Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-03 Thread Raymond Feng
I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the 
definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much as it 
breaks the modularity and extensibility story.


Thanks,
Raymond

--
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:16 AM
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: svn commit: r632646 - in 
/incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions: ./ src/ src/main/ 
src/main/java/ src/main/java/org/ src/main/java/org/apache/ 
src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/ src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/ 
src/main/java/org/...



Author: svkrish
Date: Sat Mar  1 11:15:54 2008
New Revision: 632646

URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=632646&view=rev
Log:
adding maven shade transformer for aggregating sca definitions files

Added:
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER 
(with props)
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/LICENSE 
(with props)
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/NOTICE   (with 
props)
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/pom.xml 
(with props)

   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefinitionsAppendingTransformer.java 
(with props)

   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/
   incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/java/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/

incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefnsAppendingTransformerTest.java 
(with props)


Added: incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
URL: 
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER?rev=632646&view=auto

==
--- incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER 
(added)
+++ incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER 
Sat Mar  1 11:15:54 2008

@@ -0,0 +1,8 @@
+Apache Tuscany is an effort undergoing incubation at The Apache Software
+Foundation (ASF), sponsored by the Apache Web Services PMC. Incubation is
+required of all newly accepted projects until a further review indicates 
that
+the infrastructure, communications, and decision making process have 
stabilized
+in a manner consistent with other successful ASF projects. While 
incubation
+status is not necessarily a reflection of the completeness or stability 
of the
+code, it does indicate that the project has yet to be fully endorsed by 
the ASF.

+

Propchange: 
incubator/tuscany/java

Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-03 Thread Simon Laws
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Raymond Feng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the
> definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much as it
> breaks the modularity and extensibility story.
>
> Thanks,
> Raymond
>
> --
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:16 AM
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: svn commit: r632646 - in
> /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions: ./ src/
> src/main/
> src/main/java/ src/main/java/org/ src/main/java/org/apache/
> src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/ src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> src/main/java/org/...
>
> > Author: svkrish
> > Date: Sat Mar  1 11:15:54 2008
> > New Revision: 632646
> >
> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=632646&view=rev
> > Log:
> > adding maven shade transformer for aggregating sca definitions files
> >
> > Added:
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/LICENSE
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/NOTICE
> (with
> > props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/pom.xml
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/
> >
>  incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefinitionsAppendingTransformer.java
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/
> >
>  incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/java/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefnsAppendingTransformerTest.java
> > (with props)
> >
> > Added:
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > URL:
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER?rev=632646&view=auto
> >
> ==
> > --- incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > (added)
> > +++ incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > Sat Mar  1 11:15:54 2008
> > @@ -0,0 +1,8 @@
> > +Apache Tuscany is an effort undergoing incubation at The Apache
> Software
> > +Foundation (ASF), sponsored by the Apache Web Services PMC. Incubation
> is
> > +required of

Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-03 Thread Jean-Sebastien Delfino

Raymond Feng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the
definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much as it
breaks the modularity and extensibility story.


+1 to that.

Simon Laws wrote:

If we are going to stick using the shader to produce an "all" jar then we
need something to aggregate definitions files together correctly. People may
put definitions.xml files in the same place in different modules by accident
even if we were to come up with a naming scheme.

Having said that I agree with you that I don't know why we have the all jar.
The thing that confuses me is that we also build a manifest jar which
references the all jar and all of the independent modules that we also ship?
We copy the modules when we create a war. We use the "all" jar to make the
build.xml script simpler for those samples that don't build a war but it
might be more instructive to list out all the modules that samples use.
Alternatively use the manifest jar.

Simon



+1 from me. Listing the required JARs is also what I've been trying to 
promote with the maven-ant-generator plugin, which generates a build.xml 
file containing the JARs you need from your pom.xml.


I think it wouldn't be hard to go one step further and generate the list 
of JARs from the capabilities required by a composite (implementation 
types, bindings, policy types). That would allow application developers 
to (1) not have to write these build files (2) see in the generated 
build files exactly what they're using instead of an opaque tuscany-all.jar.


--
Jean-Sebastien

-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-03 Thread Simon Laws
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Jean-Sebastien Delfino <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Raymond Feng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the
> >> definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much as
> it
> >> breaks the modularity and extensibility story.
>
> +1 to that.
>
> Simon Laws wrote:
> > If we are going to stick using the shader to produce an "all" jar then
> we
> > need something to aggregate definitions files together correctly. People
> may
> > put definitions.xml files in the same place in different modules by
> accident
> > even if we were to come up with a naming scheme.
> >
> > Having said that I agree with you that I don't know why we have the all
> jar.
> > The thing that confuses me is that we also build a manifest jar which
> > references the all jar and all of the independent modules that we also
> ship?
> > We copy the modules when we create a war. We use the "all" jar to make
> the
> > build.xml script simpler for those samples that don't build a war but it
> > might be more instructive to list out all the modules that samples use.
> > Alternatively use the manifest jar.
> >
> > Simon
> >
>
> +1 from me. Listing the required JARs is also what I've been trying to
> promote with the maven-ant-generator plugin, which generates a build.xml
> file containing the JARs you need from your pom.xml.
>
> I think it wouldn't be hard to go one step further and generate the list
> of JARs from the capabilities required by a composite (implementation
> types, bindings, policy types). That would allow application developers
> to (1) not have to write these build files (2) see in the generated
> build files exactly what they're using instead of an opaque
> tuscany-all.jar.
>
> --
> Jean-Sebastien
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

Off topic a little but maybe we could add some more targets to the ant file
to build our various hosting options (build-standalone, build-webapp,...).
The pain we have at the moment is that the all jar can naturally only have
one hosting option but then it really confuses people because we ship with
Tomcat and hence they will get failures if they try, inadvertently, to build
a webapp using it, i.e. host-webapp can't be found.

Simon


Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-03 Thread Venkata Krishnan
Hi Raymond,

What I've done here is just about my own shade transformer and I did this
just to keep our distribution going.  I could not get  the 'provider' option
suggested by Sebastien done quickly as there needs some trouble with
positioning the providers in the right modules and dealing with
dependencies.  Here is where I mentioned about this
http://www.mail-archive.com/tuscany-dev%40ws.apache.org/msg28469.html.

Thanks

- Venkat

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Raymond Feng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the
> definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much as it
> breaks the modularity and extensibility story.
>
> Thanks,
> Raymond
>
> --
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:16 AM
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: svn commit: r632646 - in
> /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions: ./ src/
> src/main/
> src/main/java/ src/main/java/org/ src/main/java/org/apache/
> src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/ src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> src/main/java/org/...
>
> > Author: svkrish
> > Date: Sat Mar  1 11:15:54 2008
> > New Revision: 632646
> >
> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=632646&view=rev
> > Log:
> > adding maven shade transformer for aggregating sca definitions files
> >
> > Added:
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/LICENSE
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/NOTICE
> (with
> > props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/pom.xml
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/
> >
>  incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/main/java/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefinitionsAppendingTransformer.java
> > (with props)
> >incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/
> >
>  incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/java/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/
> >
> >
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/src/test/resources/org/apache/tuscany/sca/tools/maven/plugin/shade/transformer/SCADefnsAppendingTransformerTest.java
> > (with props)
> >
> > Added:
> incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER
> > URL:
> >
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions/DISCLAIMER?rev=632646&view=auto
> >
> ==

Re: svn commit: r632646 - in /incubator/tuscany/java/sca/tools/maven/maven-definitions:

2008-03-05 Thread ant elder
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Simon Laws <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Jean-Sebastien Delfino <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >Raymond Feng <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> I wonder if it's too heavy to develop a maven plugin to merge the
> > >> definitions.xml file. BTW, I don't like the all-in-one jar too much
> as
> > it
> > >> breaks the modularity and extensibility story.
> >
> > +1 to that.
> >
> > Simon Laws wrote:
> > > If we are going to stick using the shader to produce an "all" jar then
> > we
> > > need something to aggregate definitions files together correctly.
> People
> > may
> > > put definitions.xml files in the same place in different modules by
> > accident
> > > even if we were to come up with a naming scheme.
> > >
> > > Having said that I agree with you that I don't know why we have the
> all
> > jar.
> > > The thing that confuses me is that we also build a manifest jar which
> > > references the all jar and all of the independent modules that we also
> > ship?
> > > We copy the modules when we create a war. We use the "all" jar to make
> > the
> > > build.xml script simpler for those samples that don't build a war but
> it
> > > might be more instructive to list out all the modules that samples
> use.
> > > Alternatively use the manifest jar.
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> >
> > +1 from me. Listing the required JARs is also what I've been trying to
> > promote with the maven-ant-generator plugin, which generates a build.xml
> > file containing the JARs you need from your pom.xml.
> >
> > I think it wouldn't be hard to go one step further and generate the list
> > of JARs from the capabilities required by a composite (implementation
> > types, bindings, policy types). That would allow application developers
> > to (1) not have to write these build files (2) see in the generated
> > build files exactly what they're using instead of an opaque
> > tuscany-all.jar.
> >
> > --
> > Jean-Sebastien
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
> Off topic a little but maybe we could add some more targets to the ant
> file
> to build our various hosting options (build-standalone, build-webapp,...).
> The pain we have at the moment is that the all jar can naturally only have
> one hosting option but then it really confuses people because we ship with
> Tomcat and hence they will get failures if they try, inadvertently, to
> build
> a webapp using it, i.e. host-webapp can't be found.
>
> Simon
>

I agree and think that type of thing may be the approach with most
potential. A significant problem with not using some form of aggregated jar
is that we expose Tuscany internals to users so each time we add/remove
modules (which we seem to do regularly) we break users builds, providing
tools to automatically generate scripts or dependencies helps but i doubt it
works or is convenient for all users so it would be better if we could find
a way where the Tuscany jars a user references doesn't change much over
releases.

As and example, if we take all the Tuscany modules used by the calculator
sample as listed here:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ws-tuscany-user/200803.mbox/[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]

Could that form the basis of a single Tuscany jar named tuscany-base or
tuscany-kernal or tuscany-minimal or some such name? And then we can add
other jars to be used with that for various runtime and hosting
environments?

   ...ant