FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations > [Original Message] > From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 1/29/2006 9:08:36 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Date: 1/29/2006 1:01:14 AM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > Judy wrote: > > > What is wrong with the following scenario > > > apart from telling ppl to go to hell which I > > > seriously doubt they say > > > > Rest assured, Judy, that we do not tell people to go to hell. I tell them > > that I am on no better ground than they are. The testimony of Jesus Christ > > is what we bring. > > > > People come under conviction and hear whatever they want to hear. A few > > weeks ago, a girl kept complaining that I had no right to bring my banner to > > her school. I let her vent, but about the fifth time she started describing > > my banner as condemning and horrible, I stopped her and said, "wait a > > minute, look at what the banner says... it says, 'JESUS WILL HEAL YOU'. > > What is so condemning about that?" She was speechless then. She saw what > > she wanted to see through the bigoted stereotype of what she has been > > trained to believe that public preachers are all about. People believe the > > lie so much that they can't see the truth when it is staring them in the > > face. I can understand how some of my banners might be misconstrued, but > > this one is a message of hope. Jesus will heal you. Yet, even that message > > is characterized as condemning and an infringement upon their liberty. They > > should not have to look upon it with their eyes. The same people who talk > > about tolerance talk this way. Amazing. > > cd: Lance I share this in hope you will understand us and those that oppose God and themselves. I have been focusing on WCU for preaching lately and last week I did something different. Normally I stand on a concrete half-moon seat and preach Jesus to a crowd. This trip I decided to go into the crowd by allowing them to gather in a complete circle around me and in front of this mass- that closed tightly around me as it grew- was a young lady who was press with a couple of feet of me and I preached that" Jesus can heal everyone in this crowd if they were willing to turn from sin to him". I had a sandwich that said" Turn From Sin and Truth Jesus" This young lady very angry shouted at me : Why don't you tell people to turn from sin and trust Jesus. I then pointed at the sign on my torso two/three feet away from her and asked her: What are you not getting? I have also explained many, many time (hundreds,thousands?) on the difference between" judging" and "judging harshly" I hand out copied verses on the subject-read verses on the subject-give examples of Judging situations of how one can and cannot Judge. Yet the same people at the end of the day will continue accuse me of Judging because I point out that this type of sinner will go to the lake of fire if they continue doing or promoting this ungodly act. Whether it be Sodomy or Lying or ...etc. The point of this is Satan can and will steal the seed before it abodes in the heart that is why people need to hear the massage often. David is stating the facts to you correctly. Christine is doing, acting ,and speaking correctly.What you should be concerned about is if any negatively stops her from doing God's work or even offends her? > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm not caught up on reading, but I just have to say, Judy, that you are not hearing Bill properly. I don't agree David. Bill wrote: It is rebellion to deny the physical lineage of Christ. He is the second Adam precisely because he is of Adam's blood: through Eve to Seth, and Noah, and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Judah, and David to Jesus through Mary. To deny this is to deny that Christ came in the flesh at all. John tells us that it is anti-Christ to hold and promote such a belief; indeed, it is the spirit of rebellion. None of the above is so. Jesus is not the second Adam for any of the reasons above What's more he did not come to resurrect the old creation. He came to institute a new one. I have never denied that Christ came in the flesh so the above accusation is that of a lying spirit. Also I am weary of constant accusations of heresy. He did answer your question. Many heresies sprang up and those who wrote in the first few centuries after the Biblical writers addressed these heresies. You personally don't understand this because you are not well read in the church fathers. So did Paul, he warned that wolves would spring up in sheep's clothing even from the people he was addressing and that they would get a following. No I have not read the writings of the church fathers extensively but I have read enough to know that they conflict not only with the word of God but with each other - IMO they are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. I am not promoting gnosticism or any other ism. Everything I write can be cross checked in God's Word for those who want to take the time and trouble. Also, the Biblical writers were not negligent about the relationship of Jesus and the incarnation. There is at least as much about that as there is about his Divinity. That is why Christianity divided so much over exactly who Jesus was: God or man. Well... he was BOTH! Duh. I can't accept that he was both in the way that Bill, JD, and others describe. He could not have a fallen Adamic nature and be a fitting sacrifice for sin. How can one born in iniquity atone for same? Why is this so difficult to grasp? Everybody is just describing two sides of the same coin and trying to claim that the other side is lying about what the coin actually looks like. Hold a coin up right now, Judy. Describe its face to yourself. Then have your husband describe the tail side. Do this while you both are looking at the same coin. Do you both describe it the same way? No. Why? You are both looking at different sides. That's what you and Bill are doing in this conversation. They are totally different coins David. One flesh the other spirit. They always lust one against the other. Please TRY to hear what Bill is saying. He is using Bible. Deal with that. I am using Bible also David which fact is totally ignored. David Miller. - Original Message - From: Judy TaylorTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:30 AMSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? Your sweetness once more overflows Bill just like the orthodox fathers.It's a valid question - why not be honest and say you don't have an answer?The text says "for God was WITH him". On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:34:14 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:Why was he so negligent about the sperm of David and the incarnation? Because he was not addressing heretics. BillFrom: Judy Taylor On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:32:56 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:His death was the victory not His life. Why then all the fuss about his human nature? Beats me - You ppl are the ones smaking such a big deal out of his "humanity" and I believe the rcc teaches the sameespecially since one of their fathers came up with the wholly God, wholly man statement. Now we have to adjust alldoctrine to fit that don't we? Lord forbid making Tertullian look like a false prophet even if God's own Word contradicts him. Would it have mattered if he had sinned while living in the flesh? Of course it would. The Christ of Scripture is the whole package, brother: his life, death, and resurrection -- not just a slab of meat hanging on a tree. He is not a package Bill. He is a person - one few of you seem to know personally it appears. Why did Paul tell ppl he ministered to "I determined to know nothing among you but Jesus Christ and Him crucified?" Why was he so negligent about the sperm of David and the incarnation? May I suggest that you purchase and read Gustaf Aulen's Christus Victor? The tyrants were plural, Dean: sin, death, and the devil. Leave one of them out and Christ is not the Victor you imagine. Bill Hate to challenge the good Gustaf .. but the tyrant was the prince of this world and his children. Satan held the keys of death and he has th
Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I don't think you are hearing us properly David. WE/I am saying thatChrist did not appear in our heathren state-He appeared in the state we areafter salvation not before salvation. As a born again believer I have fleshand blood I can choose to sin-but chose not to-I am a spiritual child ofAbraham due to abdoption from the heathen state-I was changed to becomemore Christ like. Jesus did not lower himself to that level to become aheathen. Exactly ... A good example of his separation from sinners and the fallacy of all the "buddy/brethren" talk before the cross (other than the disciples that is) can be seen at the time of the passover in Jerusalem we are told that "many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did" but get this "But Jesus DID NOT commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man; for he knew what was in man" (Jn 2:23-25) But there is also much about His divinity also David.We are not sayinghe wasn't flesh and blood- you seem to think He reduced himself down to thelowest state of sin -where we were. Yet he clearly states that Satan had noclaim on Him. Sure does; what was in man wasn't in Him that's for sure ie: Jesus tells his disciples "Hereafter I will not talk much with you 'for the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me" (Jn 14:30). Obviously he had something in the rest of mankind but NOTHING IN HIM. No Adamic cursed nature to have to overcome and no 'iniquities' of the fathers. Satan had absolutely no ground in him. We don't think you guys are clearly/accuritely describing you side ofthe coin. When we looked at your side we find you are mistaken - Amen; the Romans 5 One for all and all for one formula is also off base. I don't see Jesus praying for the whole world before he becomes one for all. Do you Dean?? So it is not as automatic as your doctrine makes it appear. > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> I'm not caught up on reading, but I just have to say, Judy, that you arenot > hearing Bill properly. He did answer your question. Many heresiessprang > up and those who wrote in the first few centuries after the Biblicalwriters > addressed these heresies. You personally don't understand this becauseyou > are not well read in the church fathers.> Also, the Biblical writers were not negligent about the relationship of > Jesus and the incarnation. There is at least as much about that as thereis > about his Divinity. That is why Christianity divided so much overexactly > who Jesus was: God or man. Well... he was BOTH! Duh.> Everybody is just describing two sides of the same coin and trying toclaim > that the other side is lying about what the coin actually looks like. Hold > a coin up right now, Judy. Describe its face to yourself. Then haveyour > husband describe the tail side. Do this while you both are looking atthe > same coin. Do you both describe it the same way? No. Why? You areboth > looking at different sides. That's what you and Bill are doing in this > conversation. Please TRY to hear what Bill is saying. He is usingBible. > Deal with that> David Miller.>> --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations > [Original Message] > From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > > > [Original Message] > > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > CD wrote: > > > Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional > > > there is no sin involved-similar to a young > > > Christian who hasn't been fully instructed- > > > God looks at the intent. The old saying that > > > "The road to hell is paved by good intentions" > > > is wrong. > > > > I hope you rethink this one Dean. > > > > Leviticus 5:17 > > (17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden > > to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he > > guilty, and shall bear his iniquity. > > > > Ignorance of the law is no excuse. The saying you say is wrong, actually is > > right. :-) This is why the prophet said that God's people are destroyed > > for a lack of knowledge. Good intentions alone does not cut it. > - > > cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David. > > Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. > > cd: Even under the old covenant God provided cities for those who killed without a wrong intent-to allow for a "cooling off period" the killer could return to his home. > Num 35:11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares. cd: What do you consider willful sin? Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, > -- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
- Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 1/31/2006 7:08:09 AM Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>I don't think you are hearing us properly David. WE/I am saying thatChrist did not appear in our heathren state-He appeared in the state we areafter salvation not before salvation. As a born again believer I have fleshand blood I can choose to sin-but chose not to-I am a spiritual child ofAbraham due to abdoption from the heathen state-I was changed to becomemore Christ like. Jesus did not lower himself to that level to become aheathen. Exactly ... A good example of his separation from sinners and the fallacy of all the "buddy/brethren" talk before the cross (other than the disciples that is) can be seen at the time of the passover in Jerusalem we are told that "many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did" but get this "But Jesus DID NOT commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man; for he knew what was in man" (Jn 2:23-25) But there is also much about His divinity also David.We are not sayinghe wasn't flesh and blood- you seem to think He reduced himself down to thelowest state of sin -where we were. Yet he clearly states that Satan had noclaim on Him. Sure does; what was in man wasn't in Him that's for sure ie: Jesus tells his disciples "Hereafter I will not talk much with you 'for the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me" (Jn 14:30). Obviously he had something in the rest of mankind but NOTHING IN HIM. No Adamic cursed nature to have to overcome and no 'iniquities' of the fathers. Satan had absolutely no ground in him. We don't think you guys are clearly/accuritely describing you side ofthe coin. When we looked at your side we find you are mistaken - Amen; the Romans 5 One for all and all for one formula is also off base. I don't see Jesus praying for the whole world before he becomes one for all. Do you Dean?? So it is not as automatic as your doctrine makes it appear. cd: No -Judy I also do not. I am beginning to suspect that someone has stolen our words so that these guys cannot hear what we are actually saying as they cannot get past the flesh and blood issue and deal with the two different states of man no matter how many times we say we know Christ was flesh and blood as we are. I see the same thing at WCU. Pray for them is all I know to do at this point and keep trying-maybe God will help these poor mislead guys.
Re: FW: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature?
Overcoming is of Divine Intervention and not of personal effort. That we partner in this effort is a given --- but God recieves ALL the credit because it is His work that brings the victory. Rev 2:26 is an indicative, not an imperative !! The correct response to these words (Rev 2:26) , then, is "Praise the Lord" and not "oohhh, I better get busy." jd -- Original message -- From: "Dean Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Rev.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him > will I give power over the nations > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > To: > > Date: 2/3/2006 9:41:14 PM > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > To: > > > Date: 2/2/2006 4:28:41 PM > > > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Was Jesus of God's Nature? > > > > > > CD wrote: > > > > Sin is intentional-if the act is unintentional > & gt; > > there is no sin involved-similar to a young > > > > Christian who hasn't been fully instructed- > > > > God looks at the intent. The old saying that > > > > "The road to hell is paved by good intentions" > > > > is wrong. > > > > > > I hope you rethink this one Dean. > > > > > > Leviticus 5:17 > > > (17) And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are > forbidden > > > to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet > is he > > > guilty, and shall bear his iniquity. > > > > > > Ignorance of the law is no excuse. The saying you say is wrong, > actually is > > > right. :-) This is why the prophet said that God's people are > destroyed > > > for a lack of knowledge. Good intentions alone does not cut it > > --- -- > > > > cd: God does look at the intent of the heart David. > > > > Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than > any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and > spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts > and intents of the heart. > > > > cd: Even under the old covenant God provided cities for those who killed > without a wrong intent-to allow for a "cooling off period" the killer could > return to his home. > > Num 35:11 Then ye shall appoint you cities to be cities of refuge for > you; that the slayer may flee thither, which killeth any person at unawares. > > cd: What do you consider willful sin? > Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the > knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, > > > > > > > -- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed.
