Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by qbi):

 Replying to [comment:8 arma]:
 > * qbi, I assume you've thought through "I wonder if we could give sudo
 privs to run just the newlist command"? (It looks like most people are
 unable to even log in to eugeni? Which makes sense because it's the
 central mail server.)

 I thought about this. As far as I see it, it'll need quite some changes. I
 developed an idea which could work and send this to the admin team to
 discuss it. I'll update the ticket if this turns out to be a worthwhile
 solution.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by arma):

 Thoughts:

 * I think we don't make lists all that often, so it isn't super urgent to
 grow the list of admin people too much. We just need to find a way for new
 list requests to not slip through the cracks.

 * In theory somebody else can do steps 1,2,4,5,6. From previous tickets it
 looks like having somebody else ensure step 2 got done right, before we
 bug anybody about step 3, would be helpful. Maybe these are the list
 admins, and that's Damian and...used to be Karsten? Is it anybody else?

 * I would feel bad bugging weasel about this one, since we want his
 attention for bigger vision things. That mainly leaves Nick and qbi. We
 should check with Nick to see what he thinks about his role here.

 * hiro is our service admin, which is a different role. The sysadmins keep
 the underlying infrastructure going, and the service admins keep all the
 stuff like trac and blog and gitlab and so on stable and secure and
 working. The reason why this mailman question is messy is that apparently
 mailman is set up so only sysadmins can actually admin the service. That's
 not how it should be in an ideal world.

 * qbi, I assume you've thought through "I wonder if we could give sudo
 privs to run just the newlist command"? (It looks like most people are
 unable to even log in to eugeni? Which makes sense because it's the
 central mail server.)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by atagar):

 Thanks Jens! We're definitely in agreement that we should keep the set of
 people with root small. Here's my thoughts on it...

 1. We should check with weasel and nickm to see if they're ok with being
 asked to create lists. If they're up for being an occasional fallback for
 this then great! On the wiki we can say "Jens (qbi) usually creates new
 lists, but if he's unavailable for a couple weeks then feel free to reach
 out to X."

 2. Should hiro be added to the list? My understanding is that she's
 employed by TPI to be one of our sysadmins so it seems odd we aren't
 granting her access. Maybe there's concerns around this that I'm missing?

 3. Lets add the instructions you mention above to the wiki. This way
 weasel and nickm can easily reference them when they step in.

 Thoughts?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by qbi):

 The current approach for creating a new mailing list is as follows:

  1. Someone makes a ticket
  1. Check if all the required information are present. See
 
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/emailLists#HowdoIaskforanewmailinglist
  1. Someone needs to run `newlist` on eugeni. "Someone" is a person which
 belongs to the admin group (currently weasel, qbi and nickm). The
 following information need to be entered:
   1. Name of the list
   1. Email address of the new listadmin
   1. Password for the list. The password must also go to a password
 repository.
  1. Go to https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/emailLists and
 enter the information about the newly created list
  1. Log in at the list page at https://lists.torproject.org and enter the
 list description plus maybe make more changes.
  1. Close the ticket

 So step three is the one which only a limited set of people can do. As far
 as I see it extending the number of people would require to give them root
 privileges. The possible harm which can be done here  is more than just
 wait for a few days for a new list. Thatswhy I'm hesitant to go this way.
 IMHO it is better to ask one of the two remaining people if list creation
 takes too long. What are your opinions on this?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by atagar):

 Hi Jens. I marked the ticket as low priority because there indeed wasn't
 any rush - we were in the middle of discussions and it was fine if it took
 a while. But after four weeks this was now getting in the way. This is why
 I asked you for the list in person at the dev meeting, then bumped the
 ticket again ten days ago.

 I'm sorry if I got on your nerves. We're both volunteers here and if
 you're busy with other stuff that's *absolutely* fine. It would just be
 wise if more than one person had access so when situations arise the
 requester could defer to someone else. That's all. :)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by qbi):

 It is no helpful to say on the one side that #23726 is low priority and
 has time while on the other side creating such a ticket and making some
 fuss about it. Atagar, if a ticket actual has a higher priority or needs
 to be done up to a specific date, please mention that in the ticket and it
 will be handled faster.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by atagar):

 Karsten was a list admin along with me, but neither of us ever had list
 creation permissions. Iirc it's always been restricted to qbi, weasel, and
 phobos. I certainly could be wrong though.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by arma):

 Wasn't Karsten a list person at one point? I thought we had like three.

 If we are indeed down to one, we should add more.

 Qbi, can you help us understand the tradeoffs here? In particular, is our
 mailman set-up such that we have to give access to a whole bunch of
 incidental things if we add another mailman admin, or is the surface area
 relatively controlled?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+-

Comment (by nickm):

 Is there any reason not to do this?

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[tor-bugs] #23932 [Internal Services/Service - lists]: Please grant more folks list creation permissions

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#23932: Please grant more folks list creation permissions
---+-
 Reporter:  atagar |  Owner:  qbi
 Type:  enhancement| Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Internal Services/Service - lists  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal |   Keywords:
Actual Points: |  Parent ID:
   Points: |   Reviewer:
  Sponsor: |
---+-
 Hi Jens, three weeks ago I filed a request for a new list (#23726). Low
 priority, but the lack of traction is making me realize we have a bus
 factor of one for list creation...

 {{{
 09:16 < atagar_> Does anyone besides qbi have access to make a list?
 Having https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/23726 would be
 helpful.
 09:23 < hiro> atagar_ sorry I can't help w this
 }}}

 We all juggle a lot of stuff so perfectly fine for things like this to
 slip through the cracks, but we should ensure others can step in when that
 happens. As one of our sysadmins hiro would be a great candidate. I would
 be another since like you I'm a list admin.

 Thanks!

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