Re: Topband: Coupla things
Dale, I agree with you. The reason for the signal report is to convery honest information to the other party. If the signal is not pure I would not send a T9 and I would send a K when I receive clicks. If we used the correct signal report the responsible offender would be grateful to receive this information if he or she was not aware of it. Repeat offenders would get the point if they were constantly receiving 599K reports. I still hear the occasional chirpy signal. They're usually operators with homebrew rigs. They're grateful to receive the report and the discussion of the radio turns into a nice ragchew. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: DALE LONG To: mstang...@comcast.net Sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:54:56 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Coupla things Mike I give them a "7" on the tone report such as "557" not 559. This will get their attention more than the K which they may not understand. And I'm always interested in true signal reports and any problems that my signal may have. 73, Dale - N3BNA From: "mstang...@comcast.net" To: Eddy Swynar Cc: topband@contesting.com; Tom W8JI Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Coupla things I thought the proper way of indicating clicks is with the signal report - 579k. I haven't heard this used in years. If the offender gets's this signal report it may give him a clue something is amiss. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Eddy Swynar To: Tom W8JI Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:54:11 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Coupla things On 2013-01-28, at 7:57 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: > > I hope everyone attempts to contact a person in private first, and only uses > public means when no private contact info is available or they are creating > an imminent disaster. > > The respectful thing, however, is always direct communications unless > something prevents that. That should go without saying. _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Coupla things
KA1J writes on Sat Jan 26 15:04:13 EST 2013 > I was S&P and called one fellow out west who was fairly faint. When he replied immediately, he was much, much stronger. It could be that his amp warmed up and he just turned it on that second he replied but that seems unlikely, it was remarkable how quick the reply and difference in signal. That might have been me. There is a simple explanation. The wind would change the SWR on the antenna and kick my amplifier out. There were a few times that I did not realize that had happen and would call CQ barefoot, than I noticed and reset the amp for the comeback. 73, Niko AC6DD _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Coupla things
> K9YC writes: > The broad signals out here on the left coast this weekend were W6BH, W6NV, and AC6DD. The other big guns mostly use K3s, and are a lot cleaner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w_RuN5xktg > And I DID contact each of the guys whose calls I cited during the contest. In fact, I contacted AC6DD about this issue two years ago when he was making a mess in the JA window during the winter Stew, and two years later his signal is still trashy. You did not contact me personally at any time. Your Stew Perry contact consisted of an anonymous "Bad Key Clicks QSY". > K9YC writes on 3830 on Mon JAn 28: > And it sure would be nice if W6BH and AC6DD would clean up their signals, which were often wiping out stations with their clicky, phase-noise filled sidebands. By your own writing you complained of my bad signal during Stew Perry when I was using a FT1000MP and an Intech Com 1000B Amplifier with a 60' Vertical antenna located in Avila Beach. You have the exactly same complaint now when I was located near San Simeon using a K3, ACOM 2000A, and a 95' Vertical. It is clear to me where the problem is, and that you might need to have your receiving equipment examined. I asked you in the past to provide some evidence of your assertions, but so far I have not received any, and your personal attacks continue. I am asking you to stop. Niko - AC6DD _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
And I DID contact each of the guys whose calls I cited during the contest. In fact, I contacted about this issue two years ago when he was making a mess in the JA window during the winter Stew, and two years later his signal is still trashy. That happens sometimes. There was an east coast station that had an obnoxious wide buzz that took years to fix, and a Florida station still has a poor signal with spurious and clicks. I think the problem is fourfold for the cases where nothing is done over a long period of time. 1.) they don't have money to fix it. some radios are not repairable and just need replaced 2.) someone tells them they are OK, maybe even the manufacturer tells them their radio is OK, so they run with that 3.) they don't believe it and won't check 4.) they just don't care I don't know what the solution is, but it would be good to discuss it. Personally, I think they should get warnings and be DQ'ed for the same symptom if it repeats after a few warnings. We all make mistakes or have problems, but there is no excuse at all for 3 and 4. One fellow kept turning his FT1000MP's up to 130 watts or more, and a local service shop in or near Atlanta also did that for people. There is also stuff on the Internet that is just insane. Like FET's that are 200 watts when at 24 volts or higher, but screwdriver happy techs think a 200W 24 volt FET rating means 200 watts is OK at 12 volts: http://www.kb2ljj.com/data/icom/ic-718.htm 200w SSB Open the bottom and at back, there is the main board. At the right bottom is the option for the filters. Close to it - is R1707. This adjust the TX Power. Next to it is R1730. This adjusts the AM carrier. Adjust R1707 for what you want up to about 200 watts. It will give more but that is at saturation point of the device. Adjust R1730 for the AM carrier for about 40 or 50 watts only. This mod is only in testing and I cannot stress more to be carefull and keep it COOL. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
On 1/28/2013 7:55 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote: I think it's possible that some of the modern DSP rigs may have unusual (impulse) AGC artifacts in a strong signal environment. Having noise blanker turned on may make keyclick-sounding artifacts too. Absolutely -- clicks can be generated in the RX by a noise blanker, and by overload of a receiver. And yes, a noise blanker that samples a broadband signal and uses it to cancel or gate noise will make a loud signal sound broad. Nowadays though, many of us have a good spectrum display running, and can look at many signals and compare them. I'm using a P3, which I can expand to a display that's as little as 2kHz wide, and anything up to 200 kHz, and with any vertical scale up to about 80 dB. When I'm looking at signals for bandwidth, I set the detector in peak mode, so that I can see the sidebands. When you do this, the differences between clean radios and dirty ones jumps out at you. Naturally, you've also got to make certain that nothing in your system is getting overloaded. And I DID contact each of the guys whose calls I cited during the contest. In fact, I contacted AC6DD about this issue two years ago when he was making a mess in the JA window during the winter Stew, and two years later his signal is still trashy. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
As I usually do S&P in contests, I was tuning from 1.8 and going up, then repeating when there were no more CW signals. It's certainly possible there might be artifacts in this K3 but I wasn't using the DSP noise reduction nor the Noise Blanker. There were some very loud and powerful signals I came across that had no sign of clicks and some much less powerful S wise that were loaded with them. Most people had good signals but the ones that stood out covered both sides of their signal nicely. The ones that were obvious to me were obliterating the weaker signals near them. Gary KA1J > Bob (K6NV) and I were having a off-list discussion and it got me > wondering > > I heard some bad signals on the east coast here, but nothing > memorable that I would describe as having keyclicks. I think I know > what a keyclick is, I got lots of "OO postcards" in the mail for > them and other maladies when I was a kid :-). > > I would be surprised if things were much different on West coast. > > Is it possible... that what folks are attributing to keyclicks in > the transmitter, are actually AGC artifacts in their receiver? > > There are several legal-limit contest stations within a few miles of > me and I'm used to a strong-signal environment. And how it can pump > AGC causing audible artifacts that are not in the transmitter. And I > will generally disable AGC for anything but ear saving purposes. Why > set AGC to make all signals sound the loudness as each other, or use > AGC to make the noise be as loud as a signal? > > I think it's possible that some of the modern DSP rigs may have > unusual (impulse) AGC artifacts in a strong signal environment. > Having noise blanker turned on may make keyclick-sounding artifacts > too. > > Tim N3QE _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
I thought the proper way of indicating clicks is with the signal report - 579k. I haven't heard this used in years. No one does that now, and they especially will not do it in a contest. Remember all thise key click filter articles on the old QST? Yeah, but they didn't do anything for over-the-air clicks. They eliminated key spark radiation, which was really just a local BCI issue. They won't do a thing for a modern rig, local or over the air. Cleaning up transmitters with proper waveforms is actually relatively new. As a matter of fact the ARRL had the wrong waveform shown for a clean CW signal in all of their publications until just recently! Manufacturers only started with it in the past 10 years. For a large part, improvements have finally been made. Also, what we notice depends a great deal on our local background noise and bandwidth used. Someone with an S8 background noise (and wide bandwidth that lets in a lot of noise power) is probably not going to notice what would be terrible with S1 background. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
I thought the proper way of indicating clicks is with the signal report - 579k. I haven't heard this used in years. If the offender gets's this signal report it may give him a clue something is amiss. It worked when I was a novice years ago in the 1960's. Remember all thise key click filter articles on the old QST? Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Eddy Swynar To: Tom W8JI Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 13:54:11 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Coupla things On 2013-01-28, at 7:57 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: > > I hope everyone attempts to contact a person in private first, and only uses > public means when no private contact info is available or they are creating > an imminent disaster. > > The respectful thing, however, is always direct communications unless > something prevents that. That should go without saying. Hi Tom et al, Alas & alack, that sort of thing simply does NOT happen in to-day's Topband world... Far too often, the unwitting "perpetrator" is often lambasted & skewered---behind his back, of course---on the likes of The ON4KST Chat Room with fellow like-minded "gentlemen"...and more often than not, some anonymous "aide" will kindly and repeatedly send "FIX KLIX" at the end of the victim's transmissions on the air... _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Bob (K6NV) and I were having a off-list discussion and it got me wondering I heard some bad signals on the east coast here, but nothing memorable that I would describe as having keyclicks. I think I know what a keyclick is, I got lots of "OO postcards" in the mail for them and other maladies when I was a kid :-). I would be surprised if things were much different on West coast. Is it possible... that what folks are attributing to keyclicks in the transmitter, are actually AGC artifacts in their receiver? There are several legal-limit contest stations within a few miles of me and I'm used to a strong-signal environment. And how it can pump AGC causing audible artifacts that are not in the transmitter. And I will generally disable AGC for anything but ear saving purposes. Why set AGC to make all signals sound the loudness as each other, or use AGC to make the noise be as loud as a signal? I think it's possible that some of the modern DSP rigs may have unusual (impulse) AGC artifacts in a strong signal environment. Having noise blanker turned on may make keyclick-sounding artifacts too. Tim N3QE _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Hi Tom, I agree 100% with the idea of of somehow having a central repository of click ailments & cures: that would offer a struggling newbie to the ailment a quick & ready source of ideas & possible contacts as to a cure(s)... I have ascertained that my case here had to do directly with the plate current meter that I was employing in my 2x813 amplifier: it was reading FAR too low, with the consequence that I was using more drive than necessary on the linear to achieve "textbook specs". I believe the situation is now well in hand, however, and I am greatly appreciative for the patience & assistance extended to me in this regard by way of Bill (VE3CSK): would that EVERY sufferer of clicks whom we might encounter on the air be so fortunate... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ > I don't have much of an opinion on it one way or another, except I'm sure > most people appreciate direct contact more than public (any chat room, > cluster, or reflector is public) contact if possible. The exceptions being > something that just can't wait, or no way to contact someone directly. > > It would be interesting to keep a list of problems and cures. It isn't > correct that it is always the radio, always the amplifier, or even that it is > always either the radio or amplifier. Sometimes it is the antenna, or things > around the antenna. > > When we had terrible old receiving equipment with horrible dynamic range and > poor skirts, and even the perceived best gear like Collins fell into that > class years ago, we couldn't all bunch up 250 Hz from someone else. Things > problems now were not problems when our receivers forced us to be a kilocycle > or more away from strong signals, and when receiving and transmitting antenna > technology wasn't nearly so good. > > We have a new level of problems now. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Would that EVERY such case be treated in the same manner, Tom, exactly as you describe & as I acted upon---but sadly, it does not. And it leaves so-called "transgressors" feeling hurt, angry, dis-enfranchised, and no closer to any sort of resolution than before. Whither the "Gentleman's Band"...? Sadly, it seems to have devolved by times into the personal playhouse of a select few self-styled "noblemen" who have apparently lost the true Amateur spirit>>> I don't have much of an opinion on it one way or another, except I'm sure most people appreciate direct contact more than public (any chat room, cluster, or reflector is public) contact if possible. The exceptions being something that just can't wait, or no way to contact someone directly. It would be interesting to keep a list of problems and cures. It isn't correct that it is always the radio, always the amplifier, or even that it is always either the radio or amplifier. Sometimes it is the antenna, or things around the antenna. When we had terrible old receiving equipment with horrible dynamic range and poor skirts, and even the perceived best gear like Collins fell into that class years ago, we couldn't all bunch up 250 Hz from someone else. Things problems now were not problems when our receivers forced us to be a kilocycle or more away from strong signals, and when receiving and transmitting antenna technology wasn't nearly so good. We have a new level of problems now. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
On 2013-01-28, at 7:57 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: > > I hope everyone attempts to contact a person in private first, and only uses > public means when no private contact info is available or they are creating > an imminent disaster. > > The respectful thing, however, is always direct communications unless > something prevents that. That should go without saying. Hi Tom et al, Alas & alack, that sort of thing simply does NOT happen in to-day's Topband world... Far too often, the unwitting "perpetrator" is often lambasted & skewered---behind his back, of course---on the likes of The ON4KST Chat Room with fellow like-minded "gentlemen"...and more often than not, some anonymous "aide" will kindly and repeatedly send "FIX KLIX" at the end of the victim's transmissions on the air... That's really a TREMENDOUS help in "root-causing" someone's travails with clicks...and I know this only too well, because I myself as the "victim" in just this very same sort of character assassination. Anyone with any history on ON4KST site will recall some weeks ago how the brethren all tackled "N2**" for his clicks---and the fall-out has been---from what I can see, anyway---that that person now rarely, if ever, shows his face on 160-meters anymore. And as recently as early last week, at least one stalwart from the north-east seemed to derive great pleasure in skewering a certain "VE1" about his "clicks": well, it turned-out that the "bad" station in question had some other issue there that had nothing whatever to do with clicks. I know, because I personally telephoned the owner behind the "VE1" call sign in question personally, & the situation was immediately---and easily---remedied. Would that EVERY such case be treated in the same manner, Tom, exactly as you describe & as I acted upon---but sadly, it does not. And it leaves so-called "transgressors" feeling hurt, angry, dis-enfranchised, and no closer to any sort of resolution than before. Whither the "Gentleman's Band"...? Sadly, it seems to have devolved by times into the personal playhouse of a select few self-styled "noblemen" who have apparently lost the true Amateur spirit... Just my $0.02 worth...let the flaming begin. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
To this end, if my signal (W0ODS) was offensive in any way kindly let me know (Off-list, please). >>> I hope everyone attempts to contact a person in private first, and only uses public means when no private contact info is available or they are creating an imminent disaster. It would also be good to keep a list of offending systems. Tubes with cathode current modulated by filament supply hum are one issue, as is relay sequencing. A few years ago someone had a fractional watt drive (or some other low power) surplus amplifier, and it was really nasty. Some radios are not clean, either. Sometimes it is the basic radio, sometimes RF from RX antennas getting into the TX pre-driver chain. I, like many people, have had problems of connection or component failure, and are completely unaware unless someone mentions something. The respectful thing, however, is always direct communications unless something prevents that. That should go without saying. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Folks, Thanks to all those who gave me a call/QSO this weekend. I apologize to those that I could not hear from my suburban lot (very noisy and only a distorted inv "V"). What is the 'official' rule for the 1830-1835 segment. There were a lot of big stations using it for their run freq. Joe K2UF With enough THRUST pig fly just fine. -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:53 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Coupla things On 1/27/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Brown wrote: > > The broad signals out here on the left coast this weekend were W6BH, W6NV, Blown call by me -- it was K6NV who was broad. W6NV was with a bunch of guys activating N6RZ, in a memorial tribute to Dave. They were clean as a whistle. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2637/6023 - Release Date: 01/10/13 Internal Virus Database is out of date. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things ...
This isn't a problem only in contests. In non-contest settings, nearly every time I'm on the air for any length of time (SSB), it results in a pileup (no matter which band). Things generally go smoothly in most parts of the world, with the notable exception of EU. Many ops on the other end there seem to be increasingly unaware of, or unconcerned for, reasonable operating procedures. They transmit on top of me, they respond when I ask for a partial even when their call isn't close, they say their call ten times, trying to block everyone else, they even TX in the middle of an established QSO. They don't *listen*. Another regular thing these days is that someone apparently gets unhappy and starts "tuning up" (really just sending a carrier) on my run frequency for an extended period. Some of it might be called "bullying," but it also smells of near-desperation. I don't claim to have an answer. Mostly, I just grin and bear it, and try to pick out the well behaved and/or quiet operators when I can. I have to say, though, that people who sign by saying "have fun with the pileup" have it backwards. At least for me, a big pileup full of inconsiderate operators is much more work than fun. 73, Rick ZL2HAM -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of lmlangenfeld tds.net Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 9:15 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Coupla things ... > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:04:13 -0500 > From: "Gary Smith" > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Coupla things > Message-ID: <510436bd.15693.958f...@gary.ka1j.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > - It is a contest so the stronger and more savvy will wrangle contacts > from those less able. I do find it disquieting to have someone > obviously trying to copy my call and another contester come on top of > my attempts and with their stronger signal, send their call over mine > so the other person hearing them clearly replies to them instead. I'm > running legal limit and the guy overpowering me is 20 over so I know > he heard me, he just pushed me aside like a shopper at Macy's Bargain > Basement. Yes it's a contest but I don't find that kind of bullying to > carry much honor. > > Gary, et al.: That happened to me more than a few times, too. I was surprised and disappointed by how many seemed to take a DX station's "WA9?" as an invitation to reply from an entirely different call area or with a vastly dissimilar prefix. And, except in the few cases where the DX op was kind enough to persist, I was usually shouldered aside in the resulting "shouting match." Contest or no, I sincerely hope this doesn't represent the new norm for the "Gentleman's Band." 73, Mark -- WA9ETW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things ...
Regrettably, it is not a contest-only behavior. I hear the behavior all the time when I operate from XV. 73, Larry W6NWS -Original Message- From: lmlangenfeld tds.net Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:14 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Coupla things ... Message: 2 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:04:13 -0500 From: "Gary Smith" To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Coupla things Message-ID: <510436bd.15693.958f...@gary.ka1j.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - It is a contest so the stronger and more savvy will wrangle contacts from those less able. I do find it disquieting to have someone obviously trying to copy my call and another contester come on top of my attempts and with their stronger signal, send their call over mine so the other person hearing them clearly replies to them instead. I'm running legal limit and the guy overpowering me is 20 over so I know he heard me, he just pushed me aside like a shopper at Macy's Bargain Basement. Yes it's a contest but I don't find that kind of bullying to carry much honor. Gary, et al.: That happened to me more than a few times, too. I was surprised and disappointed by how many seemed to take a DX station's "WA9?" as an invitation to reply from an entirely different call area or with a vastly dissimilar prefix. And, except in the few cases where the DX op was kind enough to persist, I was usually shouldered aside in the resulting "shouting match." Contest or no, I sincerely hope this doesn't represent the new norm for the "Gentleman's Band." 73, Mark -- WA9ETW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
On 1/27/2013 10:50 AM, Jim Brown wrote: The broad signals out here on the left coast this weekend were W6BH, W6NV, Blown call by me -- it was K6NV who was broad. W6NV was with a bunch of guys activating N6RZ, in a memorial tribute to Dave. They were clean as a whistle. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
To this end, if my signal (W0ODS) was offensive in any way kindly let me know (Off-list, please). Saturday night I was using a new homebrew amplifier, just completed that afternoon. Needless to say, it hasn't yet had a full lab check-up, only clean reception reports from some local friends. Jeff, W0ODS Iowa I think that it's entirely feasible for a select & selfish few to do something like that, Gary, but in truth, 99% of those with offensive signals in that regard probably aren't even aware that they're generating key clicks (contrary to the opinion of certain denizens of the band). Properly coupling one's rig to a linear seems simple enough on the surface, but it is NOT necessarily so. > _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Heyya Eddie, > > I do find it disquieting to have someone obviously trying to copy > my call and another contester come on top of my attempts and with > their stronger signal, send their call over mine so the other person > hearing them clearly replies to them instead. I'm running legal > limit and the guy overpowering me is 20 over so I know he heard me, > he just pushed me aside like a shopper at Macy's Bargain Basement. > Yes it's a contest but I don't find that kind of bullying to carry > much honour. > > The old saying of "...All's fair in love & war" applies here, I'm > afraid! "bullying" just goes with the turf, & I will admit that > non-practitioners DO have quite a "learning curve" to go through > before becoming used / immune to it... Oh, I can be a genuine SOB, I have witnesses... I just would never interrupt the DX from reading the J in someones call when the DX is obviously working that person and nobody else. To pound my call twice on top of the weak station repeating their call for me to slip in a Q is fatuous. Maybe that's why I really don't ever try to win, place or show in contests, I just like a fair game with respect from all. When I hear one station working someone else I don't do a thing till that exchange is concluded by those participants. That includes the DX sending WB4L? and me then sending KA1J to steal WB4L's Q. Just no honor in that. To me, getting the DXs attention in the first place is all fair game. > > - I was S&P and called one fellow out west who was fairly faint. > When he replied immediately, he was much, much stronger. It could be > that his amp warmed up and he just turned it on that second he > replied but that seems unlikely, it was remarkable how quick the > reply and difference in signal. After a bit I kept thinking how > unusual that was as in 30 years I've not experienced that kind of > change without an amp being turned on. Then I got to thinking > perhaps he had a 4 square or better and has his station set so when > he logged my call, it accessed a hamcall database and then > automatically switched to my direction without him manually doing a > thing. I don't remember which call he has or I'd ask him. Is this > something that people are doing? Seems ideal. > > You can experience sorta the same thing, Gary, on receive, if you > employ different directional antennas for your "ears": the > difference(s) can really be quite astounding by times! Oh yes, I have a HI-Z Triangular array which has different directions but this was an immediate huge change in signal and between my calling him & his reply, there wasn't more than a second. Hardly time to enter my call much less switch an antenna at the same time. Really seemed like it was robotic in effect. Instant. > > - Interesting how different the signals are. There was one guy who > had what sounded like RF on his signal and made him stand out. I > wonder if that was by accident or intentional. > > Funny you should mention that---at one point this morning I was > answered by a station from New York who would have been an ideal > candidate for participation in the AWA's annual "1929 QSO Party"! He > was very broad & raspy-sounding, and was obviously sending with a > straight key. Anyway, he completely obliterated the other two > stations who were calling me, so naturally I responded to him first. > And that was good---except when he moved off-frequency to answer > others, & was so wide that all I could hear in my passband was his > signal! Hi Hi. I don't honestly believe that he was a serious > contender---most likely just wanted to make some Q's with a vintage > transmitter. He never stuck around too long anyway, & I rather > enjoyed the experience... I always wanted to hear W1AW's Spark Gap on the air, just once... Gary KA1J _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
I heard a local New England signal today that sounded like auroral scatter but just worked him and didn't play with the Hi-Z RX antenna & just left it in one place depending on time & DX. Might have been the same person, I don't remember his call. I was S&P until this morning so I was listening for the faint sigs as much as anything. Now to get my logging program to produce a proper cabrillo... Gary KA1J > I didn't notice the keyclicks so bad, but what did bother me was one > local who had an incredible amount of (?) phase noise (it was keyed > broadband noise plus whiny synth noise) up and down from his very > enthusiastic CQ'ing, and a number of guys who had some pretty bad > 120Hz ripple, bad enough their sigs were most of a kHz wide. > > There was one very loud guy in new england Sunday AM, who for the > life of me I could not copy his call when my RX antenna was pointed > at him (my memory was jarred by someone talking about "UFO" sounds), > but when I pointed away he sounded just fine. I'm guessing some sort > of multipath. It's more than just the ghostly sound of a local when > the the band is "being long", my guess is something is actually > happening to dynamically shift phase so much that it sounded like > the reflections are an audibly different different tone. > > Tim N3QE > _ > Topband Reflector > _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Coupla things ...
> Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 15:04:13 -0500 > From: "Gary Smith" > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Coupla things > Message-ID: <510436bd.15693.958f...@gary.ka1j.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > > - It is a contest so the stronger and more savvy will wrangle > contacts from those less able. I do find it disquieting to have > someone obviously trying to copy my call and another contester come > on top of my attempts and with their stronger signal, send their call > over mine so the other person hearing them clearly replies to them > instead. I'm running legal limit and the guy overpowering me is 20 > over so I know he heard me, he just pushed me aside like a shopper at > Macy's Bargain Basement. Yes it's a contest but I don't find that > kind of bullying to carry much honor. > > Gary, et al.: That happened to me more than a few times, too. I was surprised and disappointed by how many seemed to take a DX station's "WA9?" as an invitation to reply from an entirely different call area or with a vastly dissimilar prefix. And, except in the few cases where the DX op was kind enough to persist, I was usually shouldered aside in the resulting "shouting match." Contest or no, I sincerely hope this doesn't represent the new norm for the "Gentleman's Band." 73, Mark -- WA9ETW _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
On 1/27/2013 6:46 AM, Eddy Swynar wrote: The old saying of "...All's fair in love & war" applies here, I'm afraid! "bullying" just goes with the turf, & I will admit that non-practitioners DO have quite a "learning curve" The broad signals out here on the left coast this weekend were W6BH, W6NV, and AC6DD. The other big guns mostly use K3s, and are a lot cleaner. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
I didn't notice the keyclicks so bad, but what did bother me was one local who had an incredible amount of (?) phase noise (it was keyed broadband noise plus whiny synth noise) up and down from his very enthusiastic CQ'ing, and a number of guys who had some pretty bad 120Hz ripple, bad enough their sigs were most of a kHz wide. There was one very loud guy in new england Sunday AM, who for the life of me I could not copy his call when my RX antenna was pointed at him (my memory was jarred by someone talking about "UFO" sounds), but when I pointed away he sounded just fine. I'm guessing some sort of multipath. It's more than just the ghostly sound of a local when the the band is "being long", my guess is something is actually happening to dynamically shift phase so much that it sounded like the reflections are an audibly different different tone. Tim N3QE _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
Hi Gary, > I do find it disquieting to have someone obviously trying to copy my call > and another contester come on top of my attempts and with their stronger > signal, send their call over mine so the other person hearing them clearly > replies to them instead. I'm running legal limit and the guy overpowering me > is 20 over so I know he heard me, he just pushed me aside like a shopper at > Macy's Bargain Basement. Yes it's a contest but I don't find that kind of > bullying to carry much honour. The old saying of "...All's fair in love & war" applies here, I'm afraid! "bullying" just goes with the turf, & I will admit that non-practitioners DO have quite a "learning curve" to go through before becoming used / immune to it... > - I was S&P and called one fellow out west who was fairly faint. When he > replied immediately, he was much, much stronger. It could be that his amp > warmed up and he just turned it on that second he replied but that seems > unlikely, it was remarkable how quick the reply and difference in signal. > After a bit I kept thinking how unusual that was as in 30 years I've not > experienced that kind of change without an amp being turned on. Then I got to > thinking perhaps he had a 4 square or better and has his station set so when > he logged my call, it accessed a hamcall database and then automatically > switched to my direction without him manually doing a thing. I don't remember > which call he has or I'd ask him. Is this something that people are doing? > Seems ideal. You can experience sorta the same thing, Gary, on receive, if you employ different directional antennas for your "ears": the difference(s) can really be quite astounding by times! > - Interesting how different the signals are. There was one guy who had what > sounded like RF on his signal and made him stand out. I wonder if that was by > accident or intentional. Funny you should mention that---at one point this morning I was answered by a station from New York who would have been an ideal candidate for participation in the AWA's annual "1929 QSO Party"! He was very broad & raspy-sounding, and was obviously sending with a straight key. Anyway, he completely obliterated the other two stations who were calling me, so naturally I responded to him first. And that was good---except when he moved off-frequency to answer others, & was so wide that all I could hear in my passband was his signal! Hi Hi. I don't honestly believe that he was a serious contender---most likely just wanted to make some Q's with a vintage transmitter. He never stuck around too long anyway, & I rather enjoyed the experience... > - Same idea with the different range of key clicks. I have a K3 and inrad 250 > Hz filters on both receivers and had the digital filter set as narrow as > possible to 50 Hz and even with this rigs fine Rx, there were quite a few > stations I could tell far away that they were there. Their clicks were so > loud they obliterated DX well more than a KHz away. I had to wait till they > listened and tried to pull out the DX call or reply to me. Most sitting on > their frequency had delightfully clean loud signals and no clicks. It's too > bad some people drive their amps so hard and make it hard for others to be > around them. Maybe it's part of their plan. I think that it's entirely feasible for a select & selfish few to do something like that, Gary, but in truth, 99% of those with offensive signals in that regard probably aren't even aware that they're generating key clicks (contrary to the opinion of certain denizens of the band). Properly coupling one's rig to a linear seems simple enough on the surface, but it is NOT necessarily so. So much focus is put upon transceivers as being the major culprit in this regard, that focus is lost upon the proper whys & wherefores of our linear amplifiers, & how we might treat them. I think the Amateur community at large would benefit tremendously if the self-styled technical gurus in our midst might devote their time to well-written essays & analysis of the key click phenomenon BEYOND the simple realm of the transceiver, per se, rather than engaging in character assassination on the likes of the ON4KST Chat Room with others of a like mind. It reflects poorly upon the character of the part icipants, and NOBODY benefits from such behind-the-scenes sniping---least of all those who might bear the pain of clicks being heard on the band...! ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Coupla things
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Gary Smith wrote: > There was one guy who had what sounded like RF on his signal and made him > stand out. I wonder if that was by accident or intentional. > Yes! What in the heck was that? He sounded like a UFO from Mars or something. I heard him many times (never did copy his call) and never figured out what was causing that odd noise on his signal. > - Same idea with the different range of key clicks. ... there were quite a > few stations ... Their clicks were so loud they obliterated DX well more > than a KHz away. > That is for sure. I've never heard so many key clicks in a contest. But we enjoyed it just the same. :-) 73, Mike www.w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Coupla things
- Last night during the CQ160 test it was the quietest night in many weeks as regards local QRM from the electrical noise that has been plaguing me. The band seemed very open to EU and some SA stations with some EU coming in far stronger than most local stations. It was a fun night for me, I actually got to enjoy a contest without having a buzzsaw in the background of every station I heard. I'm still trying to pinpoint the exact source but it would be easier if it were constant. It is there at the this moment 2:30PM, I hope it drops off before evening comes. My point however is the band was open and there was a fair amount of DX onboard during the contest. - It is a contest so the stronger and more savvy will wrangle contacts from those less able. I do find it disquieting to have someone obviously trying to copy my call and another contester come on top of my attempts and with their stronger signal, send their call over mine so the other person hearing them clearly replies to them instead. I'm running legal limit and the guy overpowering me is 20 over so I know he heard me, he just pushed me aside like a shopper at Macy's Bargain Basement. Yes it's a contest but I don't find that kind of bullying to carry much honor. - I was S&P and called one fellow out west who was fairly faint. When he replied immediately, he was much, much stronger. It could be that his amp warmed up and he just turned it on that second he replied but that seems unlikely, it was remarkable how quick the reply and difference in signal. After a bit I kept thinking how unusual that was as in 30 years I've not experienced that kind of change without an amp being turned on. Then I got to thinking perhaps he had a 4 square or better and has his station set so when he logged my call, it accessed a hamcall database and then automatically switched to my direction without him manually doing a thing. I don't remember which call he has or I'd ask him. Is this something that people are doing? Seems ideal. - Interesting how different the signals are. There was one guy who had what sounded like RF on his signal and made him stand out. I wonder if that was by accident or intentional. - Same idea with the different range of key clicks. I have a K3 and inrad 250 Hz filters on both receivers and had the digital filter set as narrow as possible to 50 Hz and even with this rigs fine Rx, there were quite a few stations I could tell far away that they were there. Their clicks were so loud they obliterated DX well more than a KHz away. I had to wait till they listened and tried to pull out the DX call or reply to me. Most sitting on their frequency had delightfully clean loud signals and no clicks. It's too bad some people drive their amps so hard and make it hard for others to be around them. Maybe it's part of their plan. Looking forward to tonights extravaganza! Gary KA1J _ Topband Reflector
