RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
I’d say what’s that got to do with anything? Iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently if i tell you that the following activity Iz* an eschatological event, what would you say(?) * :-) l, g On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:10:05 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "..confess y/our sins to each other and pray for each other so that [we] may be healed.."
RE: **Possible_Spam** Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
g, how do you know this? Iz -Original Message- Gen Franks --keep in mind, neither of these men are Christians
RE: [TruthTalk]speeding is not sin?
Slade, What if the “authority” is an evildoer who punishes tortures the righteous, like Saddam Hussein? Izzy Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers
RE: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
Chris the Anarchist, You are the perfect example of why God included exhortation in His Word to obey the civil authority. I happen to know a speeder who did NOT get a ticket—but went to jail instead (perhaps you would like that better?). And if you ever worked in the ICU, trying to patch accident victims, you would know why speed limits are necessary. My husband and I have personally, in the past year, been the victim of someone (our taxi driver) who thought no one was coming at the red stop light—WRONG!!! This was the worst way to extend our trip to San Juan… Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of little children of Jesus Christ Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin? \o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ Greetings Slade in the Matchless Name of YahShua !! I dug this one out of my archives that someone submitted on another list about four years ago ... (1st) Going over the posted speed limit is not necessarily breaking any 'law'. 'Speeding' is simply an 'infraction' of the code of the state. That is, if one makes the decision to go over the posted limit that person makes a choice willingly, if caught by the police, to pay dues or fines for the infraction of a contract. The infraction of the contract, is the one when he takes a state issued drivers license he agrees to abid by the code of said state, and by extension the code of another state in which he wishes to travel. So speeding is the breaking of a contract and getting caught, the penality is a fine. (2nd) A speed limit in and of itself is an unjust tax. That is a tax upon ones time. In effect it is an act of theft. (3rd) In order for there to be a 'law' against something there needs to be an injured party or should be at least. The state can not be an injured party in such an act, only as it is breaking the aforementioned contract. Same way as when one comes to a red light in the middle of the night out on the open road and no other vehicles in sight for as far as one can see. Please find me the victim or injured party for stoping and then proceeding through the light. The only victim is the one that sits and waits for the green light (a slave or one in servitude if you will) it is an undue tax upon their time, another act of theft. (4th) There is no reason to enter into the contract mentioned above, as freedom of travel is a right not a privilage. Only in a police state would one be denied the freedom of travel. This idea that driving is a privilage can only come from people being dumbed down in our public education system. Ya see the legal definition of a license grants permision to one to do that which would otherwise be unlawful. Traveling the last time I knew was not something that is unlawful. Neither is the owning of property to do so and than using it for said purpose. Ahava b' YahShua (Love in The SAVIOUR) Baruch YHVH, Chris - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04/01/2003 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin? Oops, I forgot about this part... Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God. Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the King (1 Kefa/Peter 2:13-17) -- slade - Original Message - From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 01 April, 2003 22:12 Subject: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin? For those of you who think you can speed and not be committing sin, read the following. Remember, just because an enforcer of the law does not tag you when you just barely break a law, doesn’t mean it's not breaking the law. You still break the law and you offend the Most High God in the process. Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and God establishes those who exist. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not causes of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wr
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
Evidently it is. There are Christian churches there, something like 400,000 Christians, including Tariq Aziz (spelling?) Terry - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently DAVEH: Is it legal for an Iraqi citizen to be a Christian??? Terry Clifton wrote: G:This is a no brainer. We are to obey those in authorrity over us, unless to obey them would mean disobeying God. The only way I would be in that country would be as a soldier, under authority. Since Saddam hates the true God, any order he gave would be in conflict with the Lord's will. If I were a Christian Iraq citizen, I would try, as far as was possible, to live peacably with all men. This would include obeying traffic laws.Terry--~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
Try to keep in mind that you are talking to a befuddled old man who has very little formal education. What,exactly, is the difference between the spirit and the letter? I assume that the letter would mean as written. Does the spirit mean as supposed, or as guessed at, or as more spiritual people than me understand it, or what? If the law, as written, says X, can we assume that the spirit of the law means X minus, or X plus, or even Y? Terry - Original Message - From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 5:36 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently > Terry wrote: > > Jesus and His disciples were Jews, still under > > the law at the time. To break the law would be > > sin, yet Jesus never sinned. The only explanation, > > therefore is that the Jewish leaders did not understand > > what keeping the sabbath entailed. Jesus knew the law. > > They did not. > > Hi Terry. > > Previously you said that not to obey authorities would be a sin. Then > you said that the only exception would be if we had to obey God rather > than man. This is what led to me bringing up this passage in Matthew > 12. Do you now see that "obeying God rather than man" is not the only > exception to the teaching of the law to be subject to those in > authority? Do you now see that one might disobey the law of authorities > and yet not sin, even if it was for something as carnal as eating? > > I agree with you that Jesus knew the law, but more importantly, Jesus > followed the spirit of the law and not the letter. May we who believe > in him follow his example and inherit his wisdom. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk]speeding is not sin?
Count it all joy? Do not hit the REPLY button when responding to this email. Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] directly. My hotmail account is used exclusively for out-going email. Thank you. - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 02 April, 2003 06:13 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]speeding is not sin? Slade, What if the authority is an evildoer who punishes tortures the righteous, like Saddam Hussein? Izzy Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
If being a liar is enough to disqualify you from being considered a Christian, then T. Aziz is NOT one. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 7:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently Evidently it is. There are Christian churches there, something like 400,000 Christians, including Tariq Aziz (spelling?) Terry - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently DAVEH: Is it legal for an Iraqi citizen to be a Christian??? Terry Clifton wrote: G:This is a no brainer. We are to obey those in authorrity over us, unless to obey them would mean disobeying God. The only way I would be in that country would be as a soldier, under authority. Since Saddam hates the true God, any order he gave would be in conflict with the Lord's will. If I were a Christian Iraq citizen, I would try, as far as was possible, to live peacably with all men. This would include obeying traffic laws.Terry-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 06:11:46 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: g, how do you know this? Iz -Original Message- Gen Franks --keep in mind, neither of these men are Christians conjecture/stuff i might be readg e.g.: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0213/p01s03-woiq.html http://tommyfranks.newstrove.com/ http://www.usembassy.uz/centcom/frankbio.htm http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/franks.wife/
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
Perry wrote: > Then, lets suppose that this same Christian lusts > for a woman in his heart, or commits some other act > that the scripture identifies as sin. Does that mean > that this person was/is not really a Christian? What do you mean by the word Christian? Do you mean someone who follows Christ, or do you mean someone who has membership in a Christian church? If you mean someone who has joined a church and is part of the Christian religion, then yes, he is still a Christian, but if you mean someone who follows Christ, then the answer is no, he is not following Christ when he sins because Jesus Christ does not sin. A person who sins is following the Devil, because the Devil sins. Someone who is following Christ does not continue to sin because Christ does not sin. If he finds that he does sin, he is stepping out of fellowship with Christ. He needs to confess his sin, repent, be healed and be restored to fellowship with Christ. He has an advocate with God, Jesus Christ, but he should not think that he is in fellowship with God while he continues to sin. Sin breaks off fellowship with God, and everyone who has had fellowship with God and then sins knows this very well in their spirit. That's what the doctrine of repentance is all about, forsaking sin that we might have fellowship with God. If all future sins were acceptable, or if all future sins were somehow automatically "covered," then there would be no need to confess sin, repent of sin, and no need for restoration. This does not mean that a disciple of Christ who has fallen into sin is eternally damned because of that one sin. There is mercy and forgiveness at the throne room of God. We have to consider our election and calling, and the idea of family. God is greater than our hearts, so while we experience a break in fellowship, he is active in restoring that fellowship. He treats us as children and chastises us, correcting us, bringing us back into proper relationship with him. So in that sense, our status of being his child is not broken by a single sin. Nevertheless, unless we repent, our sin will multiply (Jesus said that whoever sins is a servant of sin), and our status as his child can be broken, for so it is taught in the Torah (see Deut. 21:18-22). Perry wrote: > Is his eternal fate after he sinned, but > before he confessed, different than his > eternal fate had he died before he sinned? No. I don't believe that eternal fate is judged based upon a person lusting with his eyes for a single moment in time. What I do know is that those called to eternal life can expect to have victory over all such temptation. Those who sin like this have a deeper problem, something in their heart, that they have not surrendered to Jesus Christ. Most likely this was not their first and only sin. They may justify themselves all they like by comparing themselves to other Christians that they know, but the only comparison they should be making is how they compare to Jesus Christ. If they are not like Jesus Christ, then they are not abiding in the doctrine of Christ. The Devil sins, and those who sin are following the Devil. Those who walk in righteousness are following Christ and they are as righteous as Jesus is. Perry wrote: > Again, lets suppose that we have one who has been > a Christian for only 3 weeks, and commits a similar > sin. Is this any different than a one who has been > a Christian for 30 years and commits the same sin? No. Righteousness is something imparted to us from Christ, not something we manufacture over 30 years of being a Christian. In Christ, I'm just as righteous now as I was 30 years ago, and if I were to sin, it would have the same effect upon my life. It would break my spiritual fellowship with my father. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
Glenn wrote: > I don't see where the Apostle John claimed > to be perfect, you do so claim. You know that I do not claim to be perfect. That is for God to judge. I teach only the same thing that the apostle John taught. I learned it from reading his letter. What have I taught that John did not? Have you ever heard me say, "I am perfect"? This is a false accusation that hinders the hearing of God's Word concerning sin in the life of a believer. Glenn wrote: > There is a vast difference in my mind in > "continuing in sin" and committing a single > sin in a moment of weakness. I can accept that. Nevertheless, I also hope you understand that one sin defiles a person and leads to being a servant of sin. Let us not sin, not even one time. "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, LET IT NOT BE ONCE NAMED AMONG YOU, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them." (Eph 5:3-7) Glenn wrote: > The Greek makes a difference. We've already covered this long ago. The Greek does not make any difference in 1 John 5:18. It says, "sins not" in the present tense indicative mood. To say that the Greek here implies "habitual sin" is a lie from the Devil. The passage in 1 John 3:9 adds the word "poiea" which MIGHT be interpreted to mean repeated action, such as "practicing" or "habitually continuing." Furthermore, 1 John 3:6 uses the present active participle form of the verb sin, which indicates repeated action, in saying, "whosoever continues sinning hath not seen him, neither known him." Even if we took this interpretation, it does not mean that those in Christ will always sin. All this does is open up the idea that a person might sin once and not be contradicting this passage. Even so, if we consider all the passages written, such as 1 John 5:18, and especially the entire letter as a whole, it is clear that the expectation is that the new creature in Christ should not sin even one time. He is to be like Christ in the world, free of the entanglement of sin. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Unless you think Jesus sinned, then this means we should walk without sinning. 1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because AS HE IS, SO ARE WE IN THIS WORLD. Again, unless you think Jesus sinned once in awhile, this means that we are just like Jesus when we follow him. 1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Glenn wrote: > Sometimes we unintentionally proof text the > verses we want to use to make a point and > ignore the others. It's like one person said, > no matter what verse they give, one can explain > what it doesn't mean or explain away the plain > common sense meaning. I know. I think you do this all the time, especially with John's letter. I sincerely believe that I do not ignore any verses. I take the plain, common sense meaning of the passage, even if it is difficult to believe. Glenn wrote: > I also think you have lowered the sin > standard in order to be perfect. How have I done that? Is it because I make a distinction between temptation and sin? What sin do I think is acceptable that you do not think is acceptable? Please show me how I have lowered the standard of sin. Glenn wrote: > It is never OK to sin. Glad to see that we agree on this. Now if you can just see that Jesus is powerful enough to keep you from sinning, we will be getting somewhere. :-) Glenn wrote: > I'm sorry you feel I am picking on you. But it does seem > to me you are not coming clean. For example, you don't > have to admit you have exceeded the speed limit. All > drivers have exceeded the speed limit. To me this was > a mind game. Maybe you didn't understand my point. When Jesus taught the Word of God, some people sought to kill him. When people don't like the Word of God being taught, they attack the messenger. I was just trying to point out that I was not the subject. With regard to the discussion, it does not matter whether I have been speeding or whether I am imperfect or whether I am a sinner going to hell. The subject was whether or not this civil infraction was a sin in God's eyes. It bothers me that you think I am playing some kind of game. A street preacher said he felt that way too concerning my posts on TruthTalk. Sin is not a game with me. It is deadly, which is why I speak like I do. From my perspective, those who think this is some kind of intellectual mind game simply do not understand th
RE: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
Slade wrote: > For those of you who think you can speed and not > be committing sin, read the following (Romans 13). I'm not sure if you are directing this toward me or not, but I'm responding because I feel that I might not be understood on this subject. This speeding subject is a very good one to help us distinguish between "the written word / being legalistic" and "the living word / being led of the Spirit." I hope you make an effort to grasp what I am teaching on this subject. First, we must understand that most traffic violations are not crimes. They are civil infractions. It would be illegal for the authorities to punish you with incarceration or other penalties that are used for crimes. A fine is the most that can be imposed. Ask yourself why our authorities do not consider it a crime. Note that some traffic violations are crimes, such as "reckless driving," but simply exceeding the speed limit is not a crime, unless it endangers someone when you are doing it. Second, try to see the relationship between sin and crime. Sin is something that damages someone else, either your neighbor or God. For example, sins are things like stealing, murder, adultery, idolatry, taking the Lord's name in vain. Civil crimes are generally those actions which damage your neighbor or yourself. In our society, we don't have crimes against God much anymore. Therefore, crimes are things like stealing and murder. Are you starting to see the overlap here? Third, I believe that the traffic laws need to be followed. They maintain order in our society and prevent sin. They prevent damage from happening. For example, if someone runs their car into another person's car, they have sinned against that person. Stop signs, traffic lights, and speed limits help prevent these sins from happening. I do not own a radar detector, nor do I exceed the speed limit because nobody is getting hurt by it. I accept whatever the rules that the authorities have put into place, and I submit myself to these rules. Fourth, understand that there are exceptions to speeding laws. If you were bringing someone to the hospital in an emergency, and a policeman pulled you over, he would not write you a speeding ticket. He would give you a police escort and help you speed safely to the hospital. The fact that such exceptions exist tells you that the laws are not precise enough to define true righteousness in every situation. Police exercise a certain level of judgment when they enforce traffic rules, because the rules are meant to promote safety. The goal of what the rules are meant to accomplish is what is in sight, not the idea that the rule must be followed at all costs. A legalist might think it immaterial that police officers exercise some level of judgment, but I think his mind is in the wrong place if that is the case. He is like the Pharisees always accusing Jesus and not being able to judge righteous judgment. We ought to be able to see the overall good and right in any situation and not be dependent upon written rules and regulations. I'm not saying that written laws are not needed, but they only serve as a guideline to help us find our way, until we are able to make good judgments ourselves about right and wrong. Some people in this category may find themselves being put in positions of authority to create these laws themselves, as part of our legislature. The point that I was trying to make before was that only a legalist would call it a sin for someone to slip over the speed limit accidentally for a few seconds. Why? Because he is concerned with what is written and abiding by what is written. Clearly, the traffic law has been violated if we take this perspective. I brought up Matthew 12 to show how Jesus's apostles also violated laws in this technical way, but Jesus said that the Torah scholars who pointed this out had condemned the guiltless. Therefore, Jesus reveals to us a righteousness that is greater than the Torah. It is this kind of righteousness that we need to grab a hold of, because it is what distinguishes the righteousness that comes through Christ from the righteousness that comes from observing Torah. This kind of righteousness is scary to some people, because it sounds "liberal," but when we find that the righteousness that comes through Christ exceeds the righteousness of the letter of the law, and that those who are righteous through Christ fulfill the righteousness that the law points to, then we become confident that this is not some fake righteousness, but righteousness in deed and in truth. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send
Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
Just for clarification. I was told by a policeman that is is against the law for an ambulance to speed or run a red light. They are required to follow the same laws as anyone else. Fourth, understand that there are exceptions to speeding laws. If you were bringing someone to the hospital in an emergency, and a policeman pulled you over, he would not write you a speeding ticket. He would give you a police escort and help you speed safely to the hospital.
RE: **Possible_Spam** Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
So, he’s kicking the devil’s butt—sounds like a good Christian to me! Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 9:57 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 06:11:46 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: g, how do you know this? Iz -Original Message- Gen Franks --keep in mind, neither of these men are Christians conjecture/stuff i might be readg e.g.: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0213/p01s03-woiq.html http://tommyfranks.newstrove.com/ http://www.usembassy.uz/centcom/frankbio.htm http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/franks.wife/
[TruthTalk] French desecrate graves of US military
Read how the French have desecrated graves of US military liberators, and hope for a victory by Saddam Hussein: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2907701.stm. Izzy
[TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
This sounds great. Click here: ServantEvangelism.com
Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
you believe in 'kicking butt'--eh? On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 16:28:44 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: So, he’s kicking the devil’s butt—sounds like a good Christian to me! Izzy
Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Everyone Has Sinned Inadvertently
If I remember correctly, God made a covenant with a gentile named Abram that promised a blessing to ALL nations. I do not understand your thinking. Salvation has come to the Gentiles. The stone rejected by the builders has become my cornerstone. Terry On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 00:37:48 -0600 "Slade Henson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: If you are in covenant with the Almighty, you are not a Gentile. IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 02 April, 2003 19:39 Subject: [TruthTalk] Check out ServantEvangelism.com This sounds great.Click here: ServantEvangelism.com Slade Says: I looked at the website supplied by Glenn and they have all sort of gimmicks you can have your logo plastered on... cups, mouse pads, urinal screens... you name it! If TruthTalk wants to do something like that, I'd like to me the first to supply a possible logo... Well, what do you all think?? (I think the color needs to be different, though, but this was scaped together in about five minutes. -- slade <>
Re: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin?
- Original Message -From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, 02 April, 2003 12:20Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Speeding is not sin? david is in black slade is in Torah blue > > For those of you who think you can speed and not> > be committing sin, read the following (Romans 13).>> I'm not sure if you are directing this toward me or not, but I'm> responding because I feel that I might not be understood on this> subject. I actually directed this toward anyone who wants to ignore the ordinances set down by the leaders of their nation/state/county/city. If you speed intentionally, it's directed at you. When I speed intentionally, it's directed at me. However, lower in your email you profess that you do not speed -- therefore it does not apply to you.I generally use "speeding" as a picture of how a simple, innocuous deed is truly sin in the eyes of YAH, even though the law enforcement officers will not pull you over and cite you with a fine until it's excessive. Our God's eyes are ever roaming and every deed and word is subject to answer in the hereafter. > This speeding subject is a very good one to help us distinguish between> "the written word / being legalistic" and "the living word / being led> of the Spirit." I hope you make an effort to grasp what I am teaching> on this subject.It seems you are confusing terms. Manmade laws created by governments to rule over their subjects are laws we must do according to Scripture. In two previous emails I gave two passages in the New Testament to prove that point. Manmade rules created by the Religious Intelligencia that are given the same credence as Scripture, on the other hand, are a completely different monster. These rules created by the Pharisaic and the Sadducee Intelligencia that contradicted or hamstrung Scripture are the laws Yeshua fought against. That's why he made the comment, "Shabbat was made for Man," and "These things you should do, but you forgot the weightier things of the Law like Grace and Mercy." He was not referring to the laws of Caesar.> First, we must understand that most traffic violations are not crimes.> They are civil infractions. It would be illegal for the authorities to> punish you with incarceration or other penalties that are used for> crimes. A fine is the most that can be imposed. Ask yourself why our> authorities do not consider it a crime. Note that some traffic> violations are crimes, such as "reckless driving," but simply exceeding> the speed limit is not a crime, unless it endangers someone when you are> doing it.I don't intend to be rude, but so what? It's a matter of semantics. Would you believe if I told you "It was a simple affair... it's not like it was adultery or anything?" I wouldn't buy it either, and I can't buy your argument (similar to the one Chris "dug from his archives that someone submitted to another list about four years ago") for the same reason.By the way, when you exceed the speed limit someone is harmed... you, because you are allowing sin to enter your life and that is interfering with your communion with the Almighty.> Second, try to see the relationship between sin and crime. Sin is> something that damages someone else, either your neighbor or God. For> example, sins are things like stealing, murder, adultery, idolatry,> taking the Lord's name in vain. Civil crimes are generally those> actions which damage your neighbor or yourself. In our society, we> don't have crimes against God much anymore. Therefore, crimes are> things like stealing and murder. Are you starting to see the overlap> here?Civil crime is not the issue here. I am trying to keep the focus on how YHVH sees things. The issue is sin in the eyes of our Almighty God, and again, you are mixing terms and needlessly confusing the issue. If you want to discuss damages and the like, Torah has the best list of Torte Laws on the planet, and every nation should adopt them. It would remove the endless court battles, etc.However, you are right. This nation does not have crimes against God any longer because it doesn't believe in Him any longer (nor does it believe Him either), and that's too bad. However, our God has said we must obey our nation's laws otherwise we are sinning before YHVH and He will remember our sins come Judgment Day. Wouldn't it be nice to have a short record? Wouldn't it be a bit less embarrassing?> Third, I believe that the traffic laws need to be followed. They> maintain order in our society and prevent sin. They prevent damage from> happening. For example, if someone runs their car into another person's> car, they have sinned against that person. Stop signs, traffic lights,> and speed limits help prevent these sins from happening. I do not own a> radar detector, nor do I exceed the speed limit because nobody is> getting hurt by it. I accept whatever the rules that the authorities> have put into
