Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?

2013-08-27 Thread Dave Lahr 
Just wanted to follow up - I emailed yelp, never heard back from them, but
now we can access it.  We can also access TDBank North (I can't remember if
I emailed them or not).


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Konstantinos Asimakis
wrote:

> Chuck do you run Tor on a separate machine to do that? Or have you found
> some way to pass only your Tor traffic through the VPN?
>
> Cheers.
>
> -
> My full signature with lots of links 
> etc.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Chuck Bevitt  wrote:
>
>> I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time
>> Warner). I did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I
>> started using an anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a
>> different IP than the rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem
>> since. Costs less than $100 / year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure
>> of protection from DMCA complaints.
>>
>> The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts
>> via tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node.
>> Not sure what the answer to that is.
>>
>> Chuck Bevitt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>> > Hash: SHA512
>> >
>> > t...@t-3.net:
>> >> Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is
>> >> photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed
>> >> merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
>> >
>> > That is correct[1].
>> >
>> > 1.
>> >
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-all-us-mail.html
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > - -Gordon M.
>> >
>> >
>> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>> >
>> > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSGrNdAAoJED/jpRoe7/uj7ZIH/2tcPxpO0F0G+W0fI3cWu/CC
>> > +Igh8j9zpXJkA1Z8YODuiyD26G3VQSg3IILXUjfCpzvLsP3xKzxImD3atocXK7y7
>> > O7tLdgyLg4nPLNtILQtOe26g3W59ljxPJXoHRwGpO0N1g94qkggepxB3qz83UZe/
>> > TPZ3iIhtImvYmzXgU1RHK+3X5ikAlRFShbgPG7IsZrsB9QMFgDL4fGL0x1/ipTLh
>> > mfuzdHbfAYqW4zXVgn9wuncWZK/FY1D2e5gMbavrVpR1jRFxuAB81ty230ibOHPC
>> > 1DX4+pqHZOWyNpEpADX+aejhpA9F2yLE6ahhnTtv8UBNxpWh2OZwEP4pem+EQJ0=
>> > =rbQ3
>> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>> > ___
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>> > tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
>> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
>> >
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>>
>
>
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Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?

2013-08-26 Thread Konstantinos Asimakis 
Chuck do you run Tor on a separate machine to do that? Or have you found
some way to pass only your Tor traffic through the VPN?

Cheers.

-
My full signature with lots of links
etc.


On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Chuck Bevitt  wrote:

> I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time
> Warner). I did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I
> started using an anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a
> different IP than the rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem
> since. Costs less than $100 / year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure
> of protection from DMCA complaints.
>
> The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts
> via tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node.
> Not sure what the answer to that is.
>
> Chuck Bevitt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse  wrote:
>
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
> >
> > t...@t-3.net:
> >> Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is
> >> photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed
> >> merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
> >
> > That is correct[1].
> >
> > 1.
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-all-us-mail.html
> >
> > Best,
> > - -Gordon M.
> >
> >
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> >
> > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSGrNdAAoJED/jpRoe7/uj7ZIH/2tcPxpO0F0G+W0fI3cWu/CC
> > +Igh8j9zpXJkA1Z8YODuiyD26G3VQSg3IILXUjfCpzvLsP3xKzxImD3atocXK7y7
> > O7tLdgyLg4nPLNtILQtOe26g3W59ljxPJXoHRwGpO0N1g94qkggepxB3qz83UZe/
> > TPZ3iIhtImvYmzXgU1RHK+3X5ikAlRFShbgPG7IsZrsB9QMFgDL4fGL0x1/ipTLh
> > mfuzdHbfAYqW4zXVgn9wuncWZK/FY1D2e5gMbavrVpR1jRFxuAB81ty230ibOHPC
> > 1DX4+pqHZOWyNpEpADX+aejhpA9F2yLE6ahhnTtv8UBNxpWh2OZwEP4pem+EQJ0=
> > =rbQ3
> > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> > ___
> > tor-relays mailing list
> > tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
> > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
> >
> ___
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Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?

2013-08-26 Thread Chuck Bevitt 
I run a tor exit node (CulverCityChuck) using my home Internet (Time Warner). I 
did used to get blacklisted by Yelp and occasionally Google. I started using an 
anonymous VPN service for my exit node which gives it a different IP than the 
rest of my home traffic and haven't had a problem since. Costs less than $100 / 
year and gives me (and my ISP) some measure of protection from DMCA complaints.

The other side of the issue would be customers accessing web storefronts via 
tor and getting blocked because the traffic comes from an exit node. Not sure 
what the answer to that is.

Chuck Bevitt

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 25, 2013, at 6:46 PM, Gordon Morehouse  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> t...@t-3.net:
>> Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is 
>> photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed
>> merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.
> 
> That is correct[1].
> 
> 1.
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-all-us-mail.html
> 
> Best,
> - -Gordon M.
> 
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSGrNdAAoJED/jpRoe7/uj7ZIH/2tcPxpO0F0G+W0fI3cWu/CC
> +Igh8j9zpXJkA1Z8YODuiyD26G3VQSg3IILXUjfCpzvLsP3xKzxImD3atocXK7y7
> O7tLdgyLg4nPLNtILQtOe26g3W59ljxPJXoHRwGpO0N1g94qkggepxB3qz83UZe/
> TPZ3iIhtImvYmzXgU1RHK+3X5ikAlRFShbgPG7IsZrsB9QMFgDL4fGL0x1/ipTLh
> mfuzdHbfAYqW4zXVgn9wuncWZK/FY1D2e5gMbavrVpR1jRFxuAB81ty230ibOHPC
> 1DX4+pqHZOWyNpEpADX+aejhpA9F2yLE6ahhnTtv8UBNxpWh2OZwEP4pem+EQJ0=
> =rbQ3
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> ___
> tor-relays mailing list
> tor-relays@lists.torproject.org
> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-relays
> 
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Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?

2013-08-25 Thread Gordon Morehouse 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

t...@t-3.net:
> Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is 
> photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed
> merchandise isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.

That is correct[1].

1.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/us/postal-service-confirms-photographing-all-us-mail.html

Best,
- -Gordon M.


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJSGrNdAAoJED/jpRoe7/uj7ZIH/2tcPxpO0F0G+W0fI3cWu/CC
+Igh8j9zpXJkA1Z8YODuiyD26G3VQSg3IILXUjfCpzvLsP3xKzxImD3atocXK7y7
O7tLdgyLg4nPLNtILQtOe26g3W59ljxPJXoHRwGpO0N1g94qkggepxB3qz83UZe/
TPZ3iIhtImvYmzXgU1RHK+3X5ikAlRFShbgPG7IsZrsB9QMFgDL4fGL0x1/ipTLh
mfuzdHbfAYqW4zXVgn9wuncWZK/FY1D2e5gMbavrVpR1jRFxuAB81ty230ibOHPC
1DX4+pqHZOWyNpEpADX+aejhpA9F2yLE6ahhnTtv8UBNxpWh2OZwEP4pem+EQJ0=
=rbQ3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [tor-relays] What if my favorite online store websiteblacklists all Tor Relay IP addresses?

2013-08-25 Thread tor 
Likely someone was doing credit card fraud/hacking type stuff and 
choosing Tor as the way to connect for it. That stuff is a pain in the 
ass for online stores when it happens. Not surprised that outfits 
handling online payments don't want Tor connections, and I can't blame 
them tbh.


It shouldn't be hard to find a workaround if your purchases are 
infrequent and anonymity in that particular connection isn't an issue 
(cell phones have internet these days, 'net from a friend's house, 
whatever).


Not sure where you live but, I read that these days, USA is 
photographing the fronts of all postal mail. So, mailed merchandise 
isn't exactly a win on privacy anyway.





On Sunday 25/08/2013 at 4:23 pm, David Carlson  wrote:



On 8/25/2013 2:41 PM, Dave Lahr wrote:



I'm in the same boat:  for example yelp.com and TDBank North 
are blocking us.



On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM, David   Carlson 
 wrote:


It seems that at least two 'normal' online store websites 
that I visit
from time to time have apparently decided to block my IP 
address which I
am also using for a non-exit Tor relay.  I have had extended   
  discussions
with one of them and they considered unblocking my IP 
address to be a
risk greater than the lost income (US $160/year revenue) was   
  worth.
  They suggested switching to a different IP address, which
 was like
pulling hens' teeth from my ISP.  To do that, I had to have
 a technician
visit my house and install a new modem because they do not 
have a person
who understands tech talk available for ordinary users, and
 I couldn't
get sufficiently elevated in their support hierarchy.  The 
supposedly
dynamic IP address that I get from them hardly ever changes,   
  probably

because I am buying U-verse television service from them.
Now, after a couple of months, the "new" IP address is also
 blocked.


My question is this.  What if it becomes common practice for   
  commercial
entities such as online stores to block all IP addresses 
that they find
on lists of Tor relays such as 
 or the

official Tor metrics data?
That list is updated every half hour, includes all nodes, 
and is not
limited to exit nodes.  It currently lists 4438 nodes.  That   
  is a
manageable size for a blacklist, but it could represent tens   
  or hundreds

of thousands of clients.

Wouldn't this eventually either cripple the Tor network or 
generally
discourage Tor clients that can no longer buy products 
online from store

XYZ through the Tor network?

David C
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 In the short term, it is possible to to circumvent these practices   
 by using one or more of several different methods, but informing the 
   online store that they are shooting themselves in the foot is not  
  one of them.  After all, they are experts and we are just 
ignoramuses, even if we know what an IP address is.
Also, client tactics like going to a public hotspot is either not an   
  option for someone who wants the Tor anonymity, or problematic at
 best if all or nearly all Tor node IP addresses are blocked at the
 vendor end.


That is why I asked the general question.
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