Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-22 Thread Caleb Herbert
On Mon, 2018-08-13 at 05:06 +0200, hd-sca...@users.sf.net wrote:
> So semi-nonfree like the same issues found from Qt5-WebEngine? PureOS
> has  
> liberated Qt5-WebEngine and I have sources at home.

Why should I believe that PureOS cleaned Qt5-WebEngine?

I want to believe it, but PureOS has been sketchy from the start.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-21 Thread onpon4

I meant to reply to this.

Trisquel doesn't support snaps. The facility was removed because making it  
only libre software snaps was too much work (if I understood the reason  
correctly). This should serve as a reminder that just because something works  
in Ubuntu doesn't necessarily mean it works on Trisquel the same way.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-20 Thread mason
> callousness of microsoft,
> and callousness of systemd devs.

I know that systemd is not your preferred init system, but do you really think 
Red Hat and Microsoft are comparable?

Red Hat creates free software that not everybody likes. There is nothing 
unethical about not pleasing everybody. Microsoft on the other hand creates 
mostly proprietary software, much of which is malware. This is unethical.

These two bug reports don't seem comparable either. The vscode bug has been 
ignored by the developers and left unfixed for over a year. It is still a 
problem. The systemd bug was fixed promptly. It stopped being a problem a long 
time ago.

I'm glad that there are FSDG distros like Parabola and Hyperbola that support 
other init systems so that people who do not prefer systemd have these options, 
but this is not a freedom issue.

If "init freedom" is having a choice between different init systems, then 
Hyperbola and Trisquel offer very little init freedom, as they each support 
only one init system. In both cases, however, the init system is free software, 
so this doesn't make Hyperbola and Trisquel less free than Parabola, which 
supports two init systems.

Similarly, none of these distros have very much "kernel freedom" as they only 
support Linux-libre. However, Linux-libre is free software, so this does not 
make them less free than GuixSD, which has support for Hurd in development.

Also similarly, Devuan reduced the number of choices of desktop environment by 
excluding GNOME, so it has less "desktop freedom" than Debian. However, as long 
as the desktop environments that it does include are free software, this does 
not make Devuan less free than Debian (although it may be less free for other 
reasons).

Lack of support for certain software is not a freedom issue, as long as the 
software that is supported is free. 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-20 Thread calmstorm

This doesn't surprise me one bit.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-20 Thread calmstorm
Just so you know, I did make a joke, it was about callousness of microsoft,  
and callousness of systemd devs.


and I should have been more clear, if you need to make fun of anti-systemd  
people rather than inits, which I am sure you do, there is no problem,  ps, I  
have nothing against vegans.


I really don't like people who say evil is good and good is evil. Those are  
the people I have the most trouble with.


As for not quitting my day job, meh... weird rebuttal, but okay.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-20 Thread mason
> https://snapcraft.io/vscode

Like the binary distributed by Micro$oft, this appears to be proprietary.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-19 Thread onpon4
> Removing systemd completely including library files is near impossible in  
debian.


I don't know about that. But if so, it would only be because systemd is just  
so useful.


> PS, what are the specfics of this?

Take a look at the link MB gave:

https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-18 Thread calmstorm
The cons mentioned are either from the web links I mentioned, with one  
exception,


Removing systemd completely including library files is near impossible in  
debian.


Even if you are installing sysvinit or openrc combo in exchange.

I think ubuntu choose systemd because debian did.

"Lots. *Everything* about systemd is better than SysV-init, which is why no  
one ever planned on keeping the latter. The battle was between systemd and  
Upstart, and systemd won out because the Debian developer community decided  
that systemd was the better choice and as such, Ubuntu decided to switch to  
it too and abandon Upstart development."


PS, what are the specfics of this? just wondering...


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-18 Thread calmstorm

That's my only complaint with devuan to be honest.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-18 Thread calmstorm

Alright, I had no idea that the answer I looked up was wrong.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-18 Thread onpon4
Wow, so some systemd haters are actually engaged in active quote-mining? I  
didn't expect it to be that bad.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-17 Thread onpon4

> what advantages does systemd have

Lots. *Everything* about systemd is better than SysV-init, which is why no  
one ever planned on keeping the latter. The battle was between systemd and  
Upstart, and systemd won out because the Debian developer community decided  
that systemd was the better choice and as such, Ubuntu decided to switch to  
it too and abandon Upstart development.


Of course systemd isn't used universally; for example GuixSD uses GNU  
Shepherd and Gentoo uses OpenRC. But systemd is very popular for Linux-based  
systems because it's very good at what it does.


> I have seen more cons

Such as?

> it is a neverending project

I should hope so! If it wasn't, that would make it unmaintained. Linux is a  
neverending project, that's the only reason it's safe to use.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-17 Thread tegskywalker

Since Trisquel is based on Ubuntu, you can also install the Snap:

https://snapcraft.io/vscode



Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-17 Thread calmstorm
Okay, but what advantages does systemd have then that makes it worth changing  
to besides being easier on developers.


I honestly don't see any so far, other than that its easier on the  
developers. I have seen more cons than pros personally.


But  actually I read devuan's position and without-systemd.org and  
nosystemd.org.


I read something about how it is a neverending project. Poettering even said  
that according to wikipedia, and I am wondering what his goal is.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

 Tell me, is the accepted answer at this link correct?

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/5877/what-are-the-pros-cons-of-upstart-and-systemd/6190

It says it manages passwords even



Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-17 Thread joe

> has devuan succeeded

Devuan, unlike Debian before it, is not committed to freedom on principle.   
The release notes for Devuan 2.0 say, for example, "All Devuan 2.0 ASCII  
install media make non-free firmware packages available at install time".


All Devuan install media contain nonfree packages: That doesn't look like a  
successful, freedom-promoting fork of Debian to me; other peoples' opinions  
may differ, of course.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-16 Thread onpon4
> I never, have said you cannot make fun of anti-systemd inits, just don't do  
it in anger.


No. Not inits. You. You do realize that the systemd developers are people,  
right?


> I just don't get why at the drop of a coin I make a joke about it, and you  
guys go to town on me.


If I may be frank, you didn't make a joke. All you did was link to a thread  
which had nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, and made a  
statement about it.


Is this a good joke in that same context?

"They took that issue about as seriously as these vegans took my rebuttals!"

Or is this a form of targeted harassment toward the vegans I've linked to?

>  I do the same thing with my president, donald trump, I make jokes about  
him for amusement purposes.


Don't quit your day job.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-16 Thread onpon4
> why has devuan succeeded in getting community support when fedora's and  
ubuntu's systemd-free forks failed?


I can't say I know what you're talking about. It's been a long time since I  
looked, but when I did, Devuan was lagging severely behind Debian. Meanwhile,  
Debian continues forward exactly as before, and Fedora has been using systemd  
for years with no apparent drop in "community support".


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-16 Thread calmstorm
Conspiracy theories aside, I don't know if systemd is a backdoor or not, I  
just prefer not use it,


but tell me, why has devuan succeeded in getting community support when  
fedora's and


ubuntu's systemd-free forks failed?

Just wondering what your thoughts are.




Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-16 Thread calmstorm
I don't understand how this is wrong, I never, have said you cannot make fun  
of anti-systemd inits, just don't do it in anger.


If you like systemd, good for you, I just don't get why at the drop of a coin  
I make a joke about it, and you guys go to town on me.


You can do the same thing, just don't flame me over it that's all.

I was not flaming nor shaming, I wasn't intending to make this into a big  
issue, I merely was saying, it doesn't look good when you lock a thread from  
everyone but people who agree with you.  Poettering just as easily could have  
locked it fully.  That's all.


I don't create drama intentionally, you greatly misunderstand my purpose with  
this, I do the same thing with my president, donald trump, I make jokes about  
him for amusement purposes. Not drama.


PS, This goes for magic banana too, I don't say you have to do things my way  
or else... and I don't say both of you have to agree with me, just be  
respectful, not angry. If you disagree, fine but people will talk if they  
disagree. You have the right to think what you want and say what you want and  
so do I.





Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-15 Thread onpon4
Using a thread that has nothing to do with systemd to publicly shame a  
systemd developer doesn't strike me as a very nice thing to do. How would you  
like it if on some forum about, I don't know, turkey sausages, some random  
guy was linking to your posts on the Trisquel forums and making fun of you  
for them? Incidentally, that person would likely get a warning and have his  
post deleted; most forums have a policy against bringing in drama from other  
websites/forums.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-15 Thread calmstorm
Man, you need to chill out, I was only saying that they should have locked  
the thread or left it open to everyone.


geez, and stop telling me what to do man, you are not my master.

ps, in trisquel you are correct, no threads related to systemd problems, but  
in others you don't know for sure as they could have been immediately locked.


I am only going to tell you this once, enjoy systemd if you like it, but stop  
flaming people who disagree with you.


Such arrogance...


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-14 Thread calmstorm
I was going to ignore the thumbs down, but I feel its important, to say why I  
put this post here,


Anytime you lock a thread just because you don't want  to hear something, you  
should lock it from everyone responding including yourself.


You shouldn't block only people who might disagree with you.
My point being, in the spirit of freedom all I was saying is that you either  
lock it completely or leave it open. That's it done and done.





Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-12 Thread hd-scania
So definitely VScode is nonfree for sure, then you instead need free IDE's  
like Eclipse.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-12 Thread hd-scania
So semi-nonfree like the same issues found from Qt5-WebEngine? PureOS has  
liberated Qt5-WebEngine and I have sources at home.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-12 Thread k . jasny . 2003

"MICROSOFT NEVER GIVES SOMETHING FREE! Just always remember this."

Funny, I swear I just saw a useful text editor released as MIT-licensed free  
software. Wait, nevermind. It's Microsoft who released it, the company which  
deserves the strongest hate for whatever it does, that's why it should be  
avoided. Since rational thinking of using free software is no match for the  
feelings directed towards this company.


What data does it send exactly? I trust you have studied the sources (I never  
had time and patience to do so), so can you answer me and point to the code  
responsible for sending that particular data? So I can quickly replace it and  
send whatever I want to the next time I compile and use it. Thank you in  
advance.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-12 Thread jonnymoon96
as far as VS code is concerned only the source code is free software flathub  
does contain propritatary software such as spotify and steam so unless you  
are running pureos an fsf approved distro you should not use flatpak


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-10 Thread hadipeyrow
Why you don't use powerful editors such as vim and emacs? vim and emacs has  
many great plugins for python development.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-04 Thread xdknight
VS Code is Microsoft's stuff. When you install it, it immediately starts to  
send your data to Microsoft, only after that is asks "Whould like to continue  
send data to Microsoft?"

You should avoid Microsoft stuff as it was fire.

MICROSOFT NEVER GIVES SOMETHING FREE! Just always remember this.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-03 Thread calmstorm

That thread was given about as much respect as this one:

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/5644


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-02 Thread Caleb Herbert
Oh, show me your Emacs config! :D :D :D


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-02 Thread Caleb Herbert
On Wed, 2018-08-01 at 02:13 +0200, inthefor...@autistici.org wrote:
> I would feel awful even if I had a libre copy of vscode.

$ sudo apt purge cups


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-08-01 Thread amoraleslepe5

Hey forum, long time member/lurker, logged in just to add my $0.02 USD

The Visual Studio Code binary from Microsoft is proprietary. It uses the  
MIT-licensed source code available at https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode as  
its base, however it contains changes that are not distributed.


There is a Free build in Flathub which is also compiled from the MIT-licensed  
code and is released under a free license (GNU Affero General Public License  
v3). This free build is available here:  
https://github.com/flathub/com.visualstudio.code.oss


This free version is also published in Flathub:  
https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.visualstudio.code.oss
That one should be preferable, however, I don't know what is the situation  
regarding plugins, if it does anything to prevent the installation of  
non-free plugins, or if it allows plugins at all. 


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread khanhduongdv

> According to the FSF website it's free

This is not true
https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Visual_Studio_Code

It hasn't been approved yet, and I doubt it will be accepted.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest
Yes! What an awesome thing to look at 4:34 AM. It makes me want to make a cup  
of coffee or two.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest

chaosmonk, I've just read it. Oh, what a shame.

dcapeletti, I hope you have no more doubts ;) 


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread heckyel
The most recommended is that don't use the vs code. In his replacement always  
this emacs. And if you want a basic and pleasant configuration I have a basic  
personalization of emacs


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread Mason Hock
> I believe that everyone should be very accurate when using anything
> 'open-source'.

See this bug.[1] Micro$oft doesn't just distribute a proprietary binary; they 
falsely tell users that it is free and open source on the download page[2] for 
the binary. The fix is simple: either (a) remove the phrase "Free. Open 
source." from the download page, or (b) replace the download link with one for 
an MIT-licensed binary, yet 18 months and 30 comments later the bug is still 
open. Clearly it is not an oversight but intentional deception. 

[1] https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/17996
[2] https://code.visualstudio.com/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest
I think that the problem is that the majority of potential vscode users don't  
mind about freedom. So they will get proprietary software from Microsoft,  
which misleads them by calling it 'open-source', and uses the power of the  
community to make non-free software.
I believe that everyone should be very accurate when using anything  
'open-source'. Yes, what Microsoft is doing is evil, and it is not fine.


I would feel awful even if I had a libre copy of vscode.

 


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread k . jasny . 2003
Apparently nobody had anything productive to say (or maybe these people are  
more "open-source-oriented" and don't care about software freedom, as long as  
unobfuscated code is available?). I have, however:


It's up to the program authors to decide, what license do they release it  
under. They decided that the sources are libre, their binaries are their  
property. Where's the problem? They can't be compiled with libre software or  
something? The authors' vision is so evil that we should boycott them and not  
use their libre code?


I just don't understand, I thought that as long as software is released under  
a libre license, it's absolutely fine to use it.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest
It is interesting that the only one comment that raises the question of  
justice and freedom (maybe not as directly, as needed) doesn't get any reply.

https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-295544710

He shouldn't have written "free of charge" too, but basically he thinks in  
the right direction.





Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread k . jasny . 2003

https://github.com/Microsoft/vscode/issues/60#issuecomment-161792005
Hopefully this explains everything. My opinion: don't give up, grab the code,  
compile it and enjoy an awesome libre IDE.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread Caleb Herbert
VSCode is an Electron program.  Electron includes a huge amount of code
derived from Chromium, so it is in the same undetermined state as it.

Therefore, many of us do not use Chromium, Etcher, Riot Desktop or
VSCode.


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest

The continuation of the 4th restriction:
- share, publish, or lend the software, or provide it as a hosted  
solution for others to use, or transfer the software or this agreement to any  
third party. 


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread intheforest
This is a part of the license that implies to the 'product'. The source code  
of the vscode with HUGE 'OPEN SOURCE' near it is under MIT license with  
Microsoft reserving all their rights.


The software contains third party components licensed under open source  
licenses with source code availability obligations. Copies of those licenses  
are included in the ThirdPartyNotices file or accompanying credits file. You  
may obtain the complete corresponding source code from us if and as required  
under the relevant open source licenses by sending a money order or check for  
$5.00 to: Source Code Compliance Team, Microsoft Corporation, 1 Microsoft  
Way, Redmond, WA 98052 USA. Please write “third party source code for  
Visual Studio Code” in the memo line of your payment. We may also make the  
source available at http://thirdpartysource.microsoft.com/.


. . .

SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only  
gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other  
rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation,  
you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In  
doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that  
only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not


- work around any technical limitations in the software;
- reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, or otherwise  
attempt to derive the source code for the   software except, and solely to  
the extent: (i) permitted by applicable law, despite this limitation; or (ii)  
required to debug changes to any libraries licensed under the GNU Lesser  
General Public License which are included with and linked to by the software;
- remove, minimize, block or modify any notices of Microsoft or its  
suppliers in the software;

- use the software in any way that is against the law; or

And this is their privacy statement which I am lazy to quote, but it as  
absurd, as above: https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement


I agree with CalmStrom 


Re: [Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread calmstorm
Do what stallman recommends, or use eclipse or idle3 or some other libre  
alternative.


[Trisquel-users] VS Code is free software?

2018-07-31 Thread d . a . capeletti

Hi, there,
I'm looking for an IDE for python. VS code is going very well and I want to  
have it in my system. According to the FSF website it's free, but I have my  
doubts. What do you think?  
https://directory.fsf.org/wiki?title=Visual_Studio_Code=36929


Thank you