Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Tim Shoppa]

Louis -
  If you try to call someone in the same country and they do not hear you,
I would not assume they have a receive antenna problem. They could have an
8-circle and simply be listening in the wrong direction for you. The
directivity of an 8-circle is astonishing. When I did the Stew Perry from
W3LPL last December, I used Frank's beverages as my "omnidirectional"
antennas into one ear (or sometimes both ears) because being off just 2
notches in 8-circle direction, dropped even strong signals into the noise.

  Amazing. Well-known beverages seemed ominidirectional compared to an
8-circle.

Tim N3QE

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Louis Parascondola via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:

> I also am new to the top band.  Been a ham since 1967 and I suppose I have
> made about 5 contacts on 160 since then.  But now that I have decided to
> make 160m my new challenge I am hooked.  I did know enough by speaking with
> a friend that unless I had a beverage for receive I had better just forge
> about even getting started.  So, he helped me install a beverage.   We
> strung out about 550 feet of wire.  I did not terminate the far end.  The
> other end goes to the balun and is grounded with a ground rod.  I have the
> feed line laying on the ground all the way to the shack window where it
> rises about 7 feet to go indoors.  I made the mistake of thinking the braid
> does not pick up noise and raised the feed line to enter the house through
> the roof area.  So the feedline was raised from the feed point over to the
> house roof.  BIG MISTAKE!  The noise jumped up so high that it was only 2 s
> units better than the 55 foot OCF dipole for 160m  I had to immediately
> return it to the way it wa
>  s on the ground,  In the evening on 160m  The OCF at about 55 feet has a
> noise level of about S8 to S9 and when I switch to the beverage the noise
> is only S1.  It is truly amazing how quiet it is compared.  I can tell when
> I am running DX who is listening on a beverage on their end and who isn't.
> Often I can work all over Europe and get all Q5 reports and answers with
> just one call.  When I try working someone  the same country and they do
> not come back to my call or anyone else's for that matter I know they
> aren't using a beverage.  I know for certain that at least 75% of the
> contacts I have already made I could have never made without the beverage.
> The signals you never know are there come right out of the noise when the
> beverage is selected as the rx antenna.  I also use the same beverage on 80
> and 40 meters with similar results!!  I would have packed up my idea on
> playing with 160m if I did not have a beverage.  You would never get
> anywhere without it in my opinion.  S
>  ure you can make contacts but you will be missing a heck of a lot.  I
> have done zero scientific tests like WHS, but my ear does not lie to me.  I
> have heard you K1WHS on 160, good signal into CT.  73 all Lou W1QJ
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bob Kupps via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
> To: Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net>; topband <topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2015 1:41 am
> Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
>
> My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is
> -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)... 73 Bob HS0ZIA
> From: Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net> To: topband@contesting.com  Sent:
> Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on
> 160   I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my
> house to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since
> then on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160
> Disease, and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has
> nixed anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator,
> but I can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa
> beverage (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that
> antenna. It seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage.
> Recently, I tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail
> down the noise floor using my K3 and P3 panada
>  ptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare with other
> setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used
> the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the vertical. I
> recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 160 contest,
> and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I recorded the
> following numbers...ANTENNA  NOISE LVLDAYTIMEJA  330 deg
> -133-138West 270 deg-125-130SW
> 220 deg  -1

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,12/15/2015 7:31 AM, Tree wrote:

It seemed to be drifting as well.


In general, things that drift are usually generated by some sort of 
electronic clock or switching power supply. OTOH -- might it be some new 
insidious form of microprocessor-based fish beacon?


73, Jim K9YC

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[HankP]

Since the subject of "un-intentional radiators " has come up , I had one
appear about a week ago .  5 very clean very stable -80dBm  carriers
4 khz apart starting at 1815.957, 1819.957, 1823.957, 1827.957 ,1831.954 .

Then Sunday evening  at 0446 I moved my amp back to 160 and when I sent
 my call , looked at the P3 panadapter and there was a comb
from at least 1710 to 1910 every 4 khz. I cannot swear it changed from
5 carriers to a comb when  I popped 1500 watts out - but it is now on
24 hours a day.  

It nulls NE/SW so is possibly from a new neighbor who seems to be running 
a business about 250 feet away from my loop to SW - and I suspect some
sort of router.

Today I will wind up a ferrite rod loopstick for my R10 rx and go sleuthing
I cannot detect it anywhere except the 1710 to 1910 range - nil on 80 and above.
There may be some weaker stuff below 1710 but hard to tell . 

Any gurus out there have an idea ? 

Thanks

 Hank K7HP  






_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Louis Parascondola via Topband]

I also am new to the top band.  Been a ham since 1967 and I suppose I have made 
about 5 contacts on 160 since then.  But now that I have decided to make 160m 
my new challenge I am hooked.  I did know enough by speaking with a friend that 
unless I had a beverage for receive I had better just forge about even getting 
started.  So, he helped me install a beverage.   We strung out about 550 feet 
of wire.  I did not terminate the far end.  The other end goes to the balun and 
is grounded with a ground rod.  I have the feed line laying on the ground all 
the way to the shack window where it rises about 7 feet to go indoors.  I made 
the mistake of thinking the braid does not pick up noise and raised the feed 
line to enter the house through the roof area.  So the feedline was raised from 
the feed point over to the house roof.  BIG MISTAKE!  The noise jumped up so 
high that it was only 2 s units better than the 55 foot OCF dipole for 160m  I 
had to immediately return it to the way it wa
 s on the ground,  In the evening on 160m  The OCF at about 55 feet has a noise 
level of about S8 to S9 and when I switch to the beverage the noise is only S1. 
 It is truly amazing how quiet it is compared.  I can tell when I am running DX 
who is listening on a beverage on their end and who isn't.  Often I can work 
all over Europe and get all Q5 reports and answers with just one call.  When I 
try working someone  the same country and they do not come back to my call or 
anyone else's for that matter I know they aren't using a beverage.  I know for 
certain that at least 75% of the contacts I have already made I could have 
never made without the beverage.  The signals you never know are there come 
right out of the noise when the beverage is selected as the rx antenna.  I also 
use the same beverage on 80 and 40 meters with similar results!!  I would have 
packed up my idea on playing with 160m if I did not have a beverage.  You would 
never get anywhere without it in my opinion.  S
 ure you can make contacts but you will be missing a heck of a lot.  I have 
done zero scientific tests like WHS, but my ear does not lie to me.  I have 
heard you K1WHS on 160, good signal into CT.  73 all Lou W1QJ



-Original Message-
From: Bob Kupps via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
To: Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net>; topband <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2015 1:41 am
Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is -100 
dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)... 73 Bob HS0ZIA  From: Dave 
Olean <k1...@metrocast.net> To: topband@contesting.com  Sent: Tuesday, December 
8, 2015 3:30 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160   I am somewhat new 
to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to a 160 M 1/4 wave 
radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a casual basis. 
Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and have been looking 
for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big (no more towers) so 
I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work on the receiving side. 
I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise 
level on that antenna. It seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe 
beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to 
nail down the noise floor using my K3 and P3 panada
 ptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare with other 
setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used the 
preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the vertical. I recorded 
these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 160 contest, and then 
again, the following Monday during the day.  I recorded the following 
numbers...ANTENNA  NOISE LVLDAYTIMEJA  330 deg-133  
  -138West 270 deg-125-130SW  220 deg  
-125-132Africa 100 deg-136-144Europe  
45 deg-138-142Vertical Antenna  -115
-123All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That 
is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving 
target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span of 
the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well wi
 th the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few 
beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 270 
degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than the 
wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line noise. 
I am sure that noise is killing my receive.I guess I should make a real 
measurement of my noise floor at a specified bandwidth of the receiver. That 
would require more work! I took the easy way a

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Tree]

K1WHS writes:

"There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it
yet."

I just saw a very similar noise on the panadapter the other night.  It was
just
about exactly 20 kHz wide - and had pretty sharp edges to it.  It was also
about
5 db above the normal noise - and I could see it on 3 different antennas.
It
seemed to be drifting as well.   You could barely hear the difference in
noise
with the ear as you tuned into it - but it was very obvious on the K3
display.

I had never seen it before - and maybe it is somehow connected to the wet
weather
we have recently been having.

Tree N6TR

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Bob Kupps via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:

> My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is
> -100 dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)...
> 73 Bob HS0ZIA
>   From: Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net>
>  To: topband@contesting.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM
>  Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
>
> I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house
> to
> a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a
> casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and
> have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything
> big
> (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work
> on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az)
> and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low
> and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each
> beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3
> and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare
> with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2
> kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the
> vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL
> 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I
> recorded the following numbers...
>
> ANTENNA  NOISE LVLDAYTIME
> JA  330 deg-133-138
> West 270 deg-125-130
> SW  220 deg  -125-132
> Africa 100 deg-136-144
> Europe  45 deg-138-142
> Vertical Antenna  -115-123
>
> All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That
> is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving
> target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz
> span
> of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the
> vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few
> beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and
> 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than
> the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line
> noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
> I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a
> specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took
> the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass
> level".
> What numbers do others see on 160?
> I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor
> across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my
> location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and
> goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second
> or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that
> repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
> my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5
> dB
> above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it
> yet.
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Bob Kupps via Topband]

My daytime noise level from the 160m xmit vertical using your settings is -100 
dBm. The S meter on the K3 reads S7 (absolute)... 
73 Bob HS0ZIA
  From: Dave Olean <k1...@metrocast.net>
 To: topband@contesting.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2015 3:30 AM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160
   
I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to 
a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a 
casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and 
have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big 
(no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work 
on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) 
and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low 
and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each 
beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3 
and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare 
with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 
kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the 
vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 
160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I 
recorded the following numbers...

ANTENNA          NOISE LVL    DAYTIME
JA  330 deg            -133                -138
West 270 deg        -125                -130
SW  220 deg          -125                -132
Africa 100 deg        -136                -144
Europe  45 deg        -138                -142
Vertical Antenna      -115                -123

All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That 
is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving 
target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span 
of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the 
vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few 
beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 
270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than 
the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line 
noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
    I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a 
specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took 
the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". 
What numbers do others see on 160?
    I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor 
across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my 
location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and 
goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second 
or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that 
repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to 
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB 
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it 
yet.

Dave K1WHS

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


 
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Mike Waters]

Hi Dave,

Did anyone respond to you about this? (If I wasn't so busy right now, I
would.) But I believe that the answers may be in the searchable archives.

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Dave Olean  wrote:

> I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house
> to a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then
> on a casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease,
> and have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed
> anything big (no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I
> can still work on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage
> (100 degree az) and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It
> seems extremely low and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I
> tried measuring each beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the
> noise floor using my K3 and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are
> good and how they compare with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3
> at the narrowest span, 2 kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and
> the preamp off for the vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday
> evening during the ARRL 160 contest, and then again, the following Monday
> during the day.  I recorded the following numbers...
>
> ANTENNA   NOISE LVLDAYTIME
> JA  330 deg-133-138
> West 270 deg -125-130
> SW  220 deg  -125-132
> Africa 100 deg -136-144
> Europe  45 deg-138-142
> Vertical Antenna  -115-123
>
> All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That
> is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving
> target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz
> span of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with
> the vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few
> beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and
> 270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier
> than the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power
> line noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
>I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a
> specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took
> the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass
> level". What numbers do others see on 160?
>I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor
> across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my
> location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and
> goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second
> or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that
> repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to
> my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5
> dB above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found
> it yet.
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Noise levels on 160

[Dave Olean]

I am somewhat new to 160 meters. I converted an old VHF tower at my house to 
a 160 M 1/4 wave radiator in late 2013 and have been active since then on a 
casual basis. Recently I started showing symptoms of the 160 Disease, and 
have been looking for ways to improve things. The XYL has nixed anything big 
(no more towers) so I am stuck with a single radiator, but I can still work 
on the receiving side. I just built up an Africa beverage (100 degree az) 
and was happy with the noise level on that antenna. It seems extremely low 
and about as good as my Europe beverage. Recently, I tried measuring each 
beverage and the vertical antenna to nail down the noise floor using my K3 
and P3 panadaptor. I wonder if these numbers are good and how they compare 
with other setups.  For the record, I set the P3 at the narrowest span, 2 
kHz. I used the preamp ON for the beverages and the preamp off for the 
vertical. I recorded these levels on late Saturday evening during the ARRL 
160 contest, and then again, the following Monday during the day.  I 
recorded the following numbers...


ANTENNA   NOISE LVLDAYTIME
JA  330 deg-133-138
West 270 deg -125-130
SW  220 deg  -125-132
Africa 100 deg -136-144
Europe  45 deg-138-142
Vertical Antenna  -115-123

All measurements were taken with the P3 panadaptor set at 2 kHz span. That 
is important. K3 preamp is ON.  These numbers taken at night are a moving 
target. The noise can vary from hour to hour. I looked across the 2 kHz span 
of the P3 and averaged what I saw. I seem to hear reasonably well with the 
vertical, and in the past used it quite often. Now that I have a few 
beverages, I hardly ever listen on the vertical anymore. Both the 220 and 
270 degree beverages suffer from power line noise and are 10 dB noisier than 
the wires aimed East.  I am thinking about maybe nulling out the power line 
noise. I am sure that noise is killing my receive.
   I guess I should make a real measurement of my noise floor at a 
specified bandwidth of the receiver. That would require more work! I took 
the easy way and set the P3 at minimum span and looked at the "grass level". 
What numbers do others see on 160?
   I live in a rural area in Maine near the NH border.  I have a neighbor 
across the street and another two about 1000 to 1200 ft away. I think my 
location is pretty quiet, but I do often see interference that comes and 
goes. I always hear two electric fences. One is a single snap every second 
or so. The other is a pulsing burst of noise that lasts maybe 300 ms that 
repeats every second or so. There is also a rather broad drifting signal to 
my NE that is about 20 kHz wide and drifts around 1820 kHz. It is about 5 dB 
above the normal noise. I suspect it is a mile away, but have not found it 
yet.


Dave K1WHS

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband