees these differences can be up to 10db. Those using vertical rx arrays may have a more reciprocal response. Multiple rx antennas are always good. de steve ve6wz. On 2016-11-28, at 4:51 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote: > Hi Wes, > When I operate at KP2M there are times I am told we are loud on 160M, but I > just can't pull the signals out of the noise. When I am on higher bands I > will get comments why I can't hear them when we are loud on topband. I don't > know the answer to that. Sometimes I wonder if it is one way propagation, > although that probably is not true. We have two beverage antennas. But the > QRN down there is a killer many times. I hear folks calling but just can't > pull them through. > There is a difference when using the EU beverage over the US beverage. Until > EU sunrise use the EU beverage a lot. Then after the EU sunrise switch to > the US beverage. Although there are times we would be happy to work anyone > from anywhere. > For transmit using a FCP Inv-L. > > A BA on Topband. I can only wish up here in upstate NY. > > And I am a DXer. > > 73, > N2TK, Tony > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Wes > Stewart > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:47 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Contest conditions > > With a cloud-warmer antenna and only 500W in the bowels of southern Arizona > working anywhere is problematic, but to the east is worse, even at SS. > > I heard a lot of Caribbean contest stations with big signals but never could > work them. I think they are probably using directional RX antennas, but > just as likely is that these are contest ops, not weak-signal DXers. Many > of them probably are DXers in real life, but during a contest, they simply > don't want to dig for weak signals when there are big ones that are easier > to work. I'll probably get some guff for this, but that is my gut feeling. > > To the west is a different story, especially at, and after, SR. Saturday > morning my sunrise was at 1403Z. Just before that (1357Z) I managed a QSO > with some difficulty with BA4TB for a new one. A few minutes later he was > 579. I worked four JAs between 1405 and 1418, all with good signals. I had > worked JA3YBK earlier at 1225Z but I listened to him call CQ until 1445Z, 43 > minutes after sunrise. KH6J was still Q5 at 1452Z, 50 minutes after > sunrise. There was a Washington station, whose call escapes me, still > audible at 1455Z, nearly an hour past sunrise. Remarkable. > > Agreed on the Chinese stations. I listened to one buy on Sunday morning > calling CQ. He was sending a one-by-one and seemed to fade or suffer a > noise burst every time he gave his call, so it took a long time to decipher. > But it was pointless to call, I literally could not get my call sent in the > time between his calls. > > Agreed on the CW speeds. Too many going too fast and too damn many cut > numbers. > Who started this nonsense? > > Wes N7WS > > > .On 11/27/2016 10:04 PM, Jim Garland wrote: >> I think some contest stations had directional receive antennas and >> omni transmitting antennas. There were times when S9 stations couldn't >> hear me at all, and I suspect they were just listening in a different >> direction. At other times, I could work stations just marginally out of > the noise. >> >> I noticed that on 80m some Chinese stations would be booming in, with >> a pileup calling, but they'd never work anybody. (I never heard any of >> them on Top Band.)That I attributed to likely high noise levels in Chinese > cities. >> Some of the big Russian contest stations were also blasting in but >> couldn't hear any callers, including me. I suspect some them may have >> been running "Russian Kilowatts." By contrast, the big JA multi-multi >> contesters could hear and work everything. >> >> One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way >> too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as >> many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 >> wpm, especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. >> 73, >> Jim W8ZR >> >> > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
Hi Wes, When I operate at KP2M there are times I am told we are loud on 160M, but I just can't pull the signals out of the noise. When I am on higher bands I will get comments why I can't hear them when we are loud on topband. I don't know the answer to that. Sometimes I wonder if it is one way propagation, although that probably is not true. We have two beverage antennas. But the QRN down there is a killer many times. I hear folks calling but just can't pull them through. There is a difference when using the EU beverage over the US beverage. Until EU sunrise use the EU beverage a lot. Then after the EU sunrise switch to the US beverage. Although there are times we would be happy to work anyone from anywhere. For transmit using a FCP Inv-L. A BA on Topband. I can only wish up here in upstate NY. And I am a DXer. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Wes Stewart Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 5:47 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Contest conditions With a cloud-warmer antenna and only 500W in the bowels of southern Arizona working anywhere is problematic, but to the east is worse, even at SS. I heard a lot of Caribbean contest stations with big signals but never could work them. I think they are probably using directional RX antennas, but just as likely is that these are contest ops, not weak-signal DXers. Many of them probably are DXers in real life, but during a contest, they simply don't want to dig for weak signals when there are big ones that are easier to work. I'll probably get some guff for this, but that is my gut feeling. To the west is a different story, especially at, and after, SR. Saturday morning my sunrise was at 1403Z. Just before that (1357Z) I managed a QSO with some difficulty with BA4TB for a new one. A few minutes later he was 579. I worked four JAs between 1405 and 1418, all with good signals. I had worked JA3YBK earlier at 1225Z but I listened to him call CQ until 1445Z, 43 minutes after sunrise. KH6J was still Q5 at 1452Z, 50 minutes after sunrise. There was a Washington station, whose call escapes me, still audible at 1455Z, nearly an hour past sunrise. Remarkable. Agreed on the Chinese stations. I listened to one buy on Sunday morning calling CQ. He was sending a one-by-one and seemed to fade or suffer a noise burst every time he gave his call, so it took a long time to decipher. But it was pointless to call, I literally could not get my call sent in the time between his calls. Agreed on the CW speeds. Too many going too fast and too damn many cut numbers. Who started this nonsense? Wes N7WS .On 11/27/2016 10:04 PM, Jim Garland wrote: > I think some contest stations had directional receive antennas and > omni transmitting antennas. There were times when S9 stations couldn't > hear me at all, and I suspect they were just listening in a different > direction. At other times, I could work stations just marginally out of the noise. > > I noticed that on 80m some Chinese stations would be booming in, with > a pileup calling, but they'd never work anybody. (I never heard any of > them on Top Band.)That I attributed to likely high noise levels in Chinese cities. > Some of the big Russian contest stations were also blasting in but > couldn't hear any callers, including me. I suspect some them may have > been running "Russian Kilowatts." By contrast, the big JA multi-multi > contesters could hear and work everything. > > One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way > too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as > many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 > wpm, especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. > 73, > Jim W8ZR > > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
With a cloud-warmer antenna and only 500W in the bowels of southern Arizona working anywhere is problematic, but to the east is worse, even at SS. I heard a lot of Caribbean contest stations with big signals but never could work them. I think they are probably using directional RX antennas, but just as likely is that these are contest ops, not weak-signal DXers. Many of them probably are DXers in real life, but during a contest, they simply don't want to dig for weak signals when there are big ones that are easier to work. I'll probably get some guff for this, but that is my gut feeling. To the west is a different story, especially at, and after, SR. Saturday morning my sunrise was at 1403Z. Just before that (1357Z) I managed a QSO with some difficulty with BA4TB for a new one. A few minutes later he was 579. I worked four JAs between 1405 and 1418, all with good signals. I had worked JA3YBK earlier at 1225Z but I listened to him call CQ until 1445Z, 43 minutes after sunrise. KH6J was still Q5 at 1452Z, 50 minutes after sunrise. There was a Washington station, whose call escapes me, still audible at 1455Z, nearly an hour past sunrise. Remarkable. Agreed on the Chinese stations. I listened to one buy on Sunday morning calling CQ. He was sending a one-by-one and seemed to fade or suffer a noise burst every time he gave his call, so it took a long time to decipher. But it was pointless to call, I literally could not get my call sent in the time between his calls. Agreed on the CW speeds. Too many going too fast and too damn many cut numbers. Who started this nonsense? Wes N7WS .On 11/27/2016 10:04 PM, Jim Garland wrote: I think some contest stations had directional receive antennas and omni transmitting antennas. There were times when S9 stations couldn't hear me at all, and I suspect they were just listening in a different direction. At other times, I could work stations just marginally out of the noise. I noticed that on 80m some Chinese stations would be booming in, with a pileup calling, but they'd never work anybody. (I never heard any of them on Top Band.)That I attributed to likely high noise levels in Chinese cities. Some of the big Russian contest stations were also blasting in but couldn't hear any callers, including me. I suspect some them may have been running "Russian Kilowatts." By contrast, the big JA multi-multi contesters could hear and work everything. One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 wpm, especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. 73, Jim W8ZR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
I was also struck with one station who was calling lots of CQs with no answer - with the word "TEST" at the end about 10 WPM faster than the rest of the transmission. Nothing like changing your speed to help someone who is having a hard time hearing you figure out what is going on. :-) Reminds me of a story I have shared perhaps before... it's almost hard to believe this is true - but I was there. Back in about 1975 - when I was living with WB6VZI (now N6VI) I strung up a very low dipole on 160 meters and this is when VS6DO was pretty active. One station (I forget who) was having a tough time getting through the noise - and was going back and forth trying to get their callsign across. They got so determined - that they eventually sent their call phonetically - on CW!! Wow. The other morning - I had a weak JA call me - and I had all but one letter of their callsign. When they tried again - they sent the missing letter about 4 or 5 times - and quickly got in the log. There are good ways and bad ways to deal with noise. My personal experience is something in the mid 20's works pretty well for code speed - and certainly not sending at different speeds or superfluous information. Tree N6TR PS: Stew Perry is less than 3 weeks away!! On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Mike Waters wrote: > Well, we can look forward to the ARRL 160 and the Stew Perry, where the > average speed is considerably slower. > > 73 Mike > www.w0btu.com > > > One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way too > > fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as many > > frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 wpm, > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
Well, we can look forward to the ARRL 160 and the Stew Perry, where the average speed is considerably slower. 73 Mike www.w0btu.com > One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way too > fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as many > frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 wpm, _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
> One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way > too > fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as > many > frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 > wpm, > especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. > 73, > Jim W8ZR Indeed, way too fast for conditions at the receiving end. Then they wonder why their rates are down and why they're "not in the log" because their call sign was miscopied. 73, Charlie, N0TT _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
On good propagation years there generally is not enough band to go split. This was a luxury in this contest. I have noticed that sometimes faster is better, you beat the qsb ups and down and sometimes slower is better. W0MU On 11/28/2016 7:26 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote: I put in my BOG the Saturday before the contest. It’s the basic 200 feet installation with a pair of 8 foot ground rods at each end.One of those rods was almost impossible to hammer in, but that’s why the Lord provides strong sons!The second rod went in after about 10 minutes. I don’t like big contests so I just use them to pick up new band countries. I found 160M to be in great shape the week before the contest, and enjoyed playing with the BOG. I picked up four new ones on 160, and a few new ones on 80 during that week, so I had my list of stations to watch out for on hand for the two contest evenings.I heard none of the on the air, nor saw any of them spotted during the contest. TB Conditions for RX on Friday night / Saturday morning was pretty mediocre here, but I was hearing EU nicely on Saturday night.I was looking for the DL guys in HB0 land on 160, but never heard them, but I do recall seeing a single spot for them. I recall reading last year that the Chinese government was supposed to start issuing personal station licenses as they currently only issue club licenses – thus the reason most stations are in the city with the noise problems W8ZR mentions. I’ve no idea what’s happening on that front. I heard pips out of BG2AUE on 80M here on Saturday morning, but he wasn’t even near strong enough to work. I was switching between my vertical and BOG for 80M RX. The BOG seems to do a pretty good job on 80M for me. I concur with W8ZRs comments about going 45 WPM. This is my third season on Top Band, and I’ve learned the value of slowing way down when a station has trouble copying me.I said I didn’t like big contests, but I did put in a 6 hour stint at our club station W3ZGD on Saturday morning / afternoon. I hit 15 and 10 pretty hard. After not a lot of sleep on Friday night, I had a pretty good headache around 11 AM Saturday. During a contest everyone is simplex (God Bless FO/K7AR who went split……), and that noise, weak signals, and the DX going 45 WPM was just nasty for me to handle. But then, I’m not a seasoned contester so maybe the regulars have learned to deal with it. 73 Mark K3MSB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
I put in my BOG the Saturday before the contest. It’s the basic 200 feet installation with a pair of 8 foot ground rods at each end.One of those rods was almost impossible to hammer in, but that’s why the Lord provides strong sons!The second rod went in after about 10 minutes. I don’t like big contests so I just use them to pick up new band countries. I found 160M to be in great shape the week before the contest, and enjoyed playing with the BOG. I picked up four new ones on 160, and a few new ones on 80 during that week, so I had my list of stations to watch out for on hand for the two contest evenings.I heard none of the on the air, nor saw any of them spotted during the contest. TB Conditions for RX on Friday night / Saturday morning was pretty mediocre here, but I was hearing EU nicely on Saturday night.I was looking for the DL guys in HB0 land on 160, but never heard them, but I do recall seeing a single spot for them. I recall reading last year that the Chinese government was supposed to start issuing personal station licenses as they currently only issue club licenses – thus the reason most stations are in the city with the noise problems W8ZR mentions. I’ve no idea what’s happening on that front. I heard pips out of BG2AUE on 80M here on Saturday morning, but he wasn’t even near strong enough to work. I was switching between my vertical and BOG for 80M RX. The BOG seems to do a pretty good job on 80M for me. I concur with W8ZRs comments about going 45 WPM. This is my third season on Top Band, and I’ve learned the value of slowing way down when a station has trouble copying me.I said I didn’t like big contests, but I did put in a 6 hour stint at our club station W3ZGD on Saturday morning / afternoon. I hit 15 and 10 pretty hard. After not a lot of sleep on Friday night, I had a pretty good headache around 11 AM Saturday. During a contest everyone is simplex (God Bless FO/K7AR who went split……), and that noise, weak signals, and the DX going 45 WPM was just nasty for me to handle. But then, I’m not a seasoned contester so maybe the regulars have learned to deal with it. 73 Mark K3MSB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
I think some contest stations had directional receive antennas and omni transmitting antennas. There were times when S9 stations couldn't hear me at all, and I suspect they were just listening in a different direction. At other times, I could work stations just marginally out of the noise. I noticed that on 80m some Chinese stations would be booming in, with a pileup calling, but they'd never work anybody. (I never heard any of them on Top Band.)That I attributed to likely high noise levels in Chinese cities. Some of the big Russian contest stations were also blasting in but couldn't hear any callers, including me. I suspect some them may have been running "Russian Kilowatts." By contrast, the big JA multi-multi contesters could hear and work everything. One problem I frequently encountered was DX stations sending CW way too fast. When a station is just out of the noise with fast QSB, as many frequently are, they're really hard to copy if they're going 45 wpm, especially if they have a short, unusual call, like T5W. 73, Jim W8ZR > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K6UJ Bob > Harmon > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 08:44 PM > To: g...@ka1j.com > Cc: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Contest conditions > > Gary, > Thanks for the report. I am a newbie on 160 and now I know I cant > blame all my receive issues on my lame inverted L:-) > > Bob > K6UJ > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Gary Smith wrote: > > > Weird condx here for the contest, I could hear plenty of DX but even > > with a KW, they often couldn't hear me. Sometimes the Rx antenna was > > less helpful to listen with and other times it was incredibly > > effective like someone pulled the plug on all directions except the > > one the DX was at. > > > > Wasn't the antennas, I still made great contacts with some faint DX > > who I could barely hear, it was unusual conditions. > > Think the uncertainty is one of the > > reasons I love 160 as much as I do. > > > > 73, > > > > Gary > > KA1J > > _ > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Contest conditions
Gary, Thanks for the report. I am a newbie on 160 and now I know I cant blame all my receive issues on my lame inverted L:-) Bob K6UJ On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Gary Smith wrote: > Weird condx here for the contest, I could > hear plenty of DX but even with a KW, they > often couldn't hear me. Sometimes the Rx > antenna was less helpful to listen with > and other times it was incredibly > effective like someone pulled the plug on > all directions except the one the DX was > at. > > Wasn't the antennas, I still made great > contacts with some faint DX who I could > barely hear, it was unusual conditions. > Think the uncertainty is one of the > reasons I love 160 as much as I do. > > 73, > > Gary > KA1J > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Contest conditions
Weird condx here for the contest, I could hear plenty of DX but even with a KW, they often couldn't hear me. Sometimes the Rx antenna was less helpful to listen with and other times it was incredibly effective like someone pulled the plug on all directions except the one the DX was at. Wasn't the antennas, I still made great contacts with some faint DX who I could barely hear, it was unusual conditions. Think the uncertainty is one of the reasons I love 160 as much as I do. 73, Gary KA1J _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
