Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[Rick Kunath via Topband]

You could always run open-wire feedline the 620 feet.

On 6/21/2020 12:47 PM, Sam Josuweit wrote:

I ran a very similar analysis using the data from Low Band Dxing and HFTA 
plots. It’s good to hear your real world experience. I think some trenching is 
in my future.



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Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[Jim Brown]

On 6/21/2020 6:53 AM, Sam Josuweit wrote:

Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
coax loss??


You've had a lot of good advice. I'll simply add that the loss in coax 
is pretty low at 1.8 MHz. For your 620 ft run of LMR400, slightly less 
than 1 dB. I would expect the advantage of the hilltop location to be 
significantly more than that.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[Sam Josuweit]

Thanks Steve,

 

I ran a very similar analysis using the data from Low Band Dxing and HFTA 
plots. It’s good to hear your real world experience. I think some trenching is 
in my future.

 

Sam(N3XZ)

 

 

From: VE6WZ_Steve [mailto:ve...@shaw.ca] 
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2020 11:26 AM
To: Sam Josuweit
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

 

Sam,

Yes…I think it would be worth it!

My purpose built low-band remote QTH is on a prominent hill surrounded by 
farmland in all directions.  My QTH at the crest of the hill is about 300’ 
above the surrounding land and it slopes gentle in all directions.  Also my 
Beverage arrays mostly all slope down the hill in each direction.

Anecdotally the QTH seems to perform very well fro DX.

 

Here is a somewhat qualitative analysis of my hilltop QTH using some data from 
the ON4UN low-band DXing book where he talks about verticals on sloping 
terrain. I make some comparisons to my QTH.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UP45c5MWaWvA0T9no4DHW060FSgC-3Pk/view?usp=sharing

I think its reasonable that some exceptional low-angle take-off angles can be 
achieved when located on a hill.  It may be even possible to approach the 
low-angles seen from sea-side verticals…but NOT the gain seen by a saltwater 
location. The “vertical over sloping terrain” data from Johns book would 
suggest low-angle gain that would be almost impossible to achieve on flat land. 
(up to +11 dB at 3 deg angle)

The caveat to this is whether the long-haul DX wave angles really do arrive as 
low as predicted.

 

73, de steve ve6wz

 

 

Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
coax loss??

 

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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[VE6WZ_Steve]

Sam,
Yes…I think it would be worth it!
My purpose built low-band remote QTH is on a prominent hill surrounded by 
farmland in all directions.  My QTH at the crest of the hill is about 300’ 
above the surrounding land and it slopes gentle in all directions.  Also my 
Beverage arrays mostly all slope down the hill in each direction.
Anecdotally the QTH seems to perform very well fro DX.

Here is a somewhat qualitative analysis of my hilltop QTH using some data from 
the ON4UN low-band DXing book where he talks about verticals on sloping 
terrain. I make some comparisons to my QTH.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UP45c5MWaWvA0T9no4DHW060FSgC-3Pk/view?usp=sharing
 

I think its reasonable that some exceptional low-angle take-off angles can be 
achieved when located on a hill.  It may be even possible to approach the 
low-angles seen from sea-side verticals…but NOT the gain seen by a saltwater 
location. The “vertical over sloping terrain” data from Johns book would 
suggest low-angle gain that would be almost impossible to achieve on flat land. 
(up to +11 dB at 3 deg angle)
The caveat to this is whether the long-haul DX wave angles really do arrive as 
low as predicted.

73, de steve ve6wz


> Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
> before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
> would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
> nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
> run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
> and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
> coax loss??

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Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I had a 160 meter inverted V up at 90 for a number of years. Sometimes it 
worked but overall it was useless. I took it down years ago. 

Now, I use a Hi-Z 8 and Waller Flag at 95 feet for receive and a 100 ft shunt 
fed tower for XMIT.
It is all light years ahead of the Inverted V...




Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2020, at 10:18 AM, cqtestk4xs--- via Topband 
>  wrote:
> 
> My place in Hawaii was sloped more than about 99% of all locations...a drop 
> of 1100 feet to sea level around 6000 feet away.  It does make a difference.  
> I had the same slope up hill as down and i can tell you 100% for sure the 
> slope makes a difference.  I used a bent full size vertical wire  for 160 and 
> downhiull was far better. It would be worth the extra coax if you had a 
> pretty significant slope.
> 
> Bill K4XS/KH7XS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Josuweit 
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 1:53 pm
> Subject: Topband: Sloping Ground
> 
> Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
> before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
> would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
> nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
> run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
> and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
> coax loss??
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Sam(N3XZ)
> 
> 
> 
> _
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> _
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Re: Topband: Sloping Ground

[cqtestk4xs--- via Topband]

My place in Hawaii was sloped more than about 99% of all locations...a drop of 
1100 feet to sea level around 6000 feet away.  It does make a difference.  I 
had the same slope up hill as down and i can tell you 100% for sure the slope 
makes a difference.  I used a bent full size vertical wire  for 160 and 
downhiull was far better. It would be worth the extra coax if you had a pretty 
significant slope.

Bill K4XS/KH7XS

-Original Message-
From: Sam Josuweit 
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 1:53 pm
Subject: Topband: Sloping Ground

Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
coax loss??

 

Thanks

Sam(N3XZ)

 

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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Sloping Ground

[Sam Josuweit]

Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that
before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that
would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with
nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax
run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss
and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and
coax loss??

 

Thanks

Sam(N3XZ)

 

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Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector