Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Ok, I let it play with shut off amplifier for 3 full days now: Now I switchted amp on and do NOT hear any sound differences with same settings and files as before. Still muddy, closed comparing to my first one: its subtible, but noticable through my system speakers with ribbon tweeters. So what shell I do? 1) Get back to my dealer and get a new one? What argument? 2) Get an external DAC, Im looking for a Bryston BDA, and connect inbetween Touch Amp? 3) Try to bridge the caps? (I started to do that with my first, but I do not have the right instruments - like suitable soldering iron,aso..- for proper surgery Ithink Im not skilled enough) 4) Extend burn in time? Thanks Jacky -- Jacky Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Jacky;593712 Wrote: 1) Get back to my dealer and get a new one? What argument? Obviously. You have a properly working one from before. The new one doesn't sound as good, hence it must be faulty. There's no arguing with that argument. -Skinny -- Skinny This sentence says less than a list of audio equipment. Skinny's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21538 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
According to AKM4420 description the ideal output should be 0V, but there could be still DC- offsets of +/- 60mV for each chanel. So for symmetrical reasons, the caps are implemented to ensure no DC offset at all and not loading one chanel more than the other. For usual commercial amplifiers what effects could be without these caps other than better sound? On the other side, most of SS-amplifiers have at all RCA input-stages caps. Jacky -- Jacky Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
After having read 'this thread' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83412), I think I'm going to rip out the caps from my Touch. Eventually. Just have to muster the necessary courage first. I hate messing with surface mounted stuff. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Jacky;593500 Wrote: According to AKM4420 description the ideal output should be 0V, but there could be still DC- offsets of +/- 60mV for each chanel. So for symmetrical reasons, the caps are implemented to ensure no DC offset at all and not loading one chanel more than the other. For usual commercial amplifiers what effects could be without these caps other than better sound? On the other side, most of SS-amplifiers have at all RCA input-stages caps. Jacky The problem is these are polarized electrolytic caps. They are designed to have at least a volt or two DC across them to work properly. The DC bias causes an ionic current flow which deposits oxides at the boundary. Its this very thin oxide layer which produces the large capacitance of the device. Without that DC bias the oxide layer doesn't form and the cap doesn't work the way its supposed to. In actuality the music signal (particularly loud bass) is constantly forming and unforming the oxide layer. This leads to a signal correlated capacitance change which gives rise to distortion. The lower the impedance the Touch drives the worse this effect is going to be. If the designers wanted a safety cap they should have used a non-polarized cap of some sort, preferably a good film type. Back to the original subject of this thread, in normal use a polarized electrolytic cap with DC bias quickly reaches an equilibrium state where the oxide layer thickness stays fairly constant. But without bias voltage this does not happen. As you play music there will be a small amount of residual oxide forming at the boundary but it may not even form a full insulating layer. The exact status of that oxide layer is going to be changing with time. There is almost certainly going to be a significant change in behavior at first which will slowly settle down over time. Whether those changes change the sound for the better or for the worse is difficult to say. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
You mean both analog stage out caps? Indeed, I connect my SBT via the analog outputs directly to an amplifier. So lets see whats going on after several days: Ill let you know. Thanks Jacky -- Jacky Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Do the RCA outputs need to be loaded in order for burn in to occur? I currently only have the headphone jack connected, on my relatively new Touch. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
JohnSwenson;593221 Wrote: You've got improperly biased output caps in there, I would not be surprised if it takes awhile playing music to stabilize those caps. Let it run continuously for several days before making any critical listening decisions. Its best if its actually feeding the device its going to be connected to (that device probably does not have to be turned on). John S. Silly responses like this make me laugh. Go study electronics and come back with a decent answer and stop proposing guessing to impress those with less of an idea. -- Waldo Pepper Waldo Pepper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Waldo Pepper;593391 Wrote: Silly responses like this make me laugh. Go study electronics and come back with a decent answer and stop proposing guessing to impress those with less of an idea. Silly responses like this make me laugh. Go and listen to new and burned in components and come back with a decent answer and stop proposing guessing to impress those with less of an idea. :) :) :) -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Waldo Pepper;593391 Wrote: Silly responses like this make me laugh. Go study electronics and come back with a decent answer and stop proposing guessing to impress those with less of an idea. I do not know why you bother to write bs like this. John is right. The output caps sound rotten. I've bypassed them so I know. This may very well be the reason for the OP's SBT's sounding different. -- OGS Vortexbox - Touch (bypassed output caps) - Rotel RB-1060 (mod) - Tannoy Sensys DC1 (mod) OGS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32981 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Hi Got my second brand new touch, plug in the same way as the previous one with all same settings, but the sound seems to be different. Its not so open, lacks slightly on bass, not homogenous like my first SBT. I can not remember of a burn in sensation in my first one, or I did not pay much attention to this possible phenomenon. There are also a lot of threads in my country (Austria) about burn in for electronics, speakers, which I mostly believe, but have somebody check any sound differences after couple of hours? Or should I change for a nother SBT? Jacky -- Jacky Jacky's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38257 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] Second SBT sounds different
Jacky;593164 Wrote: Hi Got my second brand new touch, plug in the same way as the previous one with all same settings, but the sound seems to be different. Its not so open, lacks slightly on bass, not homogenous like my first SBT. I can not remember of a burn in sensation in my first one, or I did not pay much attention to this possible phenomenon. There are also a lot of threads in my country (Austria) about burn in for electronics, speakers, which I mostly believe, but have somebody check any sound differences after couple of hours? Or should I change for a nother SBT? Jacky You've got improperly biased output caps in there, I would not be surprised if it takes awhile playing music to stabilize those caps. Let it run continuously for several days before making any critical listening decisions. Its best if its actually feeding the device its going to be connected to (that device probably does not have to be turned on). John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=83714 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
