Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502, |
  network-team-roadmap-2020Q1|
Parent ID:   | Points:  16
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-can
-+-
Changes (by gaba):

 * keywords:
 tor-dos, tor-hs, performance, 034-triage-20180328,
 034-removed-20180502, network-team-roadmap-2019-Q1Q2
 =>
 tor-dos, tor-hs, performance, 034-triage-20180328,
 034-removed-20180502, network-team-roadmap-2020Q1


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502, |
  network-team-roadmap-2019-Q1Q2 |
Parent ID:   | Points:  16
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-can
-+-
Changes (by asn):

 * parent:  #2 =>


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502, |
  network-team-roadmap-2019-Q1Q2 |
Parent ID:  #2   | Points:  16
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-can
-+-
Changes (by dgoulet):

 * status:  needs_information => new
 * sponsor:  Sponsor27-must => Sponsor27-can


Comment:

 Lot of word. Now in the stretch side.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #2   | Points:  16
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-must
-+-
Changes (by dgoulet):

 * points:  8 => 16


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #2   | Points:  8
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-must
-+-

Comment (by asn):

 Related closed ticket #24899.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #2   | Points:  8
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-must
-+-
Changes (by pili):

 * parent:  #14006 => #2


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #14006   | Points:  8
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27-must
-+-
Changes (by asn):

 * sponsor:  Sponsor27 => Sponsor27-must


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #14006   | Points:  8
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27
-+-
Changes (by asn):

 * points:  3 => 8


Comment:

 We don't have a plan here. Bumping up the points.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #14006   | Points:  3
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
 |  Sponsor27
-+-
Changes (by pili):

 * sponsor:   => Sponsor27


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
-+-
 Reporter:  asn  |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect   | Status:
 |  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium   |  Milestone:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
Component:  Core Tor/Tor |Version:  Tor:
 |  unspecified
 Severity:  Normal   | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance,|  Actual Points:
  034-triage-20180328, 034-removed-20180502  |
Parent ID:  #14006   | Points:  3
 Reviewer:   |Sponsor:
-+-
Changes (by asn):

 * keywords:  tor-dos, tor-hs, performance, 034-triage-20180328 =>
 tor-dos, tor-hs, performance, 034-triage-20180328,
 034-removed-20180502
 * milestone:  Tor: 0.3.4.x-final => Tor: unspecified


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.4.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #14006  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--
Changes (by asn):

 * milestone:  Tor: 0.3.3.x-final => Tor: 0.3.4.x-final


Comment:

 Pushing this to 034 since we lack a plan. Let's work on #14006 in 033 if
 we can.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  #14006  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--
Changes (by dgoulet):

 * parent:   => #14006


Comment:

 This is now very related to #14006 that is for client we do have
 `MaxClientCircuitsPending` so at worst they do a burst of 32 circuits.

 For HS, this can go much bigger with 5+ configured service. I suspect that
 if we can find a solution in #14006, this is resolved. Not flagging it as
 duplicate because maybe that circuit limit rate idea is still something we
 want for an overall client.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by teor):

 Ok, let's think about the service side in 0.3.4 and later.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by dgoulet):

 I honestly don't see an easy way for 033 to have this properly for both
 client and HS as I think they should not follow the same limitation else
 we'll just make services one step closer to "not fun to use".

 I would maybe prefer having a way to queue request while respecting the
 circuit creation rate but on HS side I see another DoS opportunity there.

 For client, this is much more simpler but for HS we are talking about more
 thinking and engineering in my opinion which is not something I see easily
 done for 033...

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by teor):

 I think we need to limit clients and HSs, otherwise there isn't much point
 in doing this patch.

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:
|  needs_information
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--
Changes (by dgoulet):

 * status:  new => needs_information


Comment:

 Replying to [comment:3 arma]:
 > Would it be totally crazy for clients to take a look at the
 dos_cc_circuit_max_count consensus param (or whatever we end up naming it)
 from #24902, and try to hold themselves under it when they have some
 control over their circuit load, like in this case?

 In general, I do think we want a mechanism in a tor *client* to never go
 above a circuit creation rate and sounds like a good logic to use the DoS
 mitigation rate as the upper limit (which can be a moving target over
 time). That makes client use a rate that they know they won't get
 blacklisted for that in theory. Although all this makes sense if our DoS
 mitigation starts being applied with a single TCP connection
 (`DoSCircuitCreationMinConnections 1`).

 This also has a side effect of effectively having a way to control the
 circuit creation rate of the entire network (for normal tor clients). Fun
 power to have (?).

 However, that might not play super well with busy hidden service opening
 rendezvous circuits at a much higher rate than a normal client would do.
 And also, I wouldn't probably do this differently with HS because it seems
 to me an easy way to provide a way to neutralize a service, keep opening
 circuits to reach that limit and the circuit effectively becomes
 unresponsive because it can't launch more RP circuits. Else, it would
 queue the requests and go FIFO with those while it respects the circuit
 rate.

 At first, I would go with circuit rate limiting tor clients (excluding
 HS). Is this something we want/can have in 033?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--
Changes (by alecmuffett):

 * cc: alecmuffett (added)


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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [comment:1 arma]:
 > Also also, my upcoming plans in #24902 will start sending destroys back
 if you send me too many create cells in too short a time period.

 Would it be totally crazy for clients to take a look at the
 dos_cc_circuit_max_count consensus param (or whatever we end up naming it)
 from #24902, and try to hold themselves under it when they have some
 control over their circuit load, like in this case?

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [ticket:24973 asn]:
 > Consider a Tor that starts up with 10 HSes configured(many of those Tors
 exist); it will easily attempt to make hundreds of circuits within
 seconds.

 You can see one of those Tors in action (probably with more than 10 HSes)
 at #24897:
 {{{
 Jan 20 16:33:30.000 [notice] We'd like to launch a circuit to handle a
 connection, but we already have 128 general-purpose client circuits
 pending. Waiting until some finish. [1808313 similar message(s) suppressed
 in last 600 seconds]
 }}}

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Re: [tor-bugs] #24973 [Core Tor/Tor]: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once

[Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki]

#24973: Tor should be more gentle when launching dozens of circuits at once
+--
 Reporter:  asn |  Owner:  (none)
 Type:  defect  | Status:  new
 Priority:  Medium  |  Milestone:  Tor:
|  0.3.3.x-final
Component:  Core Tor/Tor|Version:  Tor: unspecified
 Severity:  Normal  | Resolution:
 Keywords:  tor-dos tor-hs performance  |  Actual Points:
Parent ID:  | Points:  3
 Reviewer:  |Sponsor:
+--

Comment (by arma):

 Replying to [ticket:24973 asn]:
 > We already have `MaxClientCircuitsPending` but not sure if that's
 enough.

 Also, MaxClientCircuitsPending only counts CIRCUIT_PURPOSE_C_GENERAL
 circuits, and Mike's new feature in #23101 has stopped using C_GENERAL
 circuits for posting or fetching hsdescs.

 Also also, my upcoming plans in #24902 will start sending destroys back if
 you send me too many create cells in too short a time period.

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