Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
-+-
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf|  Owner:  tbb-
 |  team
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser |Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team,|  Actual Points:
  gitlab-tb-torbutton|
Parent ID:   | Points:
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-can
-+-
Changes (by sysrqb):

 * keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team => tbb-circuit-display, ux-team,
 gitlab-tb-torbutton


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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by asn):

 Replying to [comment:13 arma]:
 > Replying to [comment:9 teor]:
 > > That's not quite true: the service will advertise that it *tries* to
 make one-hop circuits. But some circuits will be 3-hops if the rendezvous
 point is unreachable or fails.
 >
 > teor has a great point here: we can't actually know how many hops the
 service side circuit uses. So anything that we visualize for the user will
 be a metaphor, not an accurate depiction of the onion service's circuit.
 We don't know what the onion service is doing, and we can't know for sure,
 and that's one of the security properties.
 >
 > So my vote remains for leaving it as it is, or if we want to change it,
 to change it to some sort of "cloudy" thing that makes it clear we don't
 have good visibility on that half of the path.

 FWIW, v3 single onions actually specify they are single onions in the
 descriptor:
 https://github.com/torproject/torspec/blob/master/rend-spec-v3.txt#L1335

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by pili):

 Replying to [comment:19 cypherpunks]:
 > btw `https://facebookcorewwwi.onion` is down it seems

 Yes, see https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-
 talk/2019-December/045386.html

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 btw `https://facebookcorewwwi.onion` is down it seems

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:13 arma]:
 > Replying to [comment:9 teor]:
 > > That's not quite true: the service will advertise that it *tries* to
 make one-hop circuits. But some circuits will be 3-hops if the rendezvous
 point is unreachable or fails.
 >
 > teor has a great point here: we can't actually know how many hops the
 service side circuit uses. So anything that we visualize for the user will
 be a metaphor, not an accurate depiction of the onion service's circuit.
 We don't know what the onion service is doing, and we can't know for sure,
 and that's one of the security properties.
 >
 > So my vote remains for leaving it as it is, or if we want to change it,
 to change it to some sort of "cloudy" thing that makes it clear we don't
 have good visibility on that half of the path.

 What does Tor browser currently do if an exit circuit uses 4 hops?

 I think it's ok to:
 * change it to something that symbolises the uncertainly: it could be a
 direct connection, it could be 3-4 hops
 * add a link to a "what is an onion service" doc that explains what we
 can't know
 * do nothing

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by pili):

 antonela: Do we want to do anything else here or shall we just close as
 wontfix since:

 > We don't know what the onion service is doing, and we can't know for
 sure, and that's one of the security properties.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by teor):

 Here's the spec:
 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/rend-spec-v3.txt#n1487
 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/rend-spec-v3.txt#n1934

 Here is what we actually implemented in 0.4.2.1-alpha and 0.4.1.6:
 https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/tree/ChangeLog#n345

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 Replying to [comment:14 teor]:
 > This is particularly true in recent tor versions, which implement
 "fallback to a 3-hop path on address or connection failure" on v2 and v3
 onions.
 Can you please clarify what that feature is?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by teor):

 This is particularly true in recent tor versions, which implement
 "fallback to a 3-hop path on address or connection failure" on v2 and v3
 onions.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [comment:9 teor]:
 > That's not quite true: the service will advertise that it *tries* to
 make one-hop circuits. But some circuits will be 3-hops if the rendezvous
 point is unreachable or fails.

 teor has a great point here: we can't actually know how many hops the
 service side circuit uses. So anything that we visualize for the user will
 be a metaphor, not an accurate depiction of the onion service's circuit.
 We don't know what the onion service is doing, and we can't know for sure,
 and that's one of the security properties.

 So my vote remains for leaving it as it is, or if we want to change it, to
 change it to some sort of "cloudy" thing that makes it clear we don't have
 good visibility on that half of the path.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27-can
--+---

Comment (by pili):

 #32571 is a duplicate

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:  Sponsor27
--+---
Changes (by gk):

 * sponsor:   => Sponsor27


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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--

Comment (by teor):

 Replying to [comment:4 dgoulet]:
 > Replying to [comment:3 gk]:
 > > dgoulet: What do we need to check for deciding whether we have a
 single onion service vs. a "normal" one?
 >
 > For v2 services (current scheme of 16 char .onion), you can't know. The
 service descriptor doesn't advertise such a thing.
 >
 > For v3 services (>= 0.3.2), the service will put in its descriptor
 `single-onion-service` so by fetching it, a client will know.

 That's not quite true: the service will advertise that it *tries* to make
 one-hop circuits. But some circuits will be 3-hops if the rendezvous point
 is unreachable or fails.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium|  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal| Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display, ux-team  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--
Changes (by arma):

 * priority:  High => Medium
 * keywords:  tbb-circuit-display => tbb-circuit-display, ux-team
 * severity:  Major => Normal


Comment:

 Adding in the ux team so they can get involved.

 I think any sort of metaphorical visualization of "the other side of the
 onion circuit" would do fine here. Maybe that means we leave it at three
 visualized hops, because we've taught users that Tor circuits are
 generally three hops. Or maybe we make it cloudier. But I don't want to
 teach users to go check if the onion site they're using is three-hops or
 one-hop: onion services should be onion services and that's that. (This is
 as much a political move as anything else -- there are too many people out
 there saying that all onion services should be one-hop, and we should rip
 out the three-hop version, and drawing users into that fight, with this
 interface question, isn't going to make anybody any happier.)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--

Comment (by 1-hop):

 > shows that it is a 6 hop circuit
 so, don't show hops which you don't know of.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--

Comment (by arma):

 I am a fan of leaving the gui as it is, and not trying to teach users that
 sometimes onion services are 3-hop and sometimes they are 1-hop. Better to
 just have them be onion services -- it's none of the client's business how
 many hops the onion service has used.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--
Changes (by cypherpunks):

 * status:  needs_information => new


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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  needs_information
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+---

Comment (by dgoulet):

 Replying to [comment:3 gk]:
 > dgoulet: What do we need to check for deciding whether we have a single
 onion service vs. a "normal" one?

 For v2 services (current scheme of 16 char .onion), you can't know. The
 service descriptor doesn't advertise such a thing.

 For v3 services (>= 0.3.2), the service will put in its descriptor
 `single-onion-service` so by fetching it, a client will know.

 However, v3 service don't have control port support yet but it is planned
 (hopefully, best effort!) to be in 0.3.3. I think maybe a GETINFO command
 to ask if this .onion is a single onion (without triggering a descriptor
 fetch ofc). Or we could also mention it in the HS_DESC event as well so TB
 could monitor that event. Not familiar if TB monitors events but anyway
 there are ways to deal with that.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+---
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  needs_information
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+---
Changes (by gk):

 * cc: dgoulet (added)
 * status:  new => needs_information


Comment:

 dgoulet: What do we need to check for deciding whether we have a single
 onion service vs. a "normal" one?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tbb-circuit-display   |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--
Changes (by gk):

 * keywords:   => tbb-circuit-display


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Re: [tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major | Resolution:
 Keywords:|  Actual Points:
Parent ID:| Points:
 Reviewer:|Sponsor:
--+--

Comment (by cypherpunks):

 According to dgoulet https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-
 talk/2016-December/042753.html

 > With the next generation onion service (we hope by mid-2017 so ~6
 months), every onion service will advertise in its descriptor that it is a
 single onion service and we hope to make the circuit viewer in Tor Browser
 show that when visiting a single onion service.

 Not sure if there's some ticket somewhere for this.

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[tor-bugs] #23875 [Applications/Tor Browser]: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23875: Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor 
onion
icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
--+--
 Reporter:  Dbryrtfbcbhgf |  Owner:  tbb-team
 Type:  defect| Status:  new
 Priority:  High  |  Milestone:
Component:  Applications/Tor Browser  |Version:
 Severity:  Major |   Keywords:
Actual Points:|  Parent ID:
   Points:|   Reviewer:
  Sponsor:|
--+--
 Facebook's onion site is a single hop onion, but clicking on the Tor onion
 icon shows that it is a 6 hop circuit.
 Roger Dingledine said at Def Con that facebook uses a single hop, here
 https://youtu.be/Di7qAVidy1Y?t=2135
 1. Go to facebookcorewwwi.onion
 2. click on the onion icon in the upper left and it should show that it is
 a 6 hop circuit, even though it should show that it is a 4 hop circuit.
 Tested on 7.0.6 and 7.5a5.

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