Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
-+--
 Reporter:  hiro |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog|Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-october  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:  10
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+--
Changes (by hiro):

 * keywords:  tpa-roadmap-may => tpa-roadmap-october


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
-+--
 Reporter:  hiro |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog|Version:
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-may  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:   | Points:  10
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+--
Changes (by hiro):

 * keywords:  tpa-roadmap-march => tpa-roadmap-may


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-march  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by anarcat):

 > I would like to migrate the old post to the "new" blog without the
 comments. Also I would like to keep an archive of the blog as static html
 pages exported from drupal. The archive will have the comments. I
 understand that in this plan there is a bit of redundancy but I also
 understand this is a way not to lose links to all our posts, which are
 valuable. In the new blog old posts can have a link at the bottom to the
 archive page where people can read the archived comments.

 Sounds like a great compromise to me! Cool. :)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-march  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by hiro):

 I would like to migrate the old post to the "new" blog without the
 comments. Also I would like to keep an archive of the blog as static html
 pages exported from drupal. The archive will have the comments. I
 understand that in this plan there is a bit of redundancy but I also
 understand this is a way not to lose links to all our posts, which are
 valuable. In the new blog old posts can have a link at the bottom to the
 archive page where people can read the archived comments.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-march  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by hiro):

 Replying to [comment:3 anarcat]:
 > is it part of the spec here to allow users unfamiliar with git to edit
 the website? i'm wondering if we've given any thought to which tools could
 be used for that purpose...
 >
 > i wonder if tools like this could be useful for us:
 >
 > https://gohugo.io/tools/frontends/
 >
 > those are hugo frontends, but they could easily apply to lektor as
 well

 Lektor has a frontend that can be used as a CMS. When you start the lektor
 server on your machine you can also access it on your localhost and create
 and/or edit pages from your browser.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tpa-roadmap-march  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--
Changes (by boklm):

 * cc: tpa-roadmap-march (removed)
 * cc: boklm (added)
 * keywords:   => tpa-roadmap-march


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by anarcat):

 Replying to [comment:5 teor]:
 > What's our plan for converting links in old posts?
 > Can links between old blog posts point to the new blog, once the old
 posts have been converted?

 That's always the tricky part in a conversion. I've done Drupal
 "fossilizations" before, which consists of turning a dynamic website into
 a static one. It's an involved process, but it can be done, with enough
 time and tweaking. The result is a static archive of the Drupal site, in
 raw HTML.

 The tricky part is where to put that archive. If we want to keep the
 `blog.torproject.org` domain active with the new lektor site, we'll have
 to do some dance like we did with the main website (move the old website
 to 2019.www.tpo, specifically). I'm not sure that worked very well,
 because it broke a *lot* of links and we didn't have good mechanisms to
 redirect to the older site on the new one.

 Could we consider creating the new site on a new domain, say
 `news.torproject.org`?

 > Is there a proof of concept somewhere, that we could look at?
 > Or are we not at that stage yet?

 ... but yeah, maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves a little here. As far
 as I know, we haven't resolved those questions yet and there's no proof of
 concept. But those are excellent questions!

 Replying to [comment:6 arma]:
 > Do we have anybody on our side with real in-depth experience in managing
 discourse communities? [... notes about the limitations of stack exchange
 and reddit ...]
 > do we have a plan for how this time will be different? Delegating our
 community moderation to a third party platform means giving the control to
 steer topics to...whom exactly?

 The key difference between Reddit/Stackexchange and "our own discourse
 instance" (whether it's self-hosted or hosted at discoursehosting.net, as
 we plan to do) is that we would be admins of the instance, which is not
 the case of the other communities. We would have the final say in what's
 in and what's out, the same way we do right now with the blog comments.
 Although...

 >  At least with the current blog case, it fails closed when we spend a
 while not giving it attention, rather than failing open by going off in
 some surprising and unhelpful direction.

 ... I am not familiar with how blog moderation works now. If it's "a
 priori moderation" (ie. that a comment does not show up before it's
 approved), that might be difficult to replicate in Discourse. But I'm not
 too worried about this: Discourse is specifically built to help manage a
 more healthy forum community, and I'm hopefully we can build one with
 existing staff resources (who currently moderate the blog) and possibly
 even community people (who would be promoted within the normal Discourse
 process)

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [ticket:33115 hiro]:
 > I propose to migrate the blog to a static website with lektor and have
 comments running from discourse.org.

 I like this plan in theory. I agree that our current situation is not
 really sustainable.

 I have two concerns that I want to make sure we address well enough with
 the new plan:

 > Moderation on discourse is much easier than on drupal comments (another
 pain point for the blog), and we would get a forum that we could use for
 other purposes too.

 Do we have anybody on our side with real in-depth experience in managing
 discourse communities? I ask because with both the stackexchange case and
 the reddit case, we had plans for real Tor people who actually understand
 Tor things to engage, and it started out working that way, but then those
 people got distracted or burnt out or otherwise didn't keep up, and the
 platforms (for better or for worse) have a mechanism for random people to
 become highly trusted if they just stick with it -- so the result was that
 all the moderators are now random people whose primary property is that
 they have free time and they're stubborn, rather than that they are people
 we know and have some relationship with.

 I no longer engage much with Tor's stackexchange, because some of the
 recent times I did, some random person stepped in and told me I was wrong
 about my answer and changed it to an answer I didn't want it to be. The
 original plan there was to pick a better platform for building our FAQ...
 but if we can't choose the answers on our FAQ, that's not so helpful to
 us.

 So: do we have a plan for how this time will be different? Delegating our
 community moderation to a third party platform means giving the control to
 steer topics to...whom exactly?

 At least with the current blog case, it fails closed when we spend a while
 not giving it attention, rather than failing open by going off in some
 surprising and unhelpful direction.

 > What we will lose:
 >  - Old comments. I see no value in migrating old blog comments to
 discourse to be honest. It would be a lot of effort and the old comments
 will be archived anyways in the blog archive.

 I agree that migrating old blog comments to discourse seems like a bad
 step. But are the only two choices 'migrate to discourse' or 'drop'? For
 example, another option might be to migrate them to the static html blog
 entries.

 Many of our old blog posts have real content that would be a shame to
 lose. For two examples,
 https://blog.torproject.org/comment/224125#comment-224125
 and
 https://blog.torproject.org/comment/78918#comment-78918
 but there are many many more.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by teor):

 Sounds like a great plan. Less work, less risk, and lower cost.

 Replying to [comment:4 pili]:
 > I would like to highlight the need for an events/calendar plugin or
 similar.

 I think the calendar is the one big missing piece.

 We also have "Recent Updates" on the blog, are we keeping that?
 It seems easy to implement using a template.

 I also see tags on posts, they should be easy with a template.

 And I think it's ok to lose comments and old versions of posts.
 Discourse is a great platform, it's really well designed for healthier
 conversations.

 What's our plan for migrating media?

 What's our plan for converting links in old posts?
 Can links between old blog posts point to the new blog, once the old posts
 have been converted?

 Is there anything else we're going to lose, or any other changes we don't
 know about?

 Is there a proof of concept somewhere, that we could look at?
 Or are we not at that stage yet?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by pili):

 I would like to highlight the need for an events/calendar plugin or
 similar.

 Also, we might want to keep the following notes on this from the last dev
 meeting:
 
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2019Stockholm/Notes/Blog

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--

Comment (by anarcat):

 is it part of the spec here to allow users unfamiliar with git to edit the
 website? i'm wondering if we've given any thought to which tools could be
 used for that purpose...

 i wonder if tools like this could be useful for us:

 https://gohugo.io/tools/frontends/

 those are hugo frontends, but they could easily apply to lektor as
 well

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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:  10
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--
Changes (by gaba):

 * cc: tpa-roadmap-march (added)
 * points:   => 10


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Re: [tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+--
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal | Resolution:
 Keywords: |  Actual Points:
Parent ID: | Points:
 Reviewer: |Sponsor:
---+--
Changes (by hiro):

 * parent:  #33105 =>


Old description:

> We have been having issues with the blog for a long time. The template we
> are using was developed for another purpose and never really finished.
> We also spend a lot of money on Drupal that could rather be spent
> somewhere else.
>
> I propose to migrate the blog to a static website with lektor and have
> comments running from discourse.org. I have actually been in contact with
> discourse and they have offered to run a forum for us for free
> (). Addittionally they would run an .onion and a torproject.org
> subdomain.
>
> Moderation on discourse is much easier than on drupal comments (another
> pain point for the blog), and we would get a forum that we could use for
> other purposes too.
>
> This is how the blog can be migrated.
>
>  - We will do mockups and approve them with all the parties involved.
>  - We will start migrating content and have it on staging for testing.
>  - Once we are happy we will archive the current blog into static pages
> and move the static bloc to blog.torproject.org.
>
> What we will lose:
>  - Version history on posts.
>  - Old comments. I see no value in migrating old blog comments to
> discourse to be honest. It would be a lot of effort and the old comments
> will be archived anyways in the blog archive.
>
> What we will gain:
>  - Once the blog has been migrated creating posts will be no different
> than editing anyone of our websites. It would actually be a bit easier
> since there are a few different template and pages in our website and the
> blog will just have posts.
>  - Anyone that is currently updating the websites will be able to help
> people with blog posts, therefore we will gain a lot more of blog admins.
>  - The blog will run from our static www rotation, so we will not have to
> run expensive services or 2 cache VMs in front of it to avoid paing a lot
> to a third party for page views.
>  - We will not have to update a service every now and again. The blog
> will run out of static HTML.
>  - We will be able to update the templates according to our styleguide.
>  - Functionalities that we will build won't break because of a drupal
> update.

New description:

 We have been having issues with the blog for a long time. The template we
 are using was developed for another purpose and never really finished.
 We also spend a lot of money on Drupal that could rather be spent
 somewhere else.

 I propose to migrate the blog to a static website with lektor and have
 comments running from discourse.org. I have actually been in contact with
 discourse and they have offered to run a forum for us for free (#33105).
 Addittionally they would run an .onion and a torproject.org subdomain.

 Moderation on discourse is much easier than on drupal comments (another
 pain point for the blog), and we would get a forum that we could use for
 other purposes too.

 This is how the blog can be migrated.

  - We will do mockups and approve them with all the parties involved.
  - We will start migrating content and have it on staging for testing.
  - Once we are happy we will archive the current blog into static pages
 and move the static bloc to blog.torproject.org.

 What we will lose:
  - Version history on posts.
  - Old comments. I see no value in migrating old blog comments to
 discourse to be honest. It would be a lot of effort and the old comments
 will be archived anyways in the blog archive.

 What we will gain:
  - Once the blog has been migrated creating posts will be no different
 than editing anyone of our websites. It would actually be a bit easier
 since there are a few different template and pages in our website and the
 blog will just have posts.
  - Anyone that is currently updating the websites will be able to help
 people with blog posts, therefore we will gain a lot more of blog admins.
  - The blog will run from our static www rotation, so we will not have to
 run expensive services or 2 cache VMs in front of it to avoid paing a lot
 to a third party for page views.
  - We will not have to update a service every now and again. The blog will
 run out of static HTML.
  - We will be able to update the templates according to our styleguide.
  - Functionalities that we will build won't break because of a drupal
 update.

--

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[tor-bugs] #33115 [Webpages/Blog]: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#33115: Migrating the blog to a static web site with Lektor
---+
 Reporter:  hiro   |  Owner:  hiro
 Type:  defect | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium |  Milestone:
Component:  Webpages/Blog  |Version:
 Severity:  Normal |   Keywords:
Actual Points: |  Parent ID:  #33105
   Points: |   Reviewer:
  Sponsor: |
---+
 We have been having issues with the blog for a long time. The template we
 are using was developed for another purpose and never really finished.
 We also spend a lot of money on Drupal that could rather be spent
 somewhere else.

 I propose to migrate the blog to a static website with lektor and have
 comments running from discourse.org. I have actually been in contact with
 discourse and they have offered to run a forum for us for free
 (). Addittionally they would run an .onion and a torproject.org
 subdomain.

 Moderation on discourse is much easier than on drupal comments (another
 pain point for the blog), and we would get a forum that we could use for
 other purposes too.

 This is how the blog can be migrated.

  - We will do mockups and approve them with all the parties involved.
  - We will start migrating content and have it on staging for testing.
  - Once we are happy we will archive the current blog into static pages
 and move the static bloc to blog.torproject.org.

 What we will lose:
  - Version history on posts.
  - Old comments. I see no value in migrating old blog comments to
 discourse to be honest. It would be a lot of effort and the old comments
 will be archived anyways in the blog archive.

 What we will gain:
  - Once the blog has been migrated creating posts will be no different
 than editing anyone of our websites. It would actually be a bit easier
 since there are a few different template and pages in our website and the
 blog will just have posts.
  - Anyone that is currently updating the websites will be able to help
 people with blog posts, therefore we will gain a lot more of blog admins.
  - The blog will run from our static www rotation, so we will not have to
 run expensive services or 2 cache VMs in front of it to avoid paing a lot
 to a third party for page views.
  - We will not have to update a service every now and again. The blog will
 run out of static HTML.
  - We will be able to update the templates according to our styleguide.
  - Functionalities that we will build won't break because of a drupal
 update.

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