Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Joe Giacobello, K2XX via Topband]

Steve, yes, you're the second person to mention that characteristic.  
Although it makes sense now that you mention it, I really didn't 
appreciate that difference.  I suspect that the detuning step would be 
worthwhile anyway, and several other respondents have offered some good 
advice on accomplishing that..


Thanks and 73,

Joe
K2XX


Steve Maki 
Monday, July 30, 2018 9:23 PM
I've just recently been reading up on Waller Flags, and am certainly 
no expert, but my impression so far is that an HWF (horizontally 
polarized flag), mounted up in the air on a tower, should be less 
affected by tall vertical thingies in the area; and less prone to 
local noise in the area which is normally vertically polarized, all of 
which is a major attraction of the antenna. So if your nearby 
horizontal items are not long ones in terms of wavelength on the 
frequencies of interest using the flag, I wouldn't expect a problem.


If your plan is a vertically polarized flag, than ignore the previous 
comments.


-Steve K8LX

On 7/29/2018 6:58 PM, Joe Giacobello, K2XX via Topband wrote:


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Joe Giacobello, K2XX 
Sunday, July 29, 2018 6:58 PM
I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights 
aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic, 
RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway 
(150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by 
about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on 
it and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not 
be used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights 
tower would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of 
trying to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of 
the bands involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained 
from an EZNEC simulation, especially since I already have models of 
the two current antennas?


I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before.  I'd 
appreciate any practical advice.



Many thanks and 73,

Joe
K2XX


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Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Kees Nijdam]

It depends not only on distance. Also the gain of both (TX- and RX) antennas 
matters.
The lower the gain of the RX antenna, the more the re-radiating TX antenna (or 
other nearby wires/towers) will modify its pattern. Low gain loops, such as the 
Waller flag, are more critical compared to beverages.
One of my beverages runs 5 meters from my TX antenna, and is useless without 
detuning the TX antenna. The other beverage has its feedpoint at 40 meter 
distance and runs away from the TX antenna and the influence is minimal.
My advice: allways check the interaction by detuning the TX antenna(s). Use an 
AM broadcasting station as reference. 

Kees, PE5T 


Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

Van: W0MU Mike Fatchett
Verzonden: dinsdag 31 juli 2018 00:29
Aan: topband@contesting.com
Onderwerp: Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

Interesting.  My rcv array is probably 500 ft from the Xmit antenna or 
any antenna so I am probably ok?  My 70ft tower is 70ish feet from the 
160 inverted l.  I wonder if there is much to be gained by attempting to 
detune the tower.

W0MU


On 7/30/2018 10:44 AM, Pete Rimmel N8PR wrote:
> Joe,
>
> You might consider that there is interaction of the Waller Flag and 
> the other two towers as well as your transmit antenna while on receive.
>
> I suggest that you detune both of the other towers, as well as the 
> transmit antenna while using the WF on receive to eliminate them 
> re-radiating noise to the WF.
>
> Take a look at my YouTube video entitled:  "N8PR TX Antenna 
> Construction and Detuning effects on receive Noise"
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6PVl7uaBM=257s
>
> I think that you will see that the detuning is worthwhile.
>
> 73,  PeteR  N8PR
> --
>
> 1. Location of WF RX Antenna.  Need Expert Advice
>
> {{I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights
> aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic,
> RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway
> (150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by
> about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on it
> and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not be
> used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights tower
> would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of trying
> to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of the bands
> involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained from an EZNEC
> simulation, especially since I already have models of the two current
> antennas?
>
> I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before. I'd
> appreciate any practical advice.
>
>
> Many thanks and 73,
>
> Joe
> K2XX}}
>
>
>
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Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Steve Maki]

I've just recently been reading up on Waller Flags, and am certainly no 
expert, but my impression so far is that an HWF (horizontally polarized 
flag), mounted up in the air on a tower, should be less affected by tall 
vertical thingies in the area; and less prone to local noise in the area 
which is normally vertically polarized, all of which is a major 
attraction of the antenna. So if your nearby horizontal items are not 
long ones in terms of wavelength on the frequencies of interest using 
the flag, I wouldn't expect a problem.


If your plan is a vertically polarized flag, than ignore the previous 
comments.


-Steve K8LX

On 7/29/2018 6:58 PM, Joe Giacobello, K2XX via Topband wrote:

I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights 
aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic, 
RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway 
(150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by 
about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on it 
and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not be 
used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights tower 
would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of trying 
to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of the bands 
involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained from an EZNEC 
simulation, especially since I already have models of the two current 
antennas?


I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before.  I'd 
appreciate any practical advice.



Many thanks and 73,


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

On 7/30/2018 3:29 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
Interesting.  My rcv array is probably 500 ft from the Xmit antenna or 
any antenna so I am probably ok?  My 70ft tower is 70ish feet from the 
160 inverted l.  I wonder if there is much to be gained by attempting to 
detune the tower.


W0MU



500 feet is only 1 wavelength on top band.
Interaction is entirely possible at that distance.
Two verticals spaced 1/2 wavelength is a commonly
used directional array design.

Rick N6RK

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Re: Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Interesting.  My rcv array is probably 500 ft from the Xmit antenna or 
any antenna so I am probably ok?  My 70ft tower is 70ish feet from the 
160 inverted l.  I wonder if there is much to be gained by attempting to 
detune the tower.


W0MU


On 7/30/2018 10:44 AM, Pete Rimmel N8PR wrote:

Joe,

You might consider that there is interaction of the Waller Flag and 
the other two towers as well as your transmit antenna while on receive.


I suggest that you detune both of the other towers, as well as the 
transmit antenna while using the WF on receive to eliminate them 
re-radiating noise to the WF.


Take a look at my YouTube video entitled:  "N8PR TX Antenna 
Construction and Detuning effects on receive Noise"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6PVl7uaBM=257s

I think that you will see that the detuning is worthwhile.

73,  PeteR  N8PR
--

1. Location of WF RX Antenna.  Need Expert Advice

{{I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights
aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic,
RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway
(150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by
about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on it
and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not be
used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights tower
would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of trying
to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of the bands
involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained from an EZNEC
simulation, especially since I already have models of the two current
antennas?

I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before. I'd
appreciate any practical advice.


Many thanks and 73,

Joe
K2XX}}



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Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Pete Rimmel N8PR]

Joe,

You might consider that there is interaction of the Waller Flag and the 
other two towers as well as your transmit antenna while on receive.


I suggest that you detune both of the other towers, as well as the transmit 
antenna while using the WF on receive to eliminate them re-radiating noise 
to the WF.


Take a look at my YouTube video entitled:  "N8PR TX Antenna Construction and 
Detuning effects on receive Noise"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6PVl7uaBM=257s

I think that you will see that the detuning is worthwhile.

73,  PeteR  N8PR
--

1. Location of WF RX Antenna.  Need Expert Advice

{{I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights
aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic,
RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway
(150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by
about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on it
and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not be
used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights tower
would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of trying
to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of the bands
involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained from an EZNEC
simulation, especially since I already have models of the two current
antennas?

I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before.  I'd
appreciate any practical advice.


Many thanks and 73,

Joe
K2XX}}



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Topband: Location of WF RX Antenna. Need Expert Advice

[Joe Giacobello, K2XX via Topband]

I am hoping to construct a Waller Flag RX antenna on a 56' Heights 
aluminum tower for 80 and 160M RX.  The ideal location from aesthetic, 
RF and maintenance-of-a-civil -family-climate standpoints is midway 
(150' separation) between two existing LM-470 towers now separated by 
about 300'.  One has a 4-element Steppir and a 13-element 2M yagi on it 
and the other a 2 element 30/40M quad.  Obviously, the WF would not be 
used simultaneously as the two existing antennas, and the Heights tower 
would be well grounded..  Am I asking for a round of battles of trying 
to mitigate interaction problems on either TX or RX on any of the bands 
involved?  Would an easy answer to my question be obtained from an EZNEC 
simulation, especially since I already have models of the two current 
antennas?


I suspect other people on this reflector have been here before.  I'd 
appreciate any practical advice.



Many thanks and 73,

Joe
K2XX
_
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