Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages
I have some more data points in my search to eliminate noise in several of my beverage wires. First, I disconnected both the west and the southwest beverage wires from my matching transformer box out at the end of the rx feedlines. I left the coax still connected to the transformer. I saw two different levels of noise on the wires. One was at about -135 while the other was below -140 and was almost the background noise of the receiver all by itself. It appears that a small amount of noise is coming in on one of the the coax feedlines, and I am working on building up some 1:1 coax choke baluns to install in the line where the coax enters the building to remedy this. I left the West beverage disconnected last night and looked at the residual noise level there during night time conditions. The noise stayed at -142 all night, so there was no more pickup than I was getting during the daytime. What I did discover, was that the night time noise on the hooked up SW beverage is all over the lot depending on when I check it. I am now convinced that I am suffering from some unwanted RFI that seems to only occur at night. It does not affect my other wires, just west and southwest. It does not sound like power line noise. It sounds "smoother" and almost natural. I saw noise levels jump from -120 up to almost -100. A typical increase in noise from day to night seems to be about 10 dB on my other beverage wires, but I am seeing 20 or 30 dB on these two beverages, so something is screwy here. It looks like moving the beverages away from the vertical antenna by another 100 ft or so helped out by about 10 dB, but at times they are still so noisy as to be worthless to use. I tried detuning the shunt fed vertical after moving the two beverages, but saw no change in noise levels on the West and SW beverages. I shorted out the gamm a arm to the base. As soon as I find some boxes to put my 1:1 baluns in, I'll install those in the rx feedlines and report back. Thanks again to all for your helpful comments. Dave K1WHS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages
Good point Frank, We had similar problems at a Caribbean Island ham station and used a pennant aimed at Europe with the back end pointed at the TX antenna about 100 meters away. Worked well that way. Their Beverage did not! George, K8GG > Hi Joel, > > > In my opinion your elevated radials are a show stopper for an adjacent > receiving antennas unless you can disconnect all of them when you're > receiving. > > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > > - Original Message - > > From: "Joel" > To: "Herbert Schoenbohm" > Cc: "TopBand List" , "kd9sv" > Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:48:57 AM > Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages > > Hi Gary > Would you send the info you have re. tower detuning that you designed for > K3UR. (Am using 1/4 wl tower with elevated radials) > Thank you > Joel > k4wm > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 6, 2018, at 13:42, Herbert Schoenbohm >> wrote: >> >> Great work Gary! This is probably a way that is much less expensive than >> the commercial version of doing this. >> >> https://www.lbagroup.com/products/detunipole-detuning-skirt-kit >> >> Herb, KV4FZ >> >>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:28 PM, kd9sv wrote: >>> >>> Herb, FYI...gary, kd9sv >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: kd9sv [mailto:kd...@comcast.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:59 PM >>> To: 'David Olean' >>> Subject: RE: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >>> >>> Dave, I have recently developed a simple "tower de-tuning system" that >>> is >>> in >>> the "Beta Testing" phase. It will soon be available thru DXE as a >>> system >>> to >>> de-tune a tower but I have no plans to use it on towers being used for >>> transmitting, however; I did design a system for doing that which only >>> requires adding one RJ1A or Kilovac HC1 type vacuum relay. I built one >>> of >>> those for K3UL which he has not yet installed. I will send you the >>> drawing >>> if I can find it on my computer. How are you feeding your tower? Gamma >>> or >>> what? >>> >>> 73, de gary, kd9sv >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of >>> David >>> Olean >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:30 PM >>> To: Topband Reflector >>> Subject: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >>> >>> I have been putzing around trying to improve my 160 meter setup, and >>> have run into a real problem. Most of the USA is covered by two >>> directions from here in Maine. SW and W. My problem is that I have an >>> excessively high noise level on both of the beverages that run in these >>> directions. In the last six months it has gotten worse, and so bad that >>> I cannot use either beverage. The wires terminate at the side of my >>> barn where I have ground rods and the RG-6 goes through PVC conduit up >>> to the shack on the second floor of the barn. During the day I see >>> noise levels at -133 or -132 on the two wires, but at night the noise >>> had climbed to levels around -100 or to -110 on a good night. I >>> suspected that I was getting noise coupled in from my vertical which is >>> rather close and on the other side of my barn all of 55 ft away. >>> >>> Yesterday, I modified the west beverage and shortened it so that it >>> terminated about 150 feet away from the barn and I ran new coax back >>> across the field. I kept the SW beverage as is to compare noise levels >>> at night. Lo and behold, but the noise went to -110 on the SW beverage, >>> but only about -120 dBm on the modified beverage. This is a 10 dB >>> improvement. Other directions at night run at about -130, so I am now >>> seeing a 10 dB extra hit in noise to the west. >>> >>> The vertical is a shunt fed Rohn 25 with a total height just over 90 ft >>> with top loading from a 5 element long boom 10 Meter yagi. I am not >>> sure >>> if it is possible to simply un resonate this tower. Does anyone have >>> experience with simple ways to decouple a shunt fed tower from the rx >>> antennas? >>> >>> The extra 10 dB of noise that I get to the west and SW is mostly due to >>> the location of a town about 7 or 8 miles away in NH. It is ripe with >>> all sorts of power line noise. I still can't rule o
Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages
Hi Joel, In my opinion your elevated radials are a show stopper for an adjacent receiving antennas unless you can disconnect all of them when you're receiving. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Joel" To: "Herbert Schoenbohm" Cc: "TopBand List" , "kd9sv" Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 12:48:57 AM Subject: Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages Hi Gary Would you send the info you have re. tower detuning that you designed for K3UR. (Am using 1/4 wl tower with elevated radials) Thank you Joel k4wm Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 6, 2018, at 13:42, Herbert Schoenbohm > wrote: > > Great work Gary! This is probably a way that is much less expensive than > the commercial version of doing this. > > https://www.lbagroup.com/products/detunipole-detuning-skirt-kit > > Herb, KV4FZ > >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:28 PM, kd9sv wrote: >> >> Herb, FYI...gary, kd9sv >> >> -Original Message- >> From: kd9sv [mailto:kd...@comcast.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:59 PM >> To: 'David Olean' >> Subject: RE: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >> >> Dave, I have recently developed a simple "tower de-tuning system" that is >> in >> the "Beta Testing" phase. It will soon be available thru DXE as a system >> to >> de-tune a tower but I have no plans to use it on towers being used for >> transmitting, however; I did design a system for doing that which only >> requires adding one RJ1A or Kilovac HC1 type vacuum relay. I built one of >> those for K3UL which he has not yet installed. I will send you the drawing >> if I can find it on my computer. How are you feeding your tower? Gamma or >> what? >> >> 73, de gary, kd9sv >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David >> Olean >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:30 PM >> To: Topband Reflector >> Subject: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >> >> I have been putzing around trying to improve my 160 meter setup, and >> have run into a real problem. Most of the USA is covered by two >> directions from here in Maine. SW and W. My problem is that I have an >> excessively high noise level on both of the beverages that run in these >> directions. In the last six months it has gotten worse, and so bad that >> I cannot use either beverage. The wires terminate at the side of my >> barn where I have ground rods and the RG-6 goes through PVC conduit up >> to the shack on the second floor of the barn. During the day I see >> noise levels at -133 or -132 on the two wires, but at night the noise >> had climbed to levels around -100 or to -110 on a good night. I >> suspected that I was getting noise coupled in from my vertical which is >> rather close and on the other side of my barn all of 55 ft away. >> >> Yesterday, I modified the west beverage and shortened it so that it >> terminated about 150 feet away from the barn and I ran new coax back >> across the field. I kept the SW beverage as is to compare noise levels >> at night. Lo and behold, but the noise went to -110 on the SW beverage, >> but only about -120 dBm on the modified beverage. This is a 10 dB >> improvement. Other directions at night run at about -130, so I am now >> seeing a 10 dB extra hit in noise to the west. >> >> The vertical is a shunt fed Rohn 25 with a total height just over 90 ft >> with top loading from a 5 element long boom 10 Meter yagi. I am not sure >> if it is possible to simply un resonate this tower. Does anyone have >> experience with simple ways to decouple a shunt fed tower from the rx >> antennas? >> >> The extra 10 dB of noise that I get to the west and SW is mostly due to >> the location of a town about 7 or 8 miles away in NH. It is ripe with >> all sorts of power line noise. I still can't rule out re radiation from >> the vertical though! I spent many years fighting with the electric >> utility to quell the noise. I involved Riley Hollingsworth and later on, >> Laura Smith, his replacement. The effort was futile and I lost heart as >> the problem was just too big for one person to fight. I was hoping that >> the noise would not affect 160 meters as it had messed up my VHF >> exploits, and so far I only have this ten dB swath of noise that bothers >> me in two directions. >> >> Any help with un resonating a shunt fed tower would be appreciated. >> >> Dave K1WHS >> >> >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> http://www.avg.com >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages
Hi Gary Would you send the info you have re. tower detuning that you designed for K3UR. (Am using 1/4 wl tower with elevated radials) Thank you Joel k4wm Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 6, 2018, at 13:42, Herbert Schoenbohm > wrote: > > Great work Gary! This is probably a way that is much less expensive than > the commercial version of doing this. > > https://www.lbagroup.com/products/detunipole-detuning-skirt-kit > > Herb, KV4FZ > >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:28 PM, kd9sv wrote: >> >> Herb, FYI...gary, kd9sv >> >> -Original Message- >> From: kd9sv [mailto:kd...@comcast.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:59 PM >> To: 'David Olean' >> Subject: RE: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >> >> Dave, I have recently developed a simple "tower de-tuning system" that is >> in >> the "Beta Testing" phase. It will soon be available thru DXE as a system >> to >> de-tune a tower but I have no plans to use it on towers being used for >> transmitting, however; I did design a system for doing that which only >> requires adding one RJ1A or Kilovac HC1 type vacuum relay. I built one of >> those for K3UL which he has not yet installed. I will send you the drawing >> if I can find it on my computer. How are you feeding your tower? Gamma or >> what? >> >> 73, de gary, kd9sv >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David >> Olean >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:30 PM >> To: Topband Reflector >> Subject: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages >> >> I have been putzing around trying to improve my 160 meter setup, and >> have run into a real problem. Most of the USA is covered by two >> directions from here in Maine. SW and W. My problem is that I have an >> excessively high noise level on both of the beverages that run in these >> directions. In the last six months it has gotten worse, and so bad that >> I cannot use either beverage. The wires terminate at the side of my >> barn where I have ground rods and the RG-6 goes through PVC conduit up >> to the shack on the second floor of the barn. During the day I see >> noise levels at -133 or -132 on the two wires, but at night the noise >> had climbed to levels around -100 or to -110 on a good night. I >> suspected that I was getting noise coupled in from my vertical which is >> rather close and on the other side of my barn all of 55 ft away. >> >> Yesterday, I modified the west beverage and shortened it so that it >> terminated about 150 feet away from the barn and I ran new coax back >> across the field. I kept the SW beverage as is to compare noise levels >> at night. Lo and behold, but the noise went to -110 on the SW beverage, >> but only about -120 dBm on the modified beverage. This is a 10 dB >> improvement. Other directions at night run at about -130, so I am now >> seeing a 10 dB extra hit in noise to the west. >> >> The vertical is a shunt fed Rohn 25 with a total height just over 90 ft >> with top loading from a 5 element long boom 10 Meter yagi. I am not sure >> if it is possible to simply un resonate this tower. Does anyone have >> experience with simple ways to decouple a shunt fed tower from the rx >> antennas? >> >> The extra 10 dB of noise that I get to the west and SW is mostly due to >> the location of a town about 7 or 8 miles away in NH. It is ripe with >> all sorts of power line noise. I still can't rule out re radiation from >> the vertical though! I spent many years fighting with the electric >> utility to quell the noise. I involved Riley Hollingsworth and later on, >> Laura Smith, his replacement. The effort was futile and I lost heart as >> the problem was just too big for one person to fight. I was hoping that >> the noise would not affect 160 meters as it had messed up my VHF >> exploits, and so far I only have this ten dB swath of noise that bothers >> me in two directions. >> >> Any help with un resonating a shunt fed tower would be appreciated. >> >> Dave K1WHS >> >> >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> http://www.avg.com >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: FW: Excessive noise on beverages
Great work Gary! This is probably a way that is much less expensive than the commercial version of doing this. https://www.lbagroup.com/products/detunipole-detuning-skirt-kit Herb, KV4FZ On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 2:28 PM, kd9sv wrote: > Herb, FYI...gary, kd9sv > > -Original Message- > From: kd9sv [mailto:kd...@comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:59 PM > To: 'David Olean' > Subject: RE: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages > > Dave, I have recently developed a simple "tower de-tuning system" that is > in > the "Beta Testing" phase. It will soon be available thru DXE as a system > to > de-tune a tower but I have no plans to use it on towers being used for > transmitting, however; I did design a system for doing that which only > requires adding one RJ1A or Kilovac HC1 type vacuum relay. I built one of > those for K3UL which he has not yet installed. I will send you the drawing > if I can find it on my computer. How are you feeding your tower? Gamma or > what? > > 73, de gary, kd9sv > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David > Olean > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 12:30 PM > To: Topband Reflector > Subject: Topband: Excessive noise on beverages > > I have been putzing around trying to improve my 160 meter setup, and > have run into a real problem. Most of the USA is covered by two > directions from here in Maine. SW and W. My problem is that I have an > excessively high noise level on both of the beverages that run in these > directions. In the last six months it has gotten worse, and so bad that > I cannot use either beverage. The wires terminate at the side of my > barn where I have ground rods and the RG-6 goes through PVC conduit up > to the shack on the second floor of the barn. During the day I see > noise levels at -133 or -132 on the two wires, but at night the noise > had climbed to levels around -100 or to -110 on a good night. I > suspected that I was getting noise coupled in from my vertical which is > rather close and on the other side of my barn all of 55 ft away. > > Yesterday, I modified the west beverage and shortened it so that it > terminated about 150 feet away from the barn and I ran new coax back > across the field. I kept the SW beverage as is to compare noise levels > at night. Lo and behold, but the noise went to -110 on the SW beverage, > but only about -120 dBm on the modified beverage. This is a 10 dB > improvement. Other directions at night run at about -130, so I am now > seeing a 10 dB extra hit in noise to the west. > > The vertical is a shunt fed Rohn 25 with a total height just over 90 ft > with top loading from a 5 element long boom 10 Meter yagi. I am not sure > if it is possible to simply un resonate this tower. Does anyone have > experience with simple ways to decouple a shunt fed tower from the rx > antennas? > > The extra 10 dB of noise that I get to the west and SW is mostly due to > the location of a town about 7 or 8 miles away in NH. It is ripe with > all sorts of power line noise. I still can't rule out re radiation from > the vertical though! I spent many years fighting with the electric > utility to quell the noise. I involved Riley Hollingsworth and later on, > Laura Smith, his replacement. The effort was futile and I lost heart as > the problem was just too big for one person to fight. I was hoping that > the noise would not affect 160 meters as it had messed up my VHF > exploits, and so far I only have this ten dB swath of noise that bothers > me in two directions. > > Any help with un resonating a shunt fed tower would be appreciated. > > Dave K1WHS > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
