Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
http://www.freegift.net/ || On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:46:09 -0500 "Carrolll Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: even talk like yer wearin' an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires.. Dean writes: Works the same way out on the street
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
- Original Message - From: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/24/2003 6:15:08 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? http://www.freegift.net/ Should I add "Fear God" to the scrolling marquee:-) I have an Idea-For those that have Bible search tools-punch in "Fear God" and see how many hits you receive in both the OT and The NT. even talk like yer wearin' an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires.. Dean writes: Works the same way out on the street
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy wrote: Yes I hear what you are saying but we should see the Spirit of Christ in action. Of course, including the Spirit of Christ going into the Temple and chasing out those who were defiling it. We should see this same zeal in action. Judy wrote: Judy wrote: What about the side that lays down their life in love. That's the side I believe reaches the sin-sick, lonely, rejected. I've been reading Hubert Lindsey's book and this is how he ministered. He lived among the people, washed the feet of one of his hecklers when challenged and was available by telephone in time of emergency. The students grew to respect him because they knew he was genuine. Well, if you are reading Holy Hubert's book, then you should be able to get the inside scoop about what we are talking about. Hubert was the grandfather of all modern day street preachers. I do not hold a candle next to Hubert. Hubert so angered sinners that he was beat up, stabbed, shot about five different times, imprisoned over 100 times, etc. When the communists held rallies of 35,000 people, Hubert would walk up on the platform, take the microphone without invitation and take over the rally. If he was alive today, I have no doubt he would likewise do so with the homosexual rallies. As for Hubert's heart of love for the sinner, yes, we agree and try to walk in that same spirit. My phone number is always available and often I take inquisitors out to eat or go have private chats with them, or bring them to church, etc. While some students, especially the homosexual, are stirred up with hatred, others see that our love is genuine and respond to it. At the University of South Florida, there was a campus organization started by the students directly as a result of the open air preaching that we did there. I think that indicates positive response. David Miller wrote: When we stand up to that homosexual agenda and declare how harmful homosexuality is to society, we take away this cloak of respectability and reveal homosexuality for what it is from the eyes of a Holy God. Judy wrote: It's much better to hold up the light. That's what Hubert did. He held up God's standard, speaking of normal marriage and God's love between male and female to people on a campus where immorality was fast taking hold. Yes, this is what I mean by saying that we expose homosexuality. We don't just point out the wrong, but we point out how it perverts God's ordained plan of marriage. I generally teach not only on the sanctity of marriage, but on why God created gender to begin with. Of course, I also connect how promiscuous sexual relations and homosexuality violate this order of God. Judy wrote: There is a difference between condemnation and conviction. One is from the enemy and the other is from the Lord. The Scriptures teach that condemnation comes from the law. The devil doesn't condemn anyone, nor does he want to condemn anyone. He has tricked the churches with this false doctrine for many years now. It is repeated and repeated but never examined in the light of Scripture. People relate to it because nobody wants to be condemned. Nobody likes condemnation. Nevertheless, the Bible teaches that without the law, nobody was condemned, yet they still suffered from the penalty of sin, which was death. When the law came, then condemnation came. So condemnation comes not from the enemy, but from the law, and the law comes from God who is not our enemy. Judy wrote: David, all I know is that when I was out there - far away from God - I used to travel to work on a train that went by a billboard with John 3:16 on it and that billboard touched my heart more than any nut out there with a megaphone telling me that I was under condemnation and headed for hell. It would not surprise me if that billboard was put there by Bible Jim Webber or someone like him. They started the John 3:16 banners at the football games and continue to do it, having to evade police each time they do. Also, let me say that I was not reached by such methods, but I have reaped many people who were touched by it. One young man I worked with when I was a teenager believed upon Christ and was baptized. When I spoke to him of Holy Hubert Lindsey, a man I had just met just the year before, he tells me that he heard Hubert preach at a university in Louisiana just the year before. The message prepared the ground so that this young man would believe upon Christ as the Word of God took root in his heart. I could tell you all kinds of stories about how the confrontational approach to evangelism has caused sinners to break down and cry like a baby right there on the spot, and of others who were agitated with questions that caused them to come to Bible Studies. Even the atheists who are not ready to believe, invite us to debate them at their large meetings on campus. I remember going there and they had this huge stack of books ready to
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
How do you two resolve this issue(?) : On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 07:53:48 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Man's freedom of choice (contingency) is God given -- On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:54 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]God's ordained plan of marriage. [--i.e., 'choice/s' are notGod given] gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Gary wrote: How do you two resolve this issue(?) Gary, I did not have time to read the article carefully that you shared, and most of the interaction about it has been confusing. It sounded like maybe you believe that we should be pushing Homosexual Marriage as a good and proper thing to do? Is that YOUR POSITION? If so, please come right out and say so and I would be glad to discuss it. My position is that God has ordained marriage, not man, and man has no authority to change it. To enact homosexual marriage is to elevate man's wisdom above God and to pervert the natural order than he created. The idea for homosexual marriage has been paved with the idea that there are no differences between men and women. That is another lie that we would need to deal with in our discussion. Men and women are different from each other, and this is an important acknowledgment if we are going to understand God's plan for marriage. God's plan for marriage can only exist between a man and a woman. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
DavidMs position seems quitesimilar to Cal Thomas'--he has written on this issue recently, too. FTR, Speaking of confusion on the matter (resulting from the retention of certain biases?), in an 'exegetical' sense, it appears that DavidM and CT bothadd the adjective 'homosexual', as in the case below. May we inquire'Why'? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:54:24 -0500 "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary wrote: How do you two resolve this issue(?)My position is that God has ordained marriage, not man, and man has no authoritytochange it. To enact homosexual marriage is to elevate man's wisdomabove God and to pervert the natural order than he created...
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy wrote: My question to you (and hopefully this will resolve the question) is Does God give man freedom to make his own choices? Yes. Judy wrote: IOW if two homosexuals do choose to marry, would God try to stop them? Strike them dead or whatever? No. But he might strike them dead... later... on judgment day. Judy wrote: Do they have the freedom to make this choice and is this freedom basically God-given. Does God allow people to fail? Yes, of course. Who would argue otherwise? God allows people to choose to sin. Where's the beef? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
David Miller wrote: Judy wrote: Do they have the freedom to make this choice and is this freedom basically God-given. Does God allow people to fail? Yes, of course. Who would argue otherwise? God allows people to choose to sin. DAVEH: Why do Protestants believe God allows men to fail? What is the purpose of allowing failure/sin? Just curious. Where's the beef? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
- Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/23/2003 1:45:28 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? g, the NYTimes and PBS doesnt have the slightest CLUE what a conservative is. They probably think Howard Dean is conservative. By the way, I didnt know you were a homo. Should have known, since you hate Bush so much. (Thats pretty funnyI really didnt intend it that way!) Izzy (At least you arent a watered down Christian like j, who has no hatred of evil, but is really into warm,cozy feelings and understanding sinners. Jesus called it lukewarm. Passions go both ways. Much hatred for evil = much capacity for love. Minus that, we are left with linquini-spined, New Age Christianity.) Dean writes: I think I missed something here-Gary are you a Sodomite/Homo?If not then who is this Homo reference aimed at?
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Rofl!!! Iz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 6:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? From: Carrolll Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: ShieldsFamily g, the NYTimes and PBS doesnt have the slightest CLUE what a conservative is. They probably think Howard Dean is conservative. By the way, I didnt know you were a homo. Should have known, since you hate Bush so much. (Thats pretty funnyI really didnt intend it that way!) Izzy (At least you arent a watered down Christian like j, who has no hatred of evil, but is really into warm,cozy feelings and understanding sinners. Jesus called it lukewarm. Passions go both ways. Much hatred for evil = much capacity for love. Minus that, we are left with linquini-spined, New Age Christianity.) Dean writes: I think I missed something here-Gary are you a Sodomite/Homo?If not then who is this Homo reference aimed at? Judy writes: It is the fruit if Izzy's fertile imagination Dean; she has not yet learned to take thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ. What Gary is or is not is between him and the Lord, our responsibility is to love Him. This list has become kind of like the inquisition and it is not a 'safe place' for anyone to disclose anything other than self-righteousness in Christ's name. Judy
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
even talk like yer wearin'
an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires lol; doesn't this
sort of (moderator originated!!)ad hominem go with
the wardrobe? rof
...remember when they said
JCs got a demon?
The Psalmist had known
about that sorta stuff; said 'roll your [prophetic, eschatological, economic,
etc.] burden on the Lord [who as we've seen, by his behavior/responses to
certain caustic NT people, is quite capable of burnin' and sufferin' along with
his loved ones]'--o yeh--'HE will sustain you' --Abe's 'offspring':)
l, g
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 06:23:42 -0500 "Carrolll Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11/23/2003 1:45:28 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach
to Sodom?
g, the NYTimes and PBS doesnt
have the slightest CLUE what a conservative is. They probably think
Howard Dean is conservative. By the way, I didnt know you were a
homo. Should have known, since you hate Bush so much. (Thats
pretty funnyI really didnt intend it that way!) Izzy (At least you
arent a watered down Christian like j, who has no hatred of evil, but is
really into warm,cozy feelings and understanding sinners. Jesus called it
lukewarm. Passions go both ways. Much hatred for evil = much
capacity for love. Minus that, we are left with linquini-spined, New Age
Christianity.)
Dean writes:
I think I missed something
here-Gary are you a Sodomite/Homo?If not then who is this Homo reference
aimed at?
gary ottoson ::
http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
let me rephrase this,j lol VVV On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:14:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so, what is his [new, subjective,'jandg..'] point [augmented by your redaction of the Ruth/Naomi story]? On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:06:16 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks distorts scripture to try and use it tomake his point .. so yes, that did get lost. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] true--the sense of the scripture in Brooks' article On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:44:56 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Something got lost
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
tell Iz that Brooksis employed by the _NYT_ If he ain't conservative enough to suit her style, maybe she oughta try gettin' a job there herself, on the same editiorial staff with Krugman--he'd eat her lunch if she didn't shoot him with a JDAM first rof * 666!! On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 14:14:13 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: even talk like yer wearin' an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires lol; doesn't this sort of (moderator originated!!)ad hominem go with the wardrobe? rof ...remember when they said JCs got a demon? The Psalmist had known about that sorta stuff; said 'roll your [prophetic, eschatological, economic, etc.] burden on the Lord [who as we've seen, by his behavior/responses to certain caustic NT people, is quite capable of burnin' and sufferin' along with his loved ones]'--o yeh--'HE will sustain you' --Abe's 'offspring':) l, g On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 06:23:42 -0500 "Carrolll Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: - Original Message - From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/23/2003 1:45:28 AM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? g, the NYTimes and PBS doesnt have the slightest CLUE what a conservative is. They probably think Howard Dean is conservative. By the way, I didnt know you were a homo. Should have known, since you hate Bush so much. (Thats pretty funnyI really didnt intend it that way!) Izzy (At least you arent a watered down Christian like j, who has no hatred of evil, but is really into warm,cozy feelings and understanding sinners. Jesus called it lukewarm. Passions go both ways. Much hatred for evil = much capacity for love. Minus that, we are left with linquini-spined, New Age Christianity.) Dean writes: I think I missed something here-Gary are you a Sodomite/Homo?If not then who is this Homo reference aimed at? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
even talk like yer wearin' an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires lol; doesn't this sort of (moderator originated!!)ad hominem go with the wardrobe? rof Dean writes: Works the same way out on the street bro-Trust me- Get one-one must wear it to believe it opens even your eyes and theirs:-) ...remember when they said JCs got a demon? Yes Bro-Good point-how can his divided kingdom stand-right? Glad to hear that. The Psalmist had known about that sorta stuff; said 'roll your [prophetic, eschatological, economic, etc.] burden on the Lord [who as we've seen, by his behavior/responses to certain caustic NT people, is quite capable of burnin' and sufferin' along with his loved ones]'--o yeh--'HE will sustain you' --Abe's 'offspring':) l, g True once those burdens are laid down or at least fought against to the best of one's ability-Rev.3:3 Here is one in sin but fighting-A sinner but holding onto God and saved.But the fighter must be giving his all to the fight-with Godly fear
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
like Daniel, et. al.! , warmin' upfor warin Babylon's furnace On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:46:09 -0500 "Carrolll Moore" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: even talk like yer wearin' an FG t-shirt ,Dean, and look what transpires lol; doesn't this sort of (moderator originated!!)ad hominem go with the wardrobe? rof Dean writes: Works the same way out on the street bro-Trust me- Get one-one must wear it to believe it opens even your eyes and theirs:-) ...remember when they said JCs got a demon? Yes Bro-Good point-how can his divided kingdom stand-right? Glad to hear that. The Psalmist had known about that sorta stuff; said 'roll your [prophetic, eschatological, economic, etc.] burden on the Lord [who as we've seen, by his behavior/responses to certain caustic NT people, is quite capable of burnin' and sufferin' along with his loved ones]'--o yeh--'HE will sustain you' --Abe's 'offspring':) l, g True once those burdens are laid down or at least fought against to the best of one's ability-Rev.3:3 Here is one in sin but fighting-A sinner but holding onto God and saved.But the fighter must be giving his all to the fight-with Godly fear gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:15:33 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary, ..Have you read the Ruth/Naomi story? (humbly:) if youwanna pursuethe R/N story intelligently (andstart examing where Brooks is comin' from), my sem OT mentor, Robt. Hubbard, who knows me well, and that I'm straight as an arrow:),has produced what is generally acclaimed as thefinest commentary of the 20th c.on 'Ruth'--accolades attendhis workfrom a variety of critical readers/schools of thought I believe him; and, know his interpetation of R/N is worthy of the cudos people give it at the core of the issue hereis that, despite certain counter-cultural comments you make, your posts indicate that youtreasure (by 'choice')your very ownIzzy-strict culture (as she does her own),above mutually discovering the discernable truth about it maybe you're reluctant to do that--that's cool, buti thinkit paysoff earlyto 'inquire within' :)
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 19:03:13 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: jt: Within where? Gary...My belief is that the scriptures are spiritually discerned rather than intellectual within both realms, J; i.e., it's biblically a 'both/and' situation; e.g.,is your 'belief' intellectually viable? how so? Are you saying that your OT mentor agreed with Mr. Brooks ?? he's not a political conservative per se, but he mayperceive (like i do) thatDBs opinion/s eminatingfrom the NYTstaffis a rather interesting political paradigm; (i'll) check the upcoming NYTdailies (too)--maybe Dr Hubbard'll write (us)a response to DBs article why don't you write one?
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy wrote: From what I see around me I think that teaching is necessary but not to the exclusion of the other. Very true, but I hope you also realize that the other is limited by the hearts of the hearers. Take Gary's position toward me, for example. He views me as a false prophet and as a pretender. As long as his heart is set toward rejecting me, I could never bring any kind of ministry of deliverance or healing around him. Do you understand this principle? Judy wrote: ... but we should see the Spirit of Christ in action. The scriptures I read about the end time activity of Elijah was that of restoring the hearts of the fathers to the children. They (homosexuals) are already under a curse, we don't need to condemn them any further. But the hearts of the children have turned away from the hearts of the fathers in that they view homosexuality as normal as being black or Asian. To turn the hearts back to the correct viewpoint requires declaring the truth in opposition to their new philosophy. I might add that I do not view the Elijah Spirit to be in opposition to Christ. It is simply a side of Christ that comes into view more predominately as men turn to sin. The side of Christ ruling with a rod of iron is the Elijah spirit, but the side of Christ riding lowly upon a donkey is his side when he is accepted and praised as he ought to be. Judy wrote: I don't know about a cloak - their sin is public and flagrant. But their sin is represented as being no sin at all. In fact, not only is it no longer a crime to commit homosexual abominations, but laws are being passed that give the practice of homosexuality special rights and protection. This is what I mean by taking away their cloak for sin. Their cloak does not hide the fact that the sin exists, but it sugar coats it so that the unsuspecting public is deceived into thinking that homosexuality is normal, that people are born that way just as a person might be born with certain color eyes or hair. When we stand up to that homosexual agenda and declare how harmful homosexuality is to society, we take away this cloak of respectability and reveal homosexuality for what it is from the eyes of a Holy God. Judy wrote: there is a difference between condemnation and conviction. One is from the enemy and the other is from the Lord. I was taught this in the churches as well, but I think the Bible gives more than enough teaching to question this assumption. While there is an element of truth to the idea that the finger of conviction leads to repentance and good work while the hand of condemnation might lead to sorrowful depression and death, we should not shy away from ministry of the law simply because people become condemned. Second Corinthians 3:9 describes the ministry of the law as being a ministry of condemnation, not the ministry of conviction. Romans 4:15 says that the law works wrath. In the seventh chapter of Romans, Paul gets in the particulars of how the law works out its condemnation, and in the course of that, he clearly points out that the condemnation that comes from the law leads us to understand that the law is holy and good. It is the sin within man that is bad and has to go. Not the law. Therefore, when we see the ministry of condemnation that comes through ministering the law, we should not declare that such condemnation is evidence of this ministry being contrary to Christ. Rather, we should agree with the declarations of the law and show our support, allowing the resulting condemnation to lead people to repentance and to faith in Jesus Christ. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. (Romans 7:9-13 KJV) Judy wrote: Since these people are strangers to the covenants of grace and many have not known love at all in their lives, I just believe Jesus' approach to be best and I like what Isaiah prophesied about Him: Behold my servant, whom I uphold, mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth. I have put my spirit upon him, he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench; he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged till he have set judgment in the earth, and the isles shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:2,3,4) What I am concerned that you do not grasp is that idea that Jesus could have done none of this kind of ministry except that there was
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Dave Miller: The Pagan Wolf is drawing you into his circle. This is the standard tactic of the enemy. He first gets you to side with him against those who proclaim Christ on the streets. He causes you to believe that public preaching is for the most part a flesh ministry. He causes you to believe that he is a victim of circumstance, that he was born into a pagan family, so that is what he is. You think that if only he saw the peace and love in Christ he would come over, but the truth is that his sin is what separates him from God. The church is not some club that everyone is invited to join. The church is made up of holy ones, and only those who are willing to lose their lives are able to join. Most people won't make the cut, and Pagan Wolf is one of them, UNLESS, he repudiates his sinful and occult practices and repents of his sin. He can't do that until he first acknowledges them to be evil. Right now, he sees his vile ways as good. TPW: Dave, again you give me way too much credit. I already told you that such remarks towards my person were unbecoming of you and I will say it again. Unless you come to truly know my heart, then do yourself a favor and keep your own counsel on what I am and not capable of. Before you declare me the Lucifer's own, look at yourself and ask if you are any better with putting me on a pedestal of onyx, and declaring anyone who remotely agrees with me my bondsman. You really need to look within and see your own ego at work, or as some of you call it The old man, the flesh. I don't need to be your enemy. You are your own worse enemy. And furthermore, Judy is an adult, not a child. She is a devoted Christian and a strong one. I seriously doubt she accepts my Pagan ways nor I ask her to accept them. I merely asked something from her and she gave it in spades. She respected me as a Human being. Shame you couldn't see it that way. But then from what I saw written by you so far, you need to be reminded of this... Proverbs 26:26 Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation I warn you Dave, I don't you by my standard. I am seeing however you have problems with your own. Judy wrote: Hey there is no future tense about it. By his own testimony TPW is already there and his evaluation isn't far off. Dave Miller: Is this true, Pagan Wolf? Are you convinced that you stand lost and condemned before God Almighty? Do you desire Jesus Christ to save you from your sins? TPW: No David I do not. For you see if that were to occur, The fruit I would become would be a rotten one. Under your rule, I couldn't be nothing more than that. As for feeling lost. I don't think I could ever feel lost. The thing is I have been blessed with a strong sense of self-identity. I know who stares back at me when I see my own reflection. More importantly, I focus on my own strenghts alot. So technically no matter where I am, I know I can call upon my own ressources. Can you say the same? Are you confidant enough to say, no matter how much the world throws at me, I will make the most of what I find. We were all born with a handfull of cards, so few actually bother to take the time to see what we were dealt and learn to play with them... TPW _ Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
g version: On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:26:14 + "Arsene Lupin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [DavidM],certain remarks [indirected]towards my person [are] unbecoming of you..You really need to look[to the Lord] and see your own ego at work, or as[Scriptures] call it "The old man, the flesh". I don't need to be [your enemy]. You are your own worse enemy[!!]
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:25:02 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They (homosexuals) are already under a curse, we don't need to condemn them any further. fyi~g: The Power of MarriageNovember 22, 2003By DAVID BROOKSAnybody who has several sexual partners in a year iscommitting spiritual suicide. He or she is ripping the veilfrom all that is private and delicate in oneself, andpulverizing it in an assembly line of selfish sensations. But marriage is the opposite. Marriage joins two people ina sacred bond. It demands that they make an exclusivecommitment to each other and thereby takes two discreteindividuals and turns them into kin. Few of us work as hard at the vocation of marriage as weshould. But marriage makes us better than we deserve to be.Even in the chores of daily life, married couples findthemselves, over the years, coming closer together, fusinginto one flesh. Married people who remain committed to eachother find that they reorganize and deepen each other'slives. They may eventually come to the point when they cansay to each other: "Love you? I am you." Today marriage is in crisis. Nearly half of all marriagesend in divorce. Worse, in some circles, marriage is noteven expected. Men and women shack up for a while, producechildren and then float off to shack up with someone else. Marriage is in crisis because marriage, which relies on aculture of fidelity, is now asked to survive in a cultureof contingency. Today, individual choice is held up as thehighest value: choice of lifestyles, choice of identities,choice of cellphone rate plans. Freedom is a wonderfulthing, but the culture of contingency means that themarriage bond, which is supposed to be a sacred vow tilldeath do us part, is now more likely to be seen as aneasily canceled contract. Men are more likely to want to trade up, when a youngertrophy wife comes along. Men and women are quicker to optout of marriages, even marriages that are not fatallyflawed, when their "needs" don't seem to be met at thatmoment. Still, even in this time of crisis, every human being inthe United States has the chance to move from the path ofcontingency to the path of marital fidelity - excepthomosexuals. Gays and lesbians are banned from marriage andforbidden to enter into this powerful and ennoblinginstitution. A gay or lesbian couple may love each other asdeeply as any two people, but when you meet a member ofsuch a couple at a party, he or she then introduces you toa "partner," a word that reeks of contingency. You would think that faced with this marriage crisis, weconservatives would do everything in our power to move asmany people as possible from the path of contingency to thepath of fidelity. But instead, many argue that gays must bebanished from matrimony because gay marriage would weakenall marriage. A marriage is between a man and a woman, theysay. It is women who domesticate men and make marriagework. Well, if women really domesticated men, heterosexualmarriage wouldn't be in crisis. In truth, it's moralcommitment, renewed every day through faithfulness, that"domesticates" all people. Some conservatives may have latched onto biologicaldeterminism (men are savages who need women to tame them)as a convenient way to oppose gay marriage. But in fact weare not animals whose lives are bounded by our flesh and byour gender. We're moral creatures with souls, endowed withthe ability to make covenants, such as the one Ruth madewith Naomi: "Where you go I will go, and where you stay Iwill stay. Your people will be my people and your God myGod. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried."The conservative course is not to banish gay people frommaking such commitments. It is to expect that they makesuch commitments. We shouldn't just allow gay marriage. Weshould insist on gay marriage. We should regard it asscandalous that two people could claim to love each otherand not want to sanctify their love with marriage andfidelity. When liberals argue for gay marriage, they make it soundlike a really good employee benefits plan. Or they frame itas a civil rights issue, like extending the right to vote. Marriage is not voting. It's going to be up toconservatives to make the important, moral case formarriage, including gay marriage. Not making it meansdrifting further into the culture of contingency, which,when it comes to intimate and sacred relations, is anabomination.http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/opinion/22BROO.html?ex=1070521917ei=1en=81717fcd74f42d00Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:54:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting Gary - but the problem is not the "culture of contingency" the problem is that God..is the one who defines healthy marriages and healthy relationships. Did you catch this comment, Judy: "We're moral creatures with souls, endowed withthe ability to make covenants, such as the one Ruth madewith Naomi: 'Where you go I will go, and where you stay Iwill stay. Your people will be my people and your God myGod. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried.'"The conservative course is not to banish gay people frommaking such commitments. --November 22, 2003,DAVID BROOKS
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
sounds like you're not being conservative--Izzy gonna get you:) On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 14:33:41 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:54:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Interesting Gary - but the problem is not the "culture of contingency" the problem is that God..is the one who defines healthy marriages and healthy relationships. Did you catch this comment, Judy: "We're moral creatures with souls, endowed with the ability to make covenants, such as the one Ruth made with Naomi: 'Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried.'" The conservative course is not to banish gay people from making such commitments. --November 22, 2003,DAVID BROOKS jt: What Ruth did was a choice rather than a 'covenant' - in that as a Moabitess she chose to stay with her mother-in-law and returnto Israel with her. Ruth later entered a marriage covenant with Boaz. Homosexual people can make whatever choices in this life they want tobut they can never sanctify homosexual relationships and call them marriagein God's eyesight. He has already spoken on the subject. Judy gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:46:57 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: sounds like you're not being conservative--Izzy gonna get you:) also--you're choosing to ignore Brooks' point, simply proving he's correct by re-applying the cultural argument from contingency which (in Brooks' opinion) is at the root of this area of cultural chaos: Judy: What Ruth did was a choice rather than a 'covenant'
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy: Ruth's choice was not a chancy thing well, what was it, then,if not a covenent(?)--what are you tryin' to do with this issue? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
G: Just so I do not misunderstand. Are you in agreement with Mr. Brooks, or do you disagree? Terry The conservative course is not to banish gay people frommaking such commitments. It is to expect that they makesuch commitments. We shouldn't just allow gay marriage. Weshould insist on gay marriage. We should regard it asscandalous that two people could claim to love each otherand not want to sanctify their love with marriage andfidelity.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
?? (you gotta be kidding) On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:17:32 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ruth did not marry Naomi - therefore she did not 'covenant' with her
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
so, what is his point? On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:06:16 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks distorts scripture to try and use it tomake his point .. so yes, that did get lost. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] true--the sense of the scripture in Brooks' article On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:44:56 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Something got lost gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Do you realizewho David Brooks is? Ask your husband (the one you choosenot to covenant with:) Actually, if you (two)prove the 'distortion' [sic], below, you couldsullyBrooks' substantial conservative, editiorial credibilityat the _New York Times_(and PBS)whichliberals like Paul Krugman and Mark Shields've been tryin' todofor years. Have at it:) gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:14:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so, what is his point? On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:06:16 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks distorts scripture to try and use it tomake his point .. so yes, that did get lost. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] true--the sense of the scripture in Brooks' article On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:44:56 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Something got lost gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:35:29 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >..there is behavior that condemns us.What is it?DAVEH: Probably that which you oft times exhibit on TT, g. VBG> i guess i'm documenting too much violent Mormon history:), e.g., about the premier Mormon historian, thrown out of BYU for confirming unsavory facets of Mormon fact, maintaining his stash of prized original Mormon documents privately outside of SLC/LDS control; e.g., about JS/BY Melissa Lott from Mormon records DAVEH: Yeah g.that all sounds pretty violent, eh! -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
g, the NYTimes and PBS doesnt have the slightest CLUE what a conservative is. They probably think Howard Dean is conservative. By the way, I didnt know you were a homo. Should have known, since you hate Bush so much. (Thats pretty funnyI really didnt intend it that way!) Izzy (At least you arent a watered down Christian like j, who has no hatred of evil, but is really into warm,cozy feelings and understanding sinners. Jesus called it lukewarm. Passions go both ways. Much hatred for evil = much capacity for love. Minus that, we are left with linquini-spined, New Age Christianity.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 6:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? Do you realizewho David Brooks is? Ask your husband (the one you choosenot to covenant with:) Actually, if you (two)prove the 'distortion' [sic], below, you couldsullyBrooks' substantial conservative, editiorial credibilityat the _New York Times_(and PBS)whichliberals like Paul Krugman and Mark Shields've been tryin' todofor years. Have at it:) gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 16:14:04 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: so, what is his point? On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 18:06:16 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks distorts scripture to try and use it tomake his point .. so yes, that did get lost. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] true--the sense of the scripture in Brooks' article On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 17:44:56 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Something got lost gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:35:29 -0800 Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..there is behavior that condemns us. What is it? DAVEH: Probably that which you oft times exhibit on TT, g. VBG i guess i'm documenting too much violent Mormonhistory:), e.g.,about the premier Mormonhistorian, thrown out of BYU for confirming unsavory facets of Mormon fact, maintaining his stash of prized original Mormon documents privatelyoutside of SLC/LDS control; e.g.,about JS/BY Melissa Lott from Mormon records
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:43:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]..there is behavior that condemns us. What is it? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com DavidM: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED that you are feelin' scripturally condemned doesn't mean everyone else is/oughta be; 'He that believeth on[JC] is not condemned'
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:43:32 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..there is behavior that condemns us. What is it? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com DavidM: HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED that you are feelin' scripturally condemned doesn't mean everyone else is/oughta be; 'He that believeth on[JC] is not condemned' Izzy says remember: James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
'not condemned' by JCis the hallmark of Abe's 'offspring' James, below,is condemning (through the HS) Abe's literal 'descendents'; they, based on James' personal observations, too, aren'tcapable'offspring' of Abe via 'promise' On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:53:40 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy says remember: James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe [that], and shudder.
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Agreed. But neither do I have a casual attitude about that. I still walk in the Fear of the Lord. Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 2:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? 'not condemned' by JCis the hallmark of Abe's 'offspring' James, below,is condemning (through the HS) Abe's literal 'descendents'; they, based on James' personal observations, too, aren'tcapable'offspring' of Abe via 'promise' On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:53:40 -0600 ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Izzy says remember: James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe [that], and shudder.
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy wrote: If those in street ministry are unable to perform the Ministry of Jesus then they are out there on their own; we need to wait as He did, until we receive power from on high to meet the needs of the people. Hi Judy. There is certainly a truth about waiting on the Lord and trusting in Him and receiving power from on high before we go and minister unto others. Before I ever preached on the streets, I fasted 40 days as Jesus did. I would say that this qualifies as waiting on the Lord prior to ministry. Yes, I have experienced casting out devils and healing the sick. Sometimes I have had them run up to me like they did Jesus and ask me to deliver them from demons. But what I sense from you is that you have not yet entered into this kind of kingdom experience, yet you comment upon it rather authoritatively, using the Bible and your knowledge of Scripture to make your comments. Jesus said: If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:17 KJV) Much will make more sense when you DO HIS WILL in all these things. When you become complete and whole in doing his will, the rest just falls right into place. Now the power of God that you desire in regards to healing the sick and casting out devils is dependent upon faith, not just the faith of the minister of God, but the faith of those being ministered unto. I readily acknowledge to you that in most cases, the power of God being manifest in this way in my public ministry is not nearly what Jesus himself manifested. I believe that this is because of faith and the time in which we live. Jesus himself had to lay his miracle ministry aside and stay with teaching only when the faith of the people did not allow it because of unbelief. Consider the following passages of Scripture: And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching. (Mark 6:5-6 KJV) Matthew says it this way: And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. (Matthew 13:58 KJV) As the gospel message has spread far and wide and become common place, we experience much the same thing in a kind of historical age context that Jesus experienced in going to his hometown. People think they know about Jesus. People think they know who he is and what he is about. They lack faith in him. Therefore, Jesus is not able to do many mighty works among them, but he ends up sticking primarily with teaching. The Scriptures speak clearly that there is an apostasy in the last days, and that the love of many would wax cold (remember that faith works by love). Therefore, we expect more and more for there to be a falling away, for the miraculous ministry in public places to wane, and the prophetic ministry of judgment to become more prevalent. This is the Elijah spirit which was prophesied to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord. Therefore, my mindset is that the age of grace is drawing to a close. As this happens, there will be more and more testimony along the lines of that given by the two witnesses in Revelation 11. In other words, not all preaching will be just good news preaching, but prophetic warnings of the judgment of God. Such would not be harvesting messages, seeking to save the lost, but legal warnings and admonitions given by a just God. Such messages actually will torment the wicked, just as the two witnesses in Revelation 11 are said to have tormented those on the earth. ... these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. (Revelation 11:10 KJV) There is one other aspect to consider here in regards to public ministry, and that is the difference between sowing and reaping. The apostles were sent forth to reap where they had not sown. And herein is that saying true, One soweth, and another reapeth. I sent you to reap that whereon ye bestowed no labour: other men laboured, and ye are entered into their labours. (John 4:37-38 KJV) Those who had sown did not have the miraculous ministry (for example, John the Baptist ministering in the Elijah spirit), whereas those who reaped did have the miraculous ministry. Many street preachers today primarily practice a sowing ministry. They sow the word of God, often ministering the law, and others will later reap (harvest) what they have sown. Understanding the diversity of Christ will help us not miss something God is doing just because it does not look exactly like what we are expecting. Judy wrote: They are already under a curse, we don't need to condemn them any further. I hope you understand that I do not condemn anyone. I only declare God's Word concerning the Truth. Those who are condemned are condemned by their own heart and by their own words. I certainly take away their cloak for sin, but I do not directly condemn them. This is a subtle but important
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]..there is behavior that condemns us. What is it? gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy wrote: Look at how some of these ppl act in the name of Christ, shooting doctors, bombing Abortion Clinics, climbing flag poles, and they say God told them to do it? I ask you to show me one place, just one in the book of Acts and all of the Epistles where any valid ministry acted like this. I do not support shooting abortionists or bombing abortion clinics. Nevertheless, the attitude of standing up to those who revel in sin is illustrated well by David when he stood up to Goliath. The difference in the New Covenant is that we understand our warfare is spiritual and not carnal. Therefore, our sword is wielding the Word of God rather than a physical sword. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Gary wrote: What is it? He that believeth on him is not condemned: but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For EVERY ONE THAT DOETH EVIL HATETH THE LIGHT, NEITHER COMETH TO THE LIGHT, LEST HIS DEEDS SHOULD BE REPROVED. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:18-21 KJV) Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:24:43 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >..there is behavior that condemns us.What is it?DAVEH: Probably that which you oft times exhibit on TT, g. VBG> gary ottoson :: http://poet235.com -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Terry, Where do you find in scripture that Lot preached in Sodom? He chose it because it was a well watered plain and it was probably going downhill then. I know scripture teaches that Noah preached to his generation - but Lot? Judy On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:43:30 -0600 (Central Standard Time) "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I will be checking out e-sword tonight, right after I find a t-shirt that I can afford. (Lot preached in Sodom PRIOR to the instructions given by Jesus.) Thanks for the help. Terry Dean Writes: Thank you Terry-Adam Clark wrote a commentary in the form of a book but I got this from E-Sword-a free commentary download site(it's loaded)-which comes with a great program for assemble the programs together-D. Miller showed me where to find this. Punch in e-Sword for a web search and you have it Bro.Let me know it there are any problems. But God sent Lot too preached in Sodom :-) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
I wonder if Lot was one even ABLE to preach. Look at the testimony provided by Scripture... His willingness to have his daughters violated (yes... I understand the concept of hospitality and visitorsfrom an Old-Eastern perspective, but he had other choices available) His son-in-laws did not believe his testimony His unwillingness to leave Sodom when told of its imminent destruction He wanted to remain in a city environment in spite of the warning from the Visitors He had drunken relations with both his daughters This, of course, said in lieu of his (assumably) being the single righteous man in Sodom. (Perhaps the reason he was liberated from annihilation is that he was related to Avraham.) shalom slade e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 19 November, 2003 18:57 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? Terry, Where do you find in scripture that Lot preached in Sodom? He chose it because it was a well watered plain and it was probably going downhill then. I know scripture teaches that Noah preached to his generation - but Lot? Judy On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:43:30 -0600 (Central Standard Time) "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I will be checking out e-sword tonight, right after I find a t-shirt that I can afford. (Lot preached in Sodom PRIOR to the instructions given by Jesus.) Thanks for the help. Terry Dean Writes: Thank you Terry-Adam Clark wrote a commentary in the form of a book but I got this from E-Sword-a free commentary download site(it's loaded)-which comes with a great program for assemble the programs together-D. Miller showed me where to find this. Punch in e-Sword for a web search and you have it Bro.Let me know it there are any problems. But God sent Lot too preached in Sodom :-) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here IMSTP.gif
Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy: I did not find that in scripture. Didn't even look tosee if it was there. Just responded to a blurb from Dean. Terry Where do you find in scripture that Lot preached in Sodom? He chose it because it was a well watered plain and it was probably going downhill then. I know scripture teaches that Noah preached to his generation - but Lot? Judy On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:43:30 -0600 (Central Standard Time) "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I will be checking out e-sword tonight, right after I find a t-shirt that I can afford. (Lot preached in Sodom PRIOR to the instructions given by Jesus.) Thanks for the help. Terry Dean Writes: Thank you Terry-Adam Clark wrote a commentary in the form of a book but I got this from E-Sword-a free commentary download site(it's loaded)-which comes with a great program for assemble the programs together-D. Miller showed me where to find this. Punch in e-Sword for a web search and you have it Bro.Let me know it there are any problems. But God sent Lot too preached in Sodom :-) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom?
Judy: After doing a little research, the only thing I could find about Lot preaching was Genesis 19:6-9. Lot is begging the Sodomites not to do WICKEDLY. They respond by saying he KEEPS acting as a judge. (new KJV). Evidently he had talked to them about their wickedness on multiple occasions, and they resented it. Terry ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 07:02:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: **Possible_Spam** Re: [TruthTalk] Did Lot preach to Sodom? Judy: I did not find that in scripture. Didn't even look tosee if it was there. Just responded to a blurb from Dean. Terry Where do you find in scripture that Lot preached in Sodom? He chose it because it was a well watered plain and it was probably going downhill then. I know scripture teaches that Noah preached to his generation - but Lot? Judy On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:43:30 -0600 (Central Standard Time) "Terry Clifton" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I will be checking out e-sword tonight, right after I find a t-shirt that I can afford. (Lot preached in Sodom PRIOR to the instructions given by Jesus.) Thanks for the help. Terry Dean Writes: Thank you Terry-Adam Clark wrote a commentary in the form of a book but I got this from E-Sword-a free commentary download site(it's loaded)-which comes with a great program for assemble the programs together-D. Miller showed me where to find this. Punch in e-Sword for a web search and you have it Bro.Let me know it there are any problems. But God sent Lot too preached in Sodom :-) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
