Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hello Jurgen >> 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that >> it shall be made not-known. I think you are right that this "made" is wrong. Because: "Taking the effect out of existence" is "self". "Be not known" is "others". But: "Be made not known" would also be "self" so we would get "self to self". My understanding only. However, in my opinion (which doesn't seem to have many friends here) we should not change the manual itself but collect errors – or what we think are errors – in an additional errata sheet provided together with the original manuscript. Nothing seems to be wrong with correcting obvious mistakes. But somewhere along the line, sooner later, inevitably (Murphy's Law), something that was correct will be changed into something wrong. And on and on and on, and someday the workability is lost. >> Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made >> known’ or ‘make known’. >> Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not >> known’ or ‘make not known’. In this 2 examples (from you, not the manual) I think "shall be made known" and "shall be made not known" do not fit well, because they lack the twin postulate structure. "Make known" and "make not known" do have the twin postulate structure. Regards Roberto Von: Jurgen Kluft [mailto:jurgen_t...@hotmail.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2013 03:23 An: The Resolution of Mind list Betreff: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Jurgen, I agree that the word 'made' seems superfluous, and could be left out; however, I don't think that it changes the meaning. Is this really important ? Aarre Peltomaa On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jurgen Kluft wrote: > * > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > > > Hi Trommers, > > I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the > whole thing sink in. > When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this > point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. > > It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: > > “ > > The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: > 1.The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate > that it shall be known.2.The postulate taking the effect out of > existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known.3.The > postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. > 4.The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be > made not-known. > > “ > > The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be *made* not-known’. > It is of my understanding that the word ‘*made*’ should be removed. > > Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made > known’ or ‘make known’. > Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not > known’ or ‘make not known’. > > We can thus abbreviate the above four points: > 1. Make known - Know > 2. Make not known - Not know > 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) > 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) > > And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: > “ > SELFOTHERS1. Make known. > 2. Make not-known > 3. Know. > 4. Not-know.Know. > Not-know. > Make known. > Make not-known. > “ > > Can anyone confirm this? > > Thank you. > > > -Jurgen > > ___ > Trom mailing list > Trom@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Everyone, Seems this wording needs some clearing up. CREATE: ‘To be known’ and ‘To be not known’: The following have the same meaning and all are the creative postulate, the postulate bringing the effect into existence: - Shall be made known - Shall be made not known - Make known (same as ‘Shall be made known’) - Make not known (same as ‘Shall be made not known’) KNOW: ‘To know’ and ‘To not know’: The following have the same meaning - Shall be known (’To know’) - Shall be not known (’To not know’) This is as far my understanding of English goes, the confusion might be about: - ‘Shall be made’ - ‘Shall be’ So yes, the word ‘made’ for me changes the meaning, it is the difference between CREATE and KNOW. -Jurgen From: Aarre Peltomaa Sent: February 15, 2013 7:06 To: The Resolution of Mind list Subject: Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Jurgen, I agree that the word 'made' seems superfluous, and could be left out; however, I don't think that it changes the meaning. Is this really important ? Aarre Peltomaa On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jurgen Kluft wrote: * The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1.The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2.The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3.The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4.The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELFOTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know.Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Not really. Von: Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 15. Februar 2013 00:07 An: The Resolution of Mind list Betreff: Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Jurgen, I agree that the word 'made' seems superfluous, and could be left out; however, I don't think that it changes the meaning. Is this really important ? Aarre Peltomaa On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jurgen Kluft wrote: * The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Jurgen, You are correct, this should be corrected by removing the word "made". I disagree that "errors" should be merely collected and the text be left in an erroneous state. This is clearly incorrect and if not corrected can add a confusion for the reader. Especially when it has to do with the most fundamental aspect of TROM. Brian _ From: Jurgen Kluft [mailto:jurgen_t...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:23 PM To: The Resolution of Mind list Subject: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Yes if IS important The twin postulate structure if left as written is incorrectly saying: Make not known and Make not known when it should be conveying the concept: Make not known and not know. Thus it is not trivial - it does change the meaning. If you read and grasp this section of the manual we are discussing you will see that (or should and if not persist until you do see :) ) Brian _ From: Aarre Peltomaa [mailto:peltomaa.aa...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 6:07 PM To: The Resolution of Mind list Subject: Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Jurgen, I agree that the word 'made' seems superfluous, and could be left out; however, I don't think that it changes the meaning. Is this really important ? Aarre Peltomaa On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Jurgen Kluft wrote: * The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake
* The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Thank you for confirming this for me Brian. Jurgen From: t...@equityboost.com To: trom@lists.newciv.org Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 18:24:12 -0500 Subject: Re: [TROM1] Manual: mistake * The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org Jurgen, You are correct, this should be corrected by removing the word "made". I disagree that "errors" should be merely collected and the text be left in an erroneous state. This is clearly incorrect and if not corrected can add a confusion for the reader. Especially when it has to do with the most fundamental aspect of TROM. Brian _ From: Jurgen Kluft [mailto:jurgen_t...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:23 PM To: The Resolution of Mind list Subject: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen Jurgen, You are correct, this should be corrected by removing the word "made". I disagree that "errors" should be merely collected and the text be left in an erroneous state. This is clearly incorrect and if not corrected can add a confusion for the reader. Especially when it has to do with the most fundamental aspect of TROM. Brian From: Jurgen Kluft [mailto:jurgen_t...@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:23 PM To: The Resolution of Mind list Subject: [TROM1] Manual: mistake Hi Trommers, I am reading the manual again ( 😊 again) and on every sentence I let the whole thing sink in. When doing this I came to a possible error and I would like to raise this point in the manual that, I think, is a (quite serious) mistake. It is about a passage in the Chapter ‘Theory’: “ The four basic actions of life each have a twin postulate structure: 1. The postulate bringing the effect into existence, and the postulate that it shall be known. 2. The postulate taking the effect out of existence, and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. 3. The postulate to know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made known. 4. The postulate to not-know the effect and the postulate that it shall be made not-known. “ The 2nd statement at the end states ‘that it shall be made not-known’. It is of my understanding that the word ‘made’ should be removed. Bringing something into existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made known’ or ‘make known’. Taking something out of existence equals the postulate ‘shall be made not known’ or ‘make not known’. We can thus abbreviate the above four points: 1. Make known - Know 2. Make not known - Not know 3. Know - Make known (1. from Other) 4. Not know - Make not known (2. from Other) And that is correct according to the next bullet list in the manual: “ SELF OTHERS 1. Make known. 2. Make not-known 3. Know. 4. Not-know. Know. Not-know. Make known. Make not-known. “ Can anyone confirm this? Thank you. -Jurgen ___ Trom mailing list Trom@lists.newciv.org http:
