Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
I think your take - knowing what the distribution is - is a worthy consideration, Tod. Using a technique called Bernard's approximation and given, oh, six to ten data points, and some graphing paper one could complete a in the ball park analysis of the type of distribution. Is it a Weibull distribution with a K of 1.5? Is it a lognormal? Is it?? I wouldn't be surprised if knowing the distribution wouldn't account for imbalances in the lengths and population of the radial/coutnerpoise wire laydown. Good catch! Might be an interesting exercise, 'eh? Sigh, ah for the good 'ol days of statistical analysis as I wandered through my M.S. in Systems Engineering coursework, focused on statistical analysis and processes at Southern Methodist UniversityI can feel the remnants of numerous attempts to erase errors on my pencil and paper calculations for an exam! Smiling HUGELY - 72, Jim Rodenkirch, K9JWV Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:30:52 -0600 From: t...@k0to.us To: li...@subich.com; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band... A trivial point in this discussion, but of some consequence in assessment of data, the average is almost always NOT the 50% point of a population. The Median is the midpoint -- that is 50% of the population is above and 50% below the Median. The Average [or Mean] for a population is very dependent on the distribution of the elements of the population. It is entirely possible that 1% of a population could be above the Mean value [above average] and 99% below some members of the 1% will be incredibly greater than the Mean value for that to be true.. In rectangular and Gaussian distributions the Mean and the Median can be expected to have the same value. But most other distributions will have the Mean above or below the Median value. Tod, K0TO On 2/10/12 5:26 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Jim F.j_fit...@yahoo.com wrote: A smart engineer I used to work with at Western Electric said: (paraphrasing) Most of the people on this earth are below average. In truth, exactly 50% of the people on this earth are below average - not most. Still that's a sobering thought for anyone who expects average and bases expectations on average. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
O... I smell a lot of kit building in the future! Gary - KA1J On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:59 AM, chacuff chac...@cableone.net wrote: Or move to the new Topband500Khz Exactly. For those that missed it - there is more here: http://www.arrl.org/news/world-radiocommunication-conference-2012-begins-today-in-switzerland-will-consider-secondary-mf-amat Tree N6TR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
I agree. What I don't understand is how people don't understand that UP means transmit up in freq. Yes, some forget to switch Xmit freq call on the DX who is saying UP 3. Got it... but when the police send your call on the DX Xmit freq then tell you to transmit UP in the same breath, how does the errant station miss what's happening they keep on calling on top of the DX? They simply can't be listening. Arrrg... Going back to Lurk mode. Gary KA1J snip On the other hand, there were many instances of great operating discipline heard last weekend. The Maritnique op (Forget the call, FM5-something) had a particularly well-behaved pile-up. If he sent a partial call, everyone else stayed silent until the QSO was finished or a QRZ? was issued. It was a thing of beauty. This was the norm, rather than the exception. Top Band may be getting worse, but it's still a rather nice neighborhood relative to many other bands. 73 Jeff, W0ODS ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
So, in these times of I want it all at no effort, let's raise the bar. Create new thresholds, filters etc. at which only serious new ops will get through. Close all DX clusters for Topband; yeah hardly realstic, I know. But.. Do not spot on the cluster anymore. 73 Mark, PA5MW On 9 feb. 2012, at 18:03, Gary Smith g...@ka1j.com wrote: I'm guessing that because every new HF rig has 160 ability and that there's more commercial antennas being made to reach the band with minimal assembly, the ratio of misanthropes on Top Band has proportionately increased over past years. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
So, in these times of I want it all at no effort, let's raise the bar. Create new thresholds, filters etc. at which only serious new ops will get through. Or move to the new Topband500Khz Cecil K5DL ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
Can only imagine how big the loading coil for my 40' vertical would need to be for 500 kHz operations. Hi Hi From: t...@kkn.net Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:02:01 -0800 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:59 AM, chacuff chac...@cableone.net wrote: Or move to the new Topband500Khz Exactly. For those that missed it - there is more here: http://www.arrl.org/news/world-radiocommunication-conference-2012-begins-today-in-switzerland-will-consider-secondary-mf-amat Tree N6TR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
On 2/10/2012 8:50 AM, ZR wrote: Ive seen a few that use copper tubing wrapped around a 55 gallon plastic drum and a 30-40' vertical element! Im running a top loaded T supported off the side of the 180' tower and elevated radials. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Jack/W6NF vhfp...@gmail.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band... On 2/10/2012 8:04 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: Can only imagine how big the loading coil for my 40' vertical would need to be for 500 kHz operations. Hi Hi From: t...@kkn.net Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:02:01 -0800 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band... On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 7:59 AM, chacuffchac...@cableone.net wrote: Or move to the new Topband500Khz Exactly. For those that missed it - there is more here: http://www.arrl.org/news/world-radiocommunication-conference-2012-begins-today-in-switzerland-will-consider-secondary-mf-amat Tree N6TR ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK But, then, at 5w EIRP I guess the playing field is level. You just have to work on your receive antenna! -- Jack, W6NF Silver Springs, NV DM09ji ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2112/4801 - Release Date: 02/10/12 You should see the loading coil used at the Fallon LORAN station! At least the diameter if a 55 gallon drum to match the 600-foot vertical. Quite impressive. -- Jack, W6NF Silver Springs, NV DM09ji ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
A trivial point in this discussion, but of some consequence in assessment of data, the average is almost always NOT the 50% point of a population. The Median is the midpoint -- that is 50% of the population is above and 50% below the Median. The Average [or Mean] for a population is very dependent on the distribution of the elements of the population. It is entirely possible that 1% of a population could be above the Mean value [above average] and 99% below some members of the 1% will be incredibly greater than the Mean value for that to be true.. In rectangular and Gaussian distributions the Mean and the Median can be expected to have the same value. But most other distributions will have the Mean above or below the Median value. Tod, K0TO On 2/10/12 5:26 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV li...@subich.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Jim F.j_fit...@yahoo.com wrote: A smart engineer I used to work with at Western Electric said: (paraphrasing) Most of the people on this earth are below average. In truth, exactly 50% of the people on this earth are below average - not most. Still that's a sobering thought for anyone who expects average and bases expectations on average. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
Hi Guys, This morning, after calling a general CQ several times on an apparently vacant frequency, the passband of my receiver was inundated by someone deliberately sending a continuous string of rapid dots---pausing only long enough to see if the barrage elicited any response from me---and a terse QSY... I make it a point to never commence calling CQ without first sending QRL?---twice---on the frequency. Likewise, I always limit my first call to a single 4x3 string, in case I may have missed someone, confirming that the frequency is in use. Why is it that some obviously seasoned operators on the band repeatedly ignore queries as to frequency occupancy, preferring instead to rudely pounce upon unsuspecting callers in a manner that would surely convince newcomers that the term Gentleman's Band is merely a quaint reference to a bygone age...? Not everyone on 160-meters has a lap top computer glued to the ON4KST Chat Room while operating, and not everyone is a slave to the notion that DX stations must respond to each every CQ. If someone has the good graces to ask if it's alright to call a casual CQ on a frequency, why not respond just as graciously in kind with an R, or a TU, if indeed, it is not...? It takes so very little to uphold high Amateur standards, just as it doesn't take much to allow decorum to slip into the nether regions of the 11-meter band. Whether it's due to tradition, or some mis-placed perception of quality, one certainly expects more from 1.8-MHz... ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
The Gentleman's Band has been dead a long time, Eddy. It's now inhabited by the same type of operators that infest all the other bands. As for QRL? It's often used by lids on the DX's frequency to cause QRM and provoke a response. A version of sending someone's call on the DX transmitting frequency thus provoking a slew of ups, lid, a**hole, etc. Best just to ignore it and get on with your life. 73, Roger -- Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5) http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/ http://www.gtr5.com/ ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
Hi Eddy, While I agree 100% with you, sadly this is nothing new. You only need to look back to Hiram Maxim's rotten QRM and the Wouf Hong to see the longevity of this RF Graffiti. I'm guessing that because every new HF rig has 160 ability and that there's more commercial antennas being made to reach the band with minimal assembly, the ratio of misanthropes on Top Band has proportionately increased over past years. The distilled answer really comes down to this; Idiots breed with idiots and they have kids they don't know how to raise. Give an idiot a tool and they'll use it like an idiot... Gary - KA1J Hi Guys, This morning, after calling a general CQ several times on an apparently vacant frequency, the passband of my receiver was inundated by someone deliberately sending a continuous string of rapid dots---pausing only long enough to see if the barrage elicited any response from me---and a terse QSY... ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Proper Decorum On The Gentleman's Band...
On 2/9/2012 6:48 AM, Roger D Johnson wrote: The Gentleman's Band has been dead a long time, Eddy. It's now inhabited by the same type of operators that infest all the other bands. As for QRL? It's often used by lids on the DX's frequency to cause QRM and provoke a response. A version of sending someone's call on the DX transmitting frequency thus provoking a slew of ups, lid, a**hole, etc. Best just to ignore it and get on with your life. 73, Roger Yes, the response to bad behavior seems to be more bad behavior. Sometimes the response to QRM is 10x as bad as the QRM. Sometimes a polite and directed response can be constructive (as in EF up if I'm on the wrong VFO or QRL if someone tunes up on a DX station's QRG accidently). Send FU or A$$ is never helpful and once any interference has revealed itself to be deliberate the absolute best response is NOTHING. Keep a Shmoo in your shack so you have something to punch or club, if necessary. 73, Mike W4EF.. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
