Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addiction' that caught my > attention, > David.> > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To:> Sent: February 20, 2006 10:51> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative> > > > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly assist me as to any distinction that> >> might exist between:> >> 1. Those who are born of God do not sin. &> >> 2. those who ...continue in their ADDICTION to sin.> >> > I'm not sure what you are looking for here, Lance. The > distinction seems> > rather obvious. Those born of God do not sin while those addicted > to sin> > do. There is a commonality between the two people: they both > have a > > flesh> > which is a source of temptation. The difference is that one > follows the> > Spirit and therefore fulfills the law of love, while the other > continues > > to> > yield to his carnal desires.> >> > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly expand upon 'the commandments of Jesus'> >> > All the commandments are summed up in the commandments to love God > and > > love> > your neighbor. There are many other commandments also, but they > are > > summed> > up in these two.> >> > Some passages for your consideration, illustrating some details > about how > > to> > love God and love your neighbor:> >> > Luke 18:18-22> > (18) And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what > shall I d
Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
In your opinion Lance? On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addiction' that caught my > attention, > David.> > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To:> Sent: February 20, 2006 10:51> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative> > > > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly assist me as to any distinction that> >> might exist between:> >> 1. Those who are born of God do not sin. &> >> 2. those who ...continue in their ADDICTION to sin.> >> > I'm not sure what you are looking for here, Lance. The > distinction seems> > rather obvious. Those born of God do not sin while those addicted > to sin> > do. There is a commonality between the two people: they both > have a > > flesh> > which is a source of temptation. The difference is that one > follows the> > Spirit and therefore fulfills the law of love, while the other > continues > > to> > yield to his carnal desires.> >> > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly expand upon 'the commandments of Jesus'> >> > All the commandments are summed up in the commandments to love God > and > > love> > your neighbor. There a
Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
What I'm saying Judy in other words than those spoken is: Do you, DMand CD do anything on a given day that is 'unholy'? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness In your opinion Lance? On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addiction' that caught my > attention, > David.> > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>> Sent: February 20, 2006 10:51> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative> > > > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly assist me as to any distinction that> >> might exist between:> >> 1. Thos
Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
Why would somone who believes that to be holy is to be "in eis" and what's more that the whole world is already "in eis" ask such a question Lance? On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:42:06 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: What I'm saying Judy in other words than those spoken is: Do you, DMand CD do anything on a given day that is 'unholy'? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness In your opinion Lance? On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addicti
Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/20/2006 12:51:25 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. cd: Actually those that are saved and return to sin(ie.Apostate) will have harder hell the those who have never known Christ/H. Spirit.For to whom much is giving must is expected. How important is it to know this esp. if one doesn't hold sin in a high regard? Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addiction' that caught my > attention, > David.> > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>> Sent: February 20, 2006 1 0:51> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative> > > > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly assist me as to any distinction that> >> might exist between:> >> 1. Those who are born of God do not sin. &> >> 2. those who ...continue in their ADDICTION to sin.> >> > I'm not sure what you are looking for here, Lance. The > distinction seems> > rather obvious. Those born of God do not sin while those addicted > to sin> > do. There is a commonality between the two people: they both > have a > > flesh> > which is a source of temptation. The difference is that one > follows the> > Spirit
Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness
- Original Message - From: Lance Muir To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: 2/20/2006 1:52:26 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness What I'm saying Judy in other words than those spoken is: Do you, DMand CD do anything on a given day that is 'unholy'? cd: No! To be unholy is to be evil so again, no! 1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, The law has no hold on the godly- only the law breakers. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:55 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Holiness In your opinion Lance? On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:50:53 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy:I'm genuinely sorry but, as is so often the case when I engage you in conversation, I believe that we are having two quite different conversations containing differrent meanings. Please know that I don't have any difficulty in Scripture's admonition to 'be holy'. What I do have difficulty in understanding from DM, JT and CD has to do with the presence of the absence of holiness. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 12:02 Subject: [TruthTalk] Holiness Same as what Barna has learned - maybe you should buy and stock his book Lance... Reflections on Holiness The new survey findings, when combined with existing knowledge about the state of faith in America, caused the surveys director, George Barna, to suggest that churches need to take this body of information seriously. Realize that the results portray a body of Christians who attend church and read the Bible, but do not understand the concept or significance of holiness, do not personally desire to be holy, and therefore do little, if anything to pursue it. However, the data identify a remnant that understands holiness, wants to live a holy life, and is engaged in its pursuit. The challenge to the nations Christian ministries is to foster a genuine hunger for holiness among the masses who claim they love God but who are ignorant about biblical teachings regarding holiness. From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy:Let me offer my reading of your 'redness' in 2 parts: 1.How many? Me and, everyone with whom I speak as believer to believer. 2.Achieve? It all depends upon that which you mean by 'holiness' which is the thrust of this whole conversation. thanks for your input, Lance - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: February 20, 2006 11:18 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative Lance the following may be of help you because this is basically the issue you and David are dealing with. He believes it is possible. You do not judyt The Barna Update: February 20, 2006 Be holy because I am holy are Gods words to His people. Buthow many Christians believe that God has called them to be holy or that achieving holiness is even possible? How many knowsomeone they consider to be holy? What do they understandholiness to mean? Our newest survey examines Americans views ofholiness and reflects on the implications of these perspectivesfor individual spirituality and the health of the Church. To readthis free report, click on the link below or visit our website atwww.barna.org. On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:11:40 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:> Obvious to you David, may not be obvious to everyone. I'm sure that > you've > not failed to note my own 'cranial density' on more than a few > occasions. I > trust that it is obvious to you, et al, that I'm attempting to > obtain > scripture/statements from those I've taken to referencing as 'the > sinless > ones' in order that I may move on to other things.> > Those who do not sin = believers?> Those who sin = non-believers?> > It was your employment of the word 'addiction' that caught my > attention, > David.> > > - Original Message - > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>> Sent: February 20, 2006 1 0:51> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Greek Present Indicative> > > > Lance wrote:> >> David:Kindly assist me as to any distinction that> >> might exist between:> >> 1. Those who are born of God do not sin. &> >> 2. those who ...continue in their ADDICTION to sin.> >> > I'm not sure what you are looking for here, Lance. The > distinction seems> > rather obvious. Those born