Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
On 3/13/2012 7:35 PM, N1BUG wrote: On 03/13/2012 03:26 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: That material that looks like superman's zip cord is known as Rural C drop wire. Thanks for the information on this. It is virtually indestructible stuff. At one time I was interested in buying some, but couldn't locate a source. I like the description superman's zip cord ! Paul http://www.ptsupply.com/enterprise.asp This is a source for drop wire. Look at IMSA 28-3 if you want a really strong wire, 10 gauge copper-weld, single strand. 73, Tom, W1TO ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
But you want it insulated. Id suggest #18 Copperweld with a PVC lacket. A PITA to unravel and hold in place but should be up to the task. The stuff the telephone company uses for drops here is 2 x #18 copperweld with very thick insulation (not sure what material). It is made like zip cord and is easily separated into two single insulated conductors. It can sometimes be had for free if you look around. 25 years ago I used the stuff to make my first BOG. It was cut in several places by neighborhood kids, but when cleaning up my property and laying radials 2 years ago I pulled up the sections of it. There had been no critter damage over the years. Paul ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
That material that looks like superman's zip cord is known as Rural C drop wire. My book says that comes in 18.5 gauge (yes, half a gauge!) which is RUS standard #PE-7 spec #4295, 14 and 12 gauge (AWG) configurations which is Bell System Type spec #4283. It lists it as 30% copper CCS wire with a HDPE jacket. Tough stuff. I'm looking in my General Cable catalog and it shows the minimum length as 1,000 feet so it isn't unrealistic to order this stuff if you have a lot of runs to put in. This stuff used to be the standard telephone drop cable used in rural and suburban areas and it is *strong*. The newer cable is a few 24 AWG twisted pairs with a glass fiber support strand and overall PVC jacket. I know the telco guys replace the old cable periodically with the new stuff (like when someone orders a second line or fancy DSL service that needs the twisted pairs) so it might be worth calling the local telco service yard to see if you can get their old scraps if you want to keep it cheap. -Bill The stuff the telephone company uses for drops here is 2 x #18 copperweld with very thick insulation (not sure what material). It is made like zip cord and is easily separated into two single insulated conductors. It can sometimes be had for free if you look around. 25 years ago I used the stuff to make my first BOG. It was cut in several places by neighborhood kids, but when cleaning up my property and laying radials 2 years ago I pulled up the sections of it. There had been no critter damage over the years. Paul ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
I know for a fact that the telco drop wire does not appeal to chewers, I put down a BOG and in one days time it was in 4 pieces, due to mongoose activity, yes one of the fine imported species in Hawaii, Or it could have been rats, we have roof rats that will chew anything in sight also. The wire was teflon insulated, and they did not mind the teflon. but while clearing part of this 30 acres I ran across a long length of telco drop line that had been laying here since the 1980s, it was intact and in fine shape, no chew marks, dont know what the difference is but it the rodents did not take a liking to it. Above ground beverages have to be 10 to 12 foot up due to the hundreds of deer crossing the property daily. I used WD12 for those runs. Merv K9FD/KH6 That material that looks like superman's zip cord is known as Rural C drop wire. My book says that comes in 18.5 gauge (yes, half a gauge!) which is RUS standard #PE-7 spec #4295, 14 and 12 gauge (AWG) configurations which is Bell System Type spec #4283. It lists it as 30% copper CCS wire with a HDPE jacket. Tough stuff. I'm looking in my General Cable catalog and it shows the minimum length as 1,000 feet so it isn't unrealistic to order this stuff if you have a lot of runs to put in. This stuff used to be the standard telephone drop cable used in rural and suburban areas and it is *strong*. The newer cable is a few 24 AWG twisted pairs with a glass fiber support strand and overall PVC jacket. I know the telco guys replace the old cable periodically with the new stuff (like when someone orders a second line or fancy DSL service that needs the twisted pairs) so it might be worth calling the local telco service yard to see if you can get their old scraps if you want to keep it cheap. -Bill ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
I echo Merv's comments. Here in the US Southwest the main chewing culprits are Javelina and Pack Rats. Any normal coaxial cable of the RG-59 and RG-6 type, zip cord, or house wiring type cable is regularly and consistently chewed and/or cut in two by these animals. I have found two replacements which have solved the problem in my installations. For coax, the PE covered and flooded 1/2 CATV hardline takes care of the coaxial cable requirement. For on ground or near ground Beverage wires the Rural C wire, as Merv and others have commented, is NOT bothered by the animals. Another distinct advantage to the C wire is its strength. I have a couple of long, phased, on the ground Bevs made of C wire. The wires are attached at each end with the regular wire holders designed for the wire, held in place by the ground rods. I place the ground rod acorn connector above the wire attachment to preclude the attachment slipping off. I put more than 100 lbs. of tension on the wire (yes, it is made to make LONG aerial spans on poles spaced as much as 600' feet apart) which keeps the wire tight on the ground. At contest time I walk the Bevs and place temporary risers under the C wire to make it a normal above ground Bev. This is all in an area which is frequented by grazing cows. When the C wire is on the ground the cows just walk on it. When installed on the temporary risers the cows (or strong winds) can push the wires over and it just returns to the ground due to the tension. There is no chance of the animals becoming entangled in the wire or the wire being destroyed. YMMV, de Milt, N5IA -Original Message- From: Merv Schweigert Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 2:01 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough? I know for a fact that the telco drop wire does not appeal to chewers, I put down a BOG and in one days time it was in 4 pieces, due to mongoose activity, yes one of the fine imported species in Hawaii, Or it could have been rats, we have roof rats that will chew anything in sight also. The wire was teflon insulated, and they did not mind the teflon. but while clearing part of this 30 acres I ran across a long length of telco drop line that had been laying here since the 1980s, it was intact and in fine shape, no chew marks, dont know what the difference is but it the rodents did not take a liking to it. Above ground beverages have to be 10 to 12 foot up due to the hundreds of deer crossing the property daily. I used WD12 for those runs. Merv K9FD/KH6 That material that looks like superman's zip cord is known as Rural C drop wire. My book says that comes in 18.5 gauge (yes, half a gauge!) which is RUS standard #PE-7 spec #4295, 14 and 12 gauge (AWG) configurations which is Bell System Type spec #4283. It lists it as 30% copper CCS wire with a HDPE jacket. Tough stuff. I'm looking in my General Cable catalog and it shows the minimum length as 1,000 feet so it isn't unrealistic to order this stuff if you have a lot of runs to put in. This stuff used to be the standard telephone drop cable used in rural and suburban areas and it is *strong*. The newer cable is a few 24 AWG twisted pairs with a glass fiber support strand and overall PVC jacket. I know the telco guys replace the old cable periodically with the new stuff (like when someone orders a second line or fancy DSL service that needs the twisted pairs) so it might be worth calling the local telco service yard to see if you can get their old scraps if you want to keep it cheap. -Bill ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4868 - Release Date: 03/13/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
On 03/13/2012 03:26 PM, Bill Wichers wrote: That material that looks like superman's zip cord is known as Rural C drop wire. Thanks for the information on this. It is virtually indestructible stuff. At one time I was interested in buying some, but couldn't locate a source. I like the description superman's zip cord ! Paul ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
Speaking of tongue in cheek, I'll bite. Has anyone found a wire covering that the critters do not like to lunch on, or are they using it for dental floss ? 73 Bruce - Original Message - From: Pete Smith N4ZR n...@contesting.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough? F'heaven's sake, Garry, I meant naive about how widely they range in the East, and it was all tongue in cheek, from beginning to end. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 4:31 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: Westerners naive about coyotes? That is an interesting concept. DC and NYC are within the natural range of coyotes, but I have serious doubts about England. Coyote urine may work, but it did not keep my feedlines from being chewed by (eastern) Grey Squirrels that have displaced the native brown units. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 1:01 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Man, you Westerners are naive! We even have coyotes in downtown Washington and New York City. Ratty looking, but out there hunting. Anyhow, the general idea is pick something the the wee beasties don't like, and lay it on! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 3:57 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: My experience with canid (coyote and wolf) urines suggests that if canids are not the local predator of interest--coyotes in England?--it may not work. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 6:15 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Two words - coyote urine. Seriously the local Southern States sells a critter repellent based on dried coyote urine. In our case, the biggest critter problem with my BOG so far has been deer - tangle-footed beasts! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 9:11 AM, Tracey Gardner wrote: I'd be interested to know what critter/rodent damage these BOGs get? My experience, in the UK, of leaving the last 60m of my Beverage lying on the ground for a few days, is that the insulation got chewed through in seven places. I would be interested in trying a BOG but I have a feeling that it wouldn't last long here. 73s Tracey G5VU ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
I don't know, so I am asking. What about using galvanized fencing wire? This stuff is tough, and doesn't rust, even when outside for a decade. I'd like to see a squirell (or any critter) gnaw through that. I have a hard time with my side cutters. I make dipole, etc. out of it and it really seems to last. Makes a mess of my lawn tractor blades. Will that work? MikeAA VE9AA ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
The common wisdom passed to me is that they don't like PE as well as they like PVC. However, all my PE-jacketed coax rotator loops 130' up on a redwood tree were munched to oblivion in the past year. They are being held together with Scotch 33 until I can pull everything down this Spring. And Press of The Wireman told me the varmints like PE only slightly less than they like PVC. We are supposedly looking into armoring the coax with SS braid! Most coatings wash off in the rains. I have no idea what the ultimate solution might be. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 6:21 PM, Bruce wrote: Speaking of tongue in cheek, I'll bite. Has anyone found a wire covering that the critters do not like to lunch on, or are they using it for dental floss ? 73 Bruce - Original Message - From: Pete Smith N4ZRn...@contesting.com To:topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough? F'heaven's sake, Garry, I meant naive about how widely they range in the East, and it was all tongue in cheek, from beginning to end. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 4:31 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: Westerners naive about coyotes? That is an interesting concept. DC and NYC are within the natural range of coyotes, but I have serious doubts about England. Coyote urine may work, but it did not keep my feedlines from being chewed by (eastern) Grey Squirrels that have displaced the native brown units. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 1:01 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Man, you Westerners are naive! We even have coyotes in downtown Washington and New York City. Ratty looking, but out there hunting. Anyhow, the general idea is pick something the the wee beasties don't like, and lay it on! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 3:57 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: My experience with canid (coyote and wolf) urines suggests that if canids are not the local predator of interest--coyotes in England?--it may not work. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 6:15 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Two words - coyote urine. Seriously the local Southern States sells a critter repellent based on dried coyote urine. In our case, the biggest critter problem with my BOG so far has been deer - tangle-footed beasts! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 9:11 AM, Tracey Gardner wrote: I'd be interested to know what critter/rodent damage these BOGs get? My experience, in the UK, of leaving the last 60m of my Beverage lying on the ground for a few days, is that the insulation got chewed through in seven places. I would be interested in trying a BOG but I have a feeling that it wouldn't last long here. 73s Tracey G5VU ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
On 13/03/2012 01:21, Bruce wrote: Speaking of tongue in cheek, I'll bite. Has anyone found a wire covering that the critters do not like to lunch on, or are they using it for dental floss ? 73 Bruce The only armouring that I ever had any success with is brass tape. The rodents still manage to damage it .. but the subsequent damage to them is far greater. Many thousands of miles of it in use here in rat filled tunnels alongside the railways. Cables carrying AC always seem to be damaged last. -- 73 de Paul GW8IZR IO73TI http://www.gw8izr.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Fw: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough?
first, try not to handle stuff with out latex glove,,, they including politicians are are attracted to the salt of our labor from us john w8wej On 3/13/2012 1:21 AM, Bruce wrote: Speaking of tongue in cheek, I'll bite. Has anyone found a wire covering that the critters do not like to lunch on, or are they using it for dental floss ? 73 Bruce - Original Message - From: Pete Smith N4ZRn...@contesting.com To:topband@contesting.com Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Deterring Critters was:Re: How Good is Good Enough? F'heaven's sake, Garry, I meant naive about how widely they range in the East, and it was all tongue in cheek, from beginning to end. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 4:31 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: Westerners naive about coyotes? That is an interesting concept. DC and NYC are within the natural range of coyotes, but I have serious doubts about England. Coyote urine may work, but it did not keep my feedlines from being chewed by (eastern) Grey Squirrels that have displaced the native brown units. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 1:01 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Man, you Westerners are naive! We even have coyotes in downtown Washington and New York City. Ratty looking, but out there hunting. Anyhow, the general idea is pick something the the wee beasties don't like, and lay it on! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 3:57 PM, Garry Shapiro wrote: My experience with canid (coyote and wolf) urines suggests that if canids are not the local predator of interest--coyotes in England?--it may not work. Garry, NI6T On 3/12/2012 6:15 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: Two words - coyote urine. Seriously the local Southern States sells a critter repellent based on dried coyote urine. In our case, the biggest critter problem with my BOG so far has been deer - tangle-footed beasts! 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 3/12/2012 9:11 AM, Tracey Gardner wrote: I'd be interested to know what critter/rodent damage these BOGs get? My experience, in the UK, of leaving the last 60m of my Beverage lying on the ground for a few days, is that the insulation got chewed through in seven places. I would be interested in trying a BOG but I have a feeling that it wouldn't last long here. 73s Tracey G5VU No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4255 - Release Date: 03/06/12 19:34:00 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
