Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-13 Thread JC 
Hi Nick


I would say grounded both ends, don't need to be connected to the antenna
itself, right.

JC

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Nick
Hall-Patch
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2016 11:42 AM
To: JC <n...@comcast.net>
Cc: 'topband' <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

So, is the ground wire just left "floating", JC?No electrical 
connection to the antenna itself?


Thanks and 73,

Nick
VE7DXR


At 11:23 13-12-16, JC wrote:
>Hi Nick
>
>The wire will reduce loss on the transmission line given a better match 
>and phase. In practice you can see change on the SWR and front back. If 
>you have a good ground you probably won't see anything  changing.
>
>Regards
>JC
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Nick Hall-Patch [mailto:n...@ieee.org]
>Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:59 PM
>To: JC <n...@comcast.net>
>Cc: 'topband' <topband@contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?
>
>What kind of improvement in performance is observed by  providing a 
>better ground, JC?  And, where would a ground wire (counterpoise?) be 
>connected with the DHDL antenna system?
>
>Thanks and 73,
>
>Nick
>VE7DXR
>
>
>
>At 15:38 11-12-16, JC wrote:
> >Hi Mike and Don
> >
> >The DHDL as well as  few other antennas, has a hidden component. The 
> >bottom wire parallel to the ground is a transmission line, actually, 
> >any antenna parallel to the ground is a transmission  line. A 
> >beverage antenna a  is good example.
> >
> >The ground is the second leg of the transition line,  for a K9AY loop 
> >it is the same,  the bottom wire and the ground form a transmission 
> >line. The transmission line allows the Resistor and the Transformer 
> >to be moved to the center of the loop. The VE3DO loop is also exactly 
> >the
>same.
> >
> >The same way, a DHDL antenna uses the ground to phase the two loops, 
> >if you elevate the DHDL high far from the ground, the patter changes. 
> >The DHDL is a ground dependent antenna, improving the ground with a 
> >ground wire bellow the antenna can fix some ground problems.
> >
> >
> >My two cents.
> >
> >73's
> >JC
> >
> >N4IS
> >
> >-----Original Message-
> >From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> >Don Kirk
> >Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:13 AM
> >To: D Michael <damich...@verizon.net>
> >Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
> >Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?
> >
> >Hi Mike,
> >
> >Funny you should ask that.
> >
> >A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size 
> >DHDL using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought 
> >needed improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought 
> >needed improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was 
> >trying to design).  Then I started to play around with the location 
> >of its termination resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up 
> >with what I called the Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard 
> >but my yard is pretty small and the antenna was too close to existing 
> >objects (house and chain link
> >fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I expected, 
> >nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF and 
> >front to back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).
> >
> >I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months 
> >ago for you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should 
> >convey my design / thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of 
> >these out in the open to see if the real life build provides results 
> >similar to the 4Nec2 modelling I did.
> >
> >Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to 
> >be looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the 
> >feedline should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 
> >feet away from the antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  
> >The feedline should also use choke with ground rod similar to what's 
> >recommend for other RX antennas we use (beverages, flags, etc.) to 
> >block common mode noise from making its way to the antenna feedpoint.
> >
> >Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good 
> >on paper.
> >
> >73,
> >Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> >On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael <damich...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > >

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-13 Thread Nick Hall-Patch 
So, is the ground wire just left "floating", JC?No electrical 
connection to the antenna itself?



Thanks and 73,

Nick
VE7DXR


At 11:23 13-12-16, JC wrote:

Hi Nick

The wire will reduce loss on the transmission line given a better match and
phase. In practice you can see change on the SWR and front back. If you have
a good ground you probably won't see anything  changing.

Regards
JC

-Original Message-
From: Nick Hall-Patch [mailto:n...@ieee.org]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:59 PM
To: JC <n...@comcast.net>
Cc: 'topband' <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

What kind of improvement in performance is observed by  providing a better
ground, JC?  And, where would a ground wire (counterpoise?) be connected
with the DHDL antenna system?

Thanks and 73,

Nick
VE7DXR



At 15:38 11-12-16, JC wrote:
>Hi Mike and Don
>
>The DHDL as well as  few other antennas, has a hidden component. The
>bottom wire parallel to the ground is a transmission line, actually,
>any antenna parallel to the ground is a transmission  line. A beverage
>antenna a  is good example.
>
>The ground is the second leg of the transition line,  for a K9AY loop
>it is the same,  the bottom wire and the ground form a transmission
>line. The transmission line allows the Resistor and the Transformer to
>be moved to the center of the loop. The VE3DO loop is also exactly the
same.
>
>The same way, a DHDL antenna uses the ground to phase the two loops, if
>you elevate the DHDL high far from the ground, the patter changes. The
>DHDL is a ground dependent antenna, improving the ground with a ground
>wire bellow the antenna can fix some ground problems.
>
>
>My two cents.
>
>73's
>JC
>
>N4IS
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don
>Kirk
>Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:13 AM
>To: D Michael <damich...@verizon.net>
>Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>Funny you should ask that.
>
>A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size
>DHDL using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought
>needed improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought
>needed improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was
>trying to design).  Then I started to play around with the location of
>its termination resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with
>what I called the Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my
>yard is pretty small and the antenna was too close to existing objects
>(house and chain link
>fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I expected,
>nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF and
>front to back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).
>
>I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months
>ago for you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should
>convey my design / thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of
>these out in the open to see if the real life build provides results
>similar to the 4Nec2 modelling I did.
>
>Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be
>looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the
>feedline should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet
>away from the antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The
>feedline should also use choke with ground rod similar to what's
>recommend for other RX antennas we use (beverages, flags, etc.) to
>block common mode noise from making its way to the antenna feedpoint.
>
>Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on
>paper.
>
>73,
>Don (wd8dsb)
>
>On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael <damich...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED
> > Double Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into
> > Bowties would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower
> > with better front to back.
> > I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose
> > BOWTIE shape.
> > I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
> > Maybe someone could model doing this.
> > TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada


Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada 


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-13 Thread JC 
Hi Nick

The wire will reduce loss on the transmission line given a better match and
phase. In practice you can see change on the SWR and front back. If you have
a good ground you probably won't see anything  changing.

Regards
JC

-Original Message-
From: Nick Hall-Patch [mailto:n...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 10:59 PM
To: JC <n...@comcast.net>
Cc: 'topband' <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

What kind of improvement in performance is observed by  providing a better
ground, JC?  And, where would a ground wire (counterpoise?) be connected
with the DHDL antenna system?

Thanks and 73,

Nick
VE7DXR



At 15:38 11-12-16, JC wrote:
>Hi Mike and Don
>
>The DHDL as well as  few other antennas, has a hidden component. The 
>bottom wire parallel to the ground is a transmission line, actually, 
>any antenna parallel to the ground is a transmission  line. A beverage 
>antenna a  is good example.
>
>The ground is the second leg of the transition line,  for a K9AY loop 
>it is the same,  the bottom wire and the ground form a transmission 
>line. The transmission line allows the Resistor and the Transformer to 
>be moved to the center of the loop. The VE3DO loop is also exactly the
same.
>
>The same way, a DHDL antenna uses the ground to phase the two loops, if 
>you elevate the DHDL high far from the ground, the patter changes. The 
>DHDL is a ground dependent antenna, improving the ground with a ground 
>wire bellow the antenna can fix some ground problems.
>
>
>My two cents.
>
>73's
>JC
>
>N4IS
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don 
>Kirk
>Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:13 AM
>To: D Michael <damich...@verizon.net>
>Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>Funny you should ask that.
>
>A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size 
>DHDL using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought 
>needed improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought 
>needed improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was 
>trying to design).  Then I started to play around with the location of 
>its termination resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with 
>what I called the Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my 
>yard is pretty small and the antenna was too close to existing objects 
>(house and chain link
>fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I expected, 
>nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF and 
>front to back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).
>
>I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months 
>ago for you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should 
>convey my design / thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of 
>these out in the open to see if the real life build provides results 
>similar to the 4Nec2 modelling I did.
>
>Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be 
>looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the 
>feedline should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet 
>away from the antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The 
>feedline should also use choke with ground rod similar to what's 
>recommend for other RX antennas we use (beverages, flags, etc.) to 
>block common mode noise from making its way to the antenna feedpoint.
>
>Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on 
>paper.
>
>73,
>Don (wd8dsb)
>
>On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael <damich...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED 
> > Double Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into  
> > Bowties would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower 
> > with better front to back.
> > I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose 
> > BOWTIE shape.
> > I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
> > Maybe someone could model doing this.
> > TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>_
>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada  

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-12 Thread Nick Hall-Patch 
What kind of improvement in performance is observed by  providing a 
better ground, JC?  And, where would a ground wire (counterpoise?) be 
connected with the DHDL antenna system?


Thanks and 73,

Nick
VE7DXR



At 15:38 11-12-16, JC wrote:

Hi Mike and Don

The DHDL as well as  few other antennas, has a hidden component. The bottom
wire parallel to the ground is a transmission line, actually, any antenna
parallel to the ground is a transmission  line. A beverage antenna a  is
good example.

The ground is the second leg of the transition line,  for a K9AY loop it is
the same,  the bottom wire and the ground form a transmission line. The
transmission line allows the Resistor and the Transformer to be moved to the
center of the loop. The VE3DO loop is also exactly the same.

The same way, a DHDL antenna uses the ground to phase the two loops, if you
elevate the DHDL high far from the ground, the patter changes. The DHDL is a
ground dependent antenna, improving the ground with a ground wire bellow the
antenna can fix some ground problems.


My two cents.

73's
JC

N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:13 AM
To: D Michael <damich...@verizon.net>
Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

Hi Mike,

Funny you should ask that.

A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size DHDL
using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought needed
improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought needed
improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was trying to
design).  Then I started to play around with the location of its termination
resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with what I called the
Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my yard is pretty small
and the antenna was too close to existing objects (house and chain link
fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I expected,
nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF and front to
back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).

I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months ago for
you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should convey my design
/ thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of these out in the open to
see if the real life build provides results similar to the 4Nec2 modelling I
did.

Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be
looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the feedline
should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet away from the
antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The feedline should also use
choke with ground rod similar to what's recommend for other RX antennas we
use (beverages, flags, etc.) to block common mode noise from making its way
to the antenna feedpoint.

Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on
paper.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael <damich...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>
> I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED Double
> Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into  Bowties
> would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower with better
> front to back.
> I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose
> BOWTIE shape.
> I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
> Maybe someone could model doing this.
> TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


Nick Hall-Patch
Victoria, BC
Canada  


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-11 Thread JC 
Hi Mike and Don

The DHDL as well as  few other antennas, has a hidden component. The bottom
wire parallel to the ground is a transmission line, actually, any antenna
parallel to the ground is a transmission  line. A beverage antenna a  is
good example.

The ground is the second leg of the transition line,  for a K9AY loop it is
the same,  the bottom wire and the ground form a transmission line. The
transmission line allows the Resistor and the Transformer to be moved to the
center of the loop. The VE3DO loop is also exactly the same.

The same way, a DHDL antenna uses the ground to phase the two loops, if you
elevate the DHDL high far from the ground, the patter changes. The DHDL is a
ground dependent antenna, improving the ground with a ground wire bellow the
antenna can fix some ground problems. 


My two cents.

73's
JC

N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 10:13 AM
To: D Michael <damich...@verizon.net>
Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

Hi Mike,

Funny you should ask that.

A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size DHDL
using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought needed
improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought needed
improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was trying to
design).  Then I started to play around with the location of its termination
resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with what I called the
Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my yard is pretty small
and the antenna was too close to existing objects (house and chain link
fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I expected,
nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF and front to
back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).

I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months ago for
you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should convey my design
/ thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of these out in the open to
see if the real life build provides results similar to the 4Nec2 modelling I
did.

Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be
looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the feedline
should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet away from the
antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The feedline should also use
choke with ground rod similar to what's recommend for other RX antennas we
use (beverages, flags, etc.) to block common mode noise from making its way
to the antenna feedpoint.

Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on
paper.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael <damich...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
>
> I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED Double 
> Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into  Bowties 
> would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower with better 
> front to back.
> I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose 
> BOWTIE shape.
> I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
> Maybe someone could model doing this.
> TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-11 Thread Don Kirk 
Mike and Gang,

It was this project (terminated bowtie) that got me looking into the KD9SV
994 x5 preamp a few months ago (I published some info on this preamp a few
months ago).  I think the KD9SV 994 x5 preamp sometimes called the KD9SV
VLN preamp (very low noise preamp) would be perfect for use with this type
antenna.

Just FYI,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Don Kirk  wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> Funny you should ask that.
>
> A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size DHDL
> using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought needed
> improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought needed
> improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was trying to
> design).  Then I started to play around with the location of its
> termination resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with what I
> called the Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my yard is
> pretty small and the antenna was too close to existing objects (house and
> chain link fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I
> expected, nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF
> and front to back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).
>
> I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months ago
> for you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should convey my
> design / thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of these out in the
> open to see if the real life build provides results similar to the 4Nec2
> modelling I did.
>
> Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be
> looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the feedline
> should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet away from the
> antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The feedline should also
> use choke with ground rod similar to what's recommend for other RX antennas
> we use (beverages, flags, etc.) to block common mode noise from making its
> way to the antenna feedpoint.
>
> Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on
> paper.
>
> 73,
> Don (wd8dsb)
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED Double
>> Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into  Bowties
>> would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower with better front
>> to back.
>> I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose BOWTIE
>> shape.
>> I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
>> Maybe someone could model doing this.
>> TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Twist a Flag into a Bowtie?

2016-12-11 Thread Don Kirk 
Hi Mike,

Funny you should ask that.

A few months ago (September) I was looking at building a smaller size DHDL
using 4Nec2, and there were a few things I saw that I thought needed
improvement (I saw things in the full size DHDL that I thought needed
improvement, it was not limited to the small size DHDL I was trying to
design).  Then I started to play around with the location of its
termination resistor as well as routing of wires, and wound up with what I
called the Terminated Bowtie.  I built one in my backyard but my yard is
pretty small and the antenna was too close to existing objects (house and
chain link fence) and I did not realize the S/N improvement that I
expected, nevertheless based on modeling it looks like a winner (9.5 RDF
and front to back ratio versus elevation angle very robust).

I have attached the preliminary document I put together a few months ago
for you and others to view (it might not be perfect, but should convey my
design / thoughts).  I would love someone to build one of these out in the
open to see if the real life build provides results similar to the 4Nec2
modelling I did.

Note: Bringing the feedline away from the antenna properly needs to be
looked at to minimize distortion of the pattern.  As I recall the feedline
should not drop down to the ground until it's at least 5 feet away from the
antenna, and a greater distance would be best.  The feedline should also
use choke with ground rod similar to what's recommend for other RX antennas
we use (beverages, flags, etc.) to block common mode noise from making its
way to the antenna feedpoint.

Let me know what you think.  It might not work, but sure looked good on
paper.

73,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:41 AM, D Michael  wrote:

>
>
> I have two flag rx ants and I was looking at the DHDL and DK6ED Double
> Loop System V2 and wondering if twisting my Flag rx ants into  Bowties
> would improve the forward pattern and make them narrower with better front
> to back.
> I would just ""flip"" the termination resistor end to form a loose BOWTIE
> shape.
> I have no ant modeling software so I have no way to ponder this change.
> Maybe someone could model doing this.
> TNX es 73, Mike W3TS
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband