[tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
My question involves 2 scenarios. 1. Installing both TBB & Vidalia bundle, so other apps could be torrified if need to close Tor browser. 2. Install & run TBB & Vidalia bundle simultaneously, so if close TBB, don't have to wait for Vidalia startup to torrify other apps. Not sure which of these would be more common, at present. Tor Project is moving away from Torbutton, which is fine - urging use of TBB. Sometimes I may not want Firefox in TBB open, or may need to close it, which closes Tor. But, may either already have other apps running, using Tor, or want to start them quickly. Is there a problem using both - either separately (one active at a time), or simultaneously? Last, for non browser apps, is there a standard way to check if they're using Tor (say, Thunderbird or other apps), as the check for browsers? ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
I'm still sticking to Torbutton - I prefer the flexibility of being able to switch it on and off when I need, rather than launching a new browser. That being said, I frequently run Tor with Firefox at the same time as my e-mail client (all of which is routed through Tor). As long as Vidalia's opened, you should be able to use multiple programs with Tor simultaneously. With Thunderbird, you can check by sending a test e-mail, even to yourself, then looking at the source. It's working if you get something that looks like this: Received: from [0.0.0.0] (tor-exit-router45-readme.formlessnetworking.net [199.48.147.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v16sm1593516ibf.42.2011.08.11.09.06.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA); Not sure about other apps like Pidgin etc. > Is there a problem using both - either separately (one active at a > time), or simultaneously? > > Last, for non browser apps, is there a standard way to check if > they're using Tor (say, Thunderbird or other apps), as the check for > browsers? > ___ > tor-talk mailing list > tor-talk@lists.torproject.org > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On 8/11/2011 11:08 AM, Phillip wrote: I'm still sticking to Torbutton - I prefer the flexibility of being able to switch it on and off when I need, rather than launching a new browser. That being said, I frequently run Tor with Firefox at the same time as my e-mail client (all of which is routed through Tor). As long as Vidalia's opened, you should be able to use multiple programs with Tor simultaneously. With Thunderbird, you can check by sending a test e-mail, even to yourself, then looking at the source. It's working if you get something that looks like this: Received: from [0.0.0.0] (tor-exit-router45-readme.formlessnetworking.net [199.48.147.45]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v16sm1593516ibf.42.2011.08.11.09.06.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA); Not sure about other apps like Pidgin etc. Is there a problem using both - either separately (one active at a time), or simultaneously? Last, for non browser apps, is there a standard way to check if they're using Tor (say, Thunderbird or other apps), as the check for browsers? ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk Thanks Phillip. I'll try that w/ Tbird. But, still like to know if can install both vidalia bundle & Tor browser bundle at same time (even if not running at same time). Like you, I might have other apps I want to run thru Tor, but don't necessarily want Tor browser open. Or if TBB hangs & have to close, then any other apps running thru Tor lose their connection / anonymity. According to what I've read here, development / security of Tor button is not high priority anymore & trying to phase it out. However, not having ability to run Tor w/o a browser open has some drawbacks. You don't need Tor button to user Tor for another app, as long as you can verify it's using Tor. That's why I asked about installing both. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 05:34:08PM -0500, Joe Btfsplk wrote: > But, still like to know if can > install both vidalia bundle & Tor browser bundle at same time (even if > not running at same time). Installing both at once is no problem -- TBB doesn't require any "install", so there's nothing to conflict. But running both at once won't work currently: the Tor in each of them tries to bind to the same ports, so the first one to run will win and the second one to run will lose. We're actually trying to fix that so they can be run together though. Keep an eye on upcoming TBB announcements. > Like you, I might have other apps I want to run thru Tor, but don't > necessarily want Tor browser open. I agree. I wonder if we should come up with some option in the TBB Vidalia 'advanced' window, along the lines of "don't close TBB when Firefox closes". Vidalia is working on a plugin approach, so for example that checkbox might become an option in the "TBB panel" in Vidalia. --Roger ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On 8/14/2011 12:30 AM, Roger Dingledine wrote: On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 05:34:08PM -0500, Joe Btfsplk wrote: But, still like to know if can install both vidalia bundle& Tor browser bundle at same time (even if not running at same time). Installing both at once is no problem -- TBB doesn't require any "install", so there's nothing to conflict. But running both at once won't work currently: the Tor in each of them tries to bind to the same ports, so the first one to run will win and the second one to run will lose. We're actually trying to fix that so they can be run together though. Keep an eye on upcoming TBB announcements. Like you, I might have other apps I want to run thru Tor, but don't necessarily want Tor browser open. I agree. I wonder if we should come up with some option in the TBB Vidalia 'advanced' window, along the lines of "don't close TBB when Firefox closes". Vidalia is working on a plugin approach, so for example that checkbox might become an option in the "TBB panel" in Vidalia. --Roger something like an option / preference "don't close TBB when Firefox closes" sounds like a solution. Technically, it'd be "don't close Tor / Vidalia" wouldn't it, because "TBB" includes Tor? Firefox in TBB is dependent on Tor, but Tor (in TBB) doesn't necessarily have to be dependent on Firefox running. Installing both, & running one, shutting it down, starting the other is doable, but kinda pain. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On Aug 14, 2011, at 8:07 PM, Joe Btfsplk wrote: > On 8/14/2011 12:30 AM, Roger Dingledine wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 05:34:08PM -0500, Joe Btfsplk wrote: >>> But, still like to know if can >>> install both vidalia bundle& Tor browser bundle at same time (even if >>> not running at same time). >> Installing both at once is no problem -- TBB doesn't require any >> "install", so there's nothing to conflict. >> >> But running both at once won't work currently: the Tor in each of them >> tries to bind to the same ports, so the first one to run will win and >> the second one to run will lose. >> >> We're actually trying to fix that so they can be run together though. >> Keep an eye on upcoming TBB announcements. >> >>> Like you, I might have other apps I want to run thru Tor, but don't >>> necessarily want Tor browser open. >> I agree. I wonder if we should come up with some option in the TBB >> Vidalia 'advanced' window, along the lines of "don't close TBB when >> Firefox closes". >> >> Vidalia is working on a plugin approach, so for example that checkbox >> might become an option in the "TBB panel" in Vidalia. >> >> --Roger > something like an option / preference "don't close TBB when Firefox closes" > sounds like a solution. Technically, it'd be "don't close Tor / Vidalia" > wouldn't it, because "TBB" includes Tor? > Firefox in TBB is dependent on Tor, but Tor (in TBB) doesn't necessarily have > to be dependent on Firefox running. > > Installing both, & running one, shutting it down, starting the other is > doable, but kinda pain. Alternatively, as a hackish fix, you could modify your "permanent" installation to bind to ports that won't conflict with TBB. Off the top of my head, I think you'd want to pick non-default values for ControlPort and SocksPort in your torrc (with matching values in Vidalia), as well as a non-default value for proxyPort in Polipo's config file, and changing socksParentProxy (also in Polipo's config file) to point to the new value you've given to torrc's SocksPort. I don't have TorButton to fenangle with on this computer, but I'm sure somewhere in its options or in about:config you can change the port it looks for Polipo on, or plug it directly into Tor's socks port if you're not using Polipo. The ultimate goal here is to have your "permanent" installation of Tor/Vidalia/Polipo/Firefox/Torbutton use a completely different set of ports than TBB. Like I said, hackish, but the result should be worth it if you use both often. ~Justin Aplin ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On 8/14/2011 7:47 PM, Justin Aplin wrote: something like an option / preference "don't close TBB when Firefox closes" sounds like a solution. Technically, it'd be "don't close Tor / Vidalia" wouldn't it, because "TBB" includes Tor? Firefox in TBB is dependent on Tor, but Tor (in TBB) doesn't necessarily have to be dependent on Firefox running. Installing both,& running one, shutting it down, starting the other is doable, but kinda pain. Alternatively, as a hackish fix, you could modify your "permanent" installation to bind to ports that won't conflict with TBB. Off the top of my head, I think you'd want to pick non-default values for ControlPort and SocksPort in your torrc (with matching values in Vidalia), as well as a non-default value for proxyPort in Polipo's config file, and changing socksParentProxy (also in Polipo's config file) to point to the new value you've given to torrc's SocksPort. I don't have TorButton to fenangle with on this computer, but I'm sure somewhere in its options or in about:config you can change the port it looks for Polipo on, or plug it directly into Tor's socks port if you're not using Polipo. The ultimate goal here is to have your "permanent" installation of Tor/Vidalia/Polipo/Firefox/Torbutton use a completely different set of ports than TBB. Like I said, hackish, but the result should be worth it if you use both often. ~Justin Aplin Thanks JA, that seems a possible work around (hopefully needed only temporarily - until TBB options are added). Maybe I misunderstand, but aren't THE ports Tor uses for HTTP / SSL = 8118 and SOCKS= 9050. So when you say "Use a completely diff. set of ports than TBB," please elaborate for me & others. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On Aug 15, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Joe Btfsplk wrote: > On 8/14/2011 7:47 PM, Justin Aplin wrote: >>> something like an option / preference "don't close TBB when Firefox closes" >>> sounds like a solution. Technically, it'd be "don't close Tor / Vidalia" >>> wouldn't it, because "TBB" includes Tor? >>> Firefox in TBB is dependent on Tor, but Tor (in TBB) doesn't necessarily >>> have to be dependent on Firefox running. >>> >>> Installing both,& running one, shutting it down, starting the other is >>> doable, but kinda pain. >> Alternatively, as a hackish fix, you could modify your "permanent" >> installation to bind to ports that won't conflict with TBB. Off the top of >> my head, I think you'd want to pick non-default values for ControlPort and >> SocksPort in your torrc (with matching values in Vidalia), as well as a >> non-default value for proxyPort in Polipo's config file, and changing >> socksParentProxy (also in Polipo's config file) to point to the new value >> you've given to torrc's SocksPort. >> >> I don't have TorButton to fenangle with on this computer, but I'm sure >> somewhere in its options or in about:config you can change the port it looks >> for Polipo on, or plug it directly into Tor's socks port if you're not using >> Polipo. >> >> The ultimate goal here is to have your "permanent" installation of >> Tor/Vidalia/Polipo/Firefox/Torbutton use a completely different set of ports >> than TBB. Like I said, hackish, but the result should be worth it if you use >> both often. >> >> ~Justin Aplin > Thanks JA, that seems a possible work around (hopefully needed only > temporarily - until TBB options are added). > > Maybe I misunderstand, but aren't THE ports Tor uses for HTTP / SSL = 8118 > and SOCKS= 9050. So when you say "Use a completely diff. set of ports than > TBB," please elaborate for me & others. They are the defaults, yes, but they can be overridden. You can use either SocksPort or SocksListenAddress in your torrc to specify a different port (other than 9050) for Tor to listen for SOCKS connections, and you can use proxyPort in Polio's config file to specify a different port (other than 8118) for Polipo to listen for HTTP/SSL connections on. The Polipo config option socksParentProxy specifies *where* the data received from proxyPort should be fed to, so in this case you would want it to match SocksPort, so that your HTTP/SSL data gets fed into the Tor SOCKS port. The idea is that you could use TBB "stock", without editing any options (ie, all default ports: 8118, 9050, 9051, etc), where all data from the TBB instance of Firefox is fed into the TBB instance of Polipo on 8118, piped to the TBB instance of Tor on 9050, and controlled on port 9051 by the TBB instance of Vidalia. What you're trying to edit is your "permanent" installations of these programs, where the data from the permanent instance of Firefox is fed into the permanent instance of Polipo on a custom port you define, piped to the permanent instance of Tor on a custom port you define, and controlled by the permanent instance of Vidalia on a custom port you define. What you end up with is two different "sets" of Firefox/Polipo/Tor/Vidalia operating independently, which I think is what you were trying to accomplish in the first place. The only thing I'm not sure of is where Torbutton fits into all this, but I get the feeling that it shouldn't require too much fenangling with the options in the "permanent" instance's options to get things up and running. ~Justin Aplin ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
Re: [tor-talk] Any problem installing TBB & Vidalia bundle on same machine?
On 8/14/2011 7:47 PM, Justin Aplin wrote: On Sat, Aug 13, 2011 at 05:34:08PM -0500, Joe Btfsplk wrote: But, still like to know if can install both vidalia bundle& Tor browser bundle at same time (even if not running at same time). Alternatively, as a hackish fix, you could modify your "permanent" installation to bind to ports that won't conflict with TBB. Off the top of my head, I think you'd want to pick non-default values for ControlPort and SocksPort in your torrc (with matching values in Vidalia), as well as a non-default value for proxyPort in Polipo's config file, and changing socksParentProxy (also in Polipo's config file) to point to the new value you've given to torrc's SocksPort. *I don't have TorButton to fenangle with * on this computer, but I'm sure somewhere in its options or in about:config you can change the port it looks for Polipo on, or plug it directly into Tor's socks port if you're not using Polipo. The ultimate goal here is to have your "permanent" installation of Tor/Vidalia/Polipo/ * Firefox/TORBUTTON * use a completely different set of ports than TBB. Like I said, hackish, but the result should be worth it if you use both often. ~Justin Aplin Justin, after re reading your suggestion few times, realized we don't seem to be talking about same thing. I didn't mean running TBB & a ver of FF w/ Tor / Torbutton. I meant TBB and just Tor / Vidalia/ Polipo (no Firefox, Torbutton involved), so other apps could be torrified, but not w/ Firefox running. So any reference to Firefox / Torbutton don't apply to what I & others wanted to do: Have a separate installation of Tor / Vidalia & run other (non browser) apps thru Tor - whether at same time TBB is running or not. Preferably, WHILE they're both running (TBB and Tor /Vidalia - sans Torbutton). Maybe you did understand me, but I didn't understand reply! Thanks. ___ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
