Re: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
. I told my YF On 09/24/15, k1zm--- via Topband wrote: Hi guys You have both surfaced a topic that is of great personal interest to me as I have worked JA on 160m around 2100z both from K1ZM on Cape Cod and from VY2ZM on PEI many many times. The conventional wisdom is that signals propagate SE over Africa and VK6 on Topband at 2100z but I no longer believe this to be cast in concrete. Why? I have had many many contacts with JH7PFD starting as early as 2024z from PEI and Kin san has many beverages from which to select. Among them are ones that look at 220 degrees and some that look over the North pole on either side. Carl suggests here in his posting that the JA's listen at 220 degrees for NA at this time - but time and time again Kin-San has reported that my160m signal is inaudible from the SW near his SR - instead he hears me from the NE which is short path. On my side. I can aim my 160M antenna such that it is firing due North with 6.0db of directional gain and I too hear Kin san and JA8ISU at this time from this heading - and not out of the SE path. Now how can this be true? Well, if one takes a look at the plot that Carl has included in his article, you can see the RED short path to which he refers is also in darkness at 2100z - and my postulation and Kin-san's is that the true path by which we are communicating is over North pole and not over VK6 at all. This observation has been reported by some other JA observants as well. I should note, though, that from NY, Cape Cod and from PEI on 80m the 80m path is indeed SE and SW at 2100z but not on Topband which has always puzzled me. What makes this so had to fathom is that the window of opportunity to do this occurs each Winter season from roughly 05 Dec to 15 January typically each year and that so few of us have truly directive Xmit and Rx antennas on Topband with which to make really precise observations. Bottom Line for me? This160m path is over the North and not over Vk6 on Topband and having worked HUNDREDS of JA's on 160m at 2100z from VY2ZM - I do believe my own ears and equipment.- despite what I had always previously thought. By the way - this path has (to my knowledge) only been worked from Eastern Canada, Maine, Mass and in Connecticut (by K1KI on the Mass/Conn line). I know it has been heard (not worked) from RI on 160m by John W1XX - but no qso's that I am aware of have ever been made further South of New England on Topband. The overlapping darkness that is needed to sustain propagation just does not make it down to even W2 usually on Topband. Hope this adds something to the mix. 73 JEFF K1ZM/VY2ZM -Original Message- From: Dave Bowker via Topband topband@contesting.com> To: topband topband@contesting.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 24, 2015 4:03 pm Subject: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path Carl, K9LA, has posted an interesting analysis of a skewed path TopBand QSO in the August 15 'Monthly Feature' on his site. http://k9la.us/Aug15_K1FK_to_JA_on_160m_via_Long_Path.pdf Dave, K1FKFort Kent, ME _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
Sorry - that e-mail escaped. 73 de Gene Smar AD3F On 09/25/15, Gene Smar wrote: . I told my YF On 09/24/15, k1zm--- via Topband wrote: Hi guys You have both surfaced a topic that is of great personal interest to me as I have worked JA on 160m around 2100z both from K1ZM on Cape Cod and from VY2ZM on PEI many many times. The conventional wisdom is that signals propagate SE over Africa and VK6 on Topband at 2100z but I no longer believe this to be cast in concrete. Why? I have had many many contacts with JH7PFD starting as early as 2024z from PEI and Kin san has many beverages from which to select. Among them are ones that look at 220 degrees and some that look over the North pole on either side. Carl suggests here in his posting that the JA's listen at 220 degrees for NA at this time - but time and time again Kin-San has reported that my160m signal is inaudible from the SW near his SR - instead he hears me from the NE which is short path. On my side. I can aim my 160M antenna such that it is firing due North with 6.0db of directional gain and I too hear Kin san and JA8ISU at this time from this heading - and not out of the SE path. Now how can this be true? Well, if one takes a look at the plot that Carl has included in his article, you can see the RED short path to which he refers is also in darkness at 2100z - and my postulation and Kin-san's is that the true path by which we are communicating is over North pole and not over VK6 at all. This observation has been reported by some other JA observants as well. I should note, though, that from NY, Cape Cod and from PEI on 80m the 80m path is indeed SE and SW at 2100z but not on Topband which has always puzzled me. What makes this so had to fathom is that the window of opportunity to do this occurs each Winter season from roughly 05 Dec to 15 January typically each year and that so few of us have truly directive Xmit and Rx antennas on Topband with which to make really precise observations. Bottom Line for me? This160m path is over the North and not over Vk6 on Topband and having worked HUNDREDS of JA's on 160m at 2100z from VY2ZM - I do believe my own ears and equipment.- despite what I had always previously thought. By the way - this path has (to my knowledge) only been worked from Eastern Canada, Maine, Mass and in Connecticut (by K1KI on the Mass/Conn line). I know it has been heard (not worked) from RI on 160m by John W1XX - but no qso's that I am aware of have ever been made further South of New England on Topband. The overlapping darkness that is needed to sustain propagation just does not make it down to even W2 usually on Topband. Hope this adds something to the mix. 73 JEFF K1ZM/VY2ZM -Original Message- From: Dave Bowker via Topband topband@contesting.com> To: topband topband@contesting.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 24, 2015 4:03 pm Subject: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path Carl, K9LA, has posted an interesting analysis of a skewed path TopBand QSO in the August 15 'Monthly Feature' on his site. http://k9la.us/Aug15_K1FK_to_JA_on_160m_via_Long_Path.pdf Dave, K1FKFort Kent, ME _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
In the summer, I often worked far northern Europe east or south east at my sunset. Sometimes it is day after day. I've worked some far east Asians, but not Japan, east or south east at my sunset. Where it is dark or almost dark, the signal might go. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
Carl, K9LA, has posted an interesting analysis of a skewed path TopBand QSO in the August 15 'Monthly Feature' on his site. http://k9la.us/Aug15_K1FK_to_JA_on_160m_via_Long_Path.pdf Dave, K1FKFort Kent, ME _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
Hi guys You have both surfaced a topic that is of great personal interest to me as I have worked JA on 160m around 2100z both from K1ZM on Cape Cod and from VY2ZM on PEI many many times. The conventional wisdom is that signals propagate SE over Africa and VK6 on Topband at 2100z but I no longer believe this to be cast in concrete. Why? I have had many many contacts with JH7PFD starting as early as 2024z from PEI and Kin san has many beverages from which to select. Among them are ones that look at 220 degrees and some that look over the North pole on either side. Carl suggests here in his posting that the JA's listen at 220 degrees for NA at this time - but time and time again Kin-San has reported that my160m signal is inaudible from the SW near his SR - instead he hears me from the NE which is short path. On my side. I can aim my 160M antenna such that it is firing due North with 6.0db of directional gain and I too hear Kin san and JA8ISU at this time from this heading - and not out of the SE path. Now how can this be true? Well, if one takes a look at the plot that Carl has included in his article, you can see the RED short path to which he refers is also in darkness at 2100z - and my postulation and Kin-san's is that the true path by which we are communicating is over North pole and not over VK6 at all. This observation has been reported by some other JA observants as well. I should note, though, that from NY, Cape Cod and from PEI on 80m the 80m path is indeed SE and SW at 2100z but not on Topband which has always puzzled me. What makes this so had to fathom is that the window of opportunity to do this occurs each Winter season from roughly 05 Dec to 15 January typically each year and that so few of us have truly directive Xmit and Rx antennas on Topband with which to make really precise observations. Bottom Line for me? This160m path is over the North and not over Vk6 on Topband and having worked HUNDREDS of JA's on 160m at 2100z from VY2ZM - I do believe my own ears and equipment.- despite what I had always previously thought. By the way - this path has (to my knowledge) only been worked from Eastern Canada, Maine, Mass and in Connecticut (by K1KI on the Mass/Conn line). I know it has been heard (not worked) from RI on 160m by John W1XX - but no qso's that I am aware of have ever been made further South of New England on Topband. The overlapping darkness that is needed to sustain propagation just does not make it down to even W2 usually on Topband. Hope this adds something to the mix. 73 JEFF K1ZM/VY2ZM -Original Message- From: Dave Bowker via Topband <topband@contesting.com> To: topband <topband@contesting.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 24, 2015 4:03 pm Subject: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path Carl, K9LA, has posted an interesting analysis of a skewed path TopBand QSO in the August 15 'Monthly Feature' on his site. http://k9la.us/Aug15_K1FK_to_JA_on_160m_via_Long_Path.pdf Dave, K1FKFort Kent, ME _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: K1FK to JA Via 160-Meter Long Path
I just wanted to add another data point to this subject. I have heard LP JA's on 160 on several occasions from my location in FN42 (eastern MA), anywhere from 2120Z to 2200Z in December and January, going back to 1994 or thereabouts. I was never able to work any because they were working Europe and it was not possible for me to break through the Europeans. I would estimate that I have heard about 10 different JA stations on LP. With one exception, they were all from the SE direction, received on a 150m long Beverage aimed at 140 degrees. The one exception was one time when I heard JA1JRK and another JA (I forget the call) peaking from the NE direction after my sunset. However, I have not heard any LP JA on 160 in over 10 years. W1 to JA via LP is indeed a very difficult path on 160. It occurs only very rarely here and the openings are very short. Also, as noted, we have to compete with Europe, which has an opening to JA at the same time. 73, John W1FV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
