Re: [Tutor] Borrowing restricted code
On Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 07:49:58PM +, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 05/12/2018 16:22, Avi Gross wrote: > > [huge snip] > > Please take yourself to another forum, your ramblings have no place on > the *PYTHON TUTOR* mailing list. Steady on Mark, a lot of what Avi says is misinformed or close to stream-of-consciousness irrelevant chatter (no offense Avi, but you do go on and on with no apparent point sometimes), but some of it is relevant to Python programming. Every programmer who distributes or copies software needs to have at least a basic understanding of copyright and licencing. We allow discussions about IDEs or the best graphical libraries, and they too are only peripherally related to Python. But they are related, just as licencing and copyright are. -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Borrowing restricted code
On Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 11:22:35AM -0500, Avi Gross wrote: > I am NOT advocating copying code. Not even "free" code. > > I am saying there may be times you want to package the code for special > purposes. "Packaging" the code IS copying the code. > Perhaps someone can enlighten me on a subtle aspect here. > > What does it mean to include something? https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/include [... description of how #include works in C ...] > The above is not meant to be a precise description but indicates that your > code was rarely all your own. You could literally set it up so if someone > else left their code unguarded, you could arrange to grab text or library > code into your finished executable. The precise details of what an individual programming language means by "including" code will, naturally, depend on the language in question. This is not really the place to go into a detailed description of all the possible variations (this is supposed to be a *Python* forum after all) but briefly there are at least two kinds of code which we might "include": source code and compiled object code. When "including" source code, the interpreter might read a command like "load spam", look up a file "spam", read the contents into memory, parse it and run it through the interpreter as if it had been copied and pasted into the original file in place of the "load" line. When "including" object code, the compiler (or often a separate program called a linker) can make a copy of the object code and insert that code directly into the object code it is generating. This is called "static linking". An alternative is to leave the object code where it is, but instead insert instructions for how to access it at runtime. This is called "dynamic linking". https://kb.iu.edu/d/akqn Python's import is (I think) closer to dynamic linking than the others. > In python, you can generally have access to the python code of what you can > import or at least to the byte code. But there may be different rules > attached to several categories. > > If you use "import" you don't so much copy as USE the code. I mean the > interpreter pauses evaluating the current file and opens the one you asked > for and reads it as if it were your code. That is not entirely wrong, but its not quite right either. The action of the import command is surprisingly complex, and so I may have got some subtle details wrong. But the high-level overview of what the interpreter does when you run "import spam" is as follows. 1. Look for an already loaded module "spam"; if the interpreter finds one, it creates an new variable called "spam" in the current namespace, and assigns that module object to that name. The import is complete. # Pseudo-code if "spam" in sys.modules: spam = sys.modules["spam"] return 2. If no such already loaded module, then search a set of known locations for a library called "spam": # Pseudo-code for location in sys.path: for filename in os.listdir(location): name, ext = path.splitext(filename) if name == "spam": if ext == ".py": read the source code from spam.py into memory parse it into bytecode into memory write out the bytecode to spam.pyc elif ext == ".pyc": read the bytecode from spam.pyc into memory else: # other cases handled here, e.g. packages, zip files, # C libraries (.dll or .so), other extensions etc. # Assuming we get to here... create a module object in memory run that bytecode, using that module object as the namespace cache the module object in sys.modules['spam'] spam = module object return # no such "spam" module or package found raise ImportError So you can see that modules are only executed the first time the interpreter imports them, not on subsequent imports. There really isn't a distinction to make between code treated "as if it were your code" and other code. All code is treated the same. How could it not be? The interpreter cannot know which modules or libraries you wrote, which were collaborative efforts between you and other people, and which were written by other people. > Some actions are transient. A line > like "5+3" evaluates to 8 and you ignore it. But many and perhaps most lines > end up creating instantiations of objects (yes, classes are also objects) > which then sit in memory. Or get used and then disposed of by the garbage collector. > Functions are also objects and pretty much contain > within them everything you need to reconstruct the function if you know > where to look. Is what is copied really different than the original text > used? Yes. > If you import the base modules that come with python, can you assume it is > freely given with few strings other than the kind discussed? There is no need to assume anything, you
Re: [Tutor] Any 'graphical' ways of learning Python
Hello Matthew, Although, its not for Graphics, I have noticed that http://www.pythontutor.com is a good place that can come in handy for students who are new to programming. It gives a graphical view of how memory is allocated for variables and how functions are invoked in a program. I have seen students strengthen their fundamental programming concepts through the visual representation of code flow on this website. You could try this as well. On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:54 PM Matthew Polack < matthew.pol...@htlc.vic.edu.au> wrote: > Hi All, > > We're using Python with our Year 9 and 10 students to teach programming. > I've started with basic console programming...doing simple games like a > quiz game etc. > > Students always seem to like 'graphics'..one of the reasons things like > 'Scratch' are so popular in schools is because of the ready made GUI. > > My concern with things like 'Scratch' and 'Game Engines' is that perhaps > kids can miss out on learning core fundamentals...but can appreciate some > visuals can be very motivating... > > Can anyone recommend any ways of integrating 'graphics' but in a simpler > way. > > I've had some experience with TKinter...(which is still quite a jump for > beginners)also can see that 'Pygame' might offer some of this... > > also have seen some tutorials on Udemy that encourages using the 'Turtle'. > > Does anything else come to find for helping kids stay engaged when they > start to get tired of just text based console programming? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > Matthew Polack | Teacher > > -- > **Disclaimer: *Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material > contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, > the > attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the > user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This > email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above > and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you > are > not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email > or telephone +61 3 5382 2529** and destroy the original message.* > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > -- Thanks -- Sarfraaz Ahmed ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Borrowing restricted code
On 05/12/2018 16:22, Avi Gross wrote: [huge snip] Please take yourself to another forum, your ramblings have no place on the *PYTHON TUTOR* mailing list. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Borrowing restricted code
I don't want to start (and continue) another sideways discussion. Alan and Steven (not Stephen) both made very good points and helped clarify my understanding. I am NOT advocating copying code. Not even "free" code. I am saying there may be times you want to package the code for special purposes. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on a subtle aspect here. What does it mean to include something? If we return to the days of yesteryear, albeit much of it exists this year, a major programming paradigm was to compile a language like C or PASCAL into some machine language or a binary form. But you only wrote a part of the final program and inserted parts from what had been written, mainly, by others. One inclusion in languages like C was variants of lines like this: #include "stdio.h" What would happen was when a phase of the compile process read your file and saw a request to include, it would pause, try to find the file in the usual places, and then copy the text and continue. This could be recursive if that file included another. It is in one sense similar to how "import" works in python or "library" in R and similar features in other languages. What was different was that one large file was created which was a flattened version of this tree of code. Another pass of the compiler would then process it. Nothing was RUN until later and only if there were no compilation errors. Along the way, another form of inclusion had to happen. If your code (directly or indirectly) called functions not defined in your own code, and not already compiled in, it had to search assorted libraries of such code, find the segments needed, and link them in. Eventually, it got even worse and shared libraries would be mounted in memory and when your code ran, it would link in what was needed. The above is not meant to be a precise description but indicates that your code was rarely all your own. You could literally set it up so if someone else left their code unguarded, you could arrange to grab text or library code into your finished executable. In python, you can generally have access to the python code of what you can import or at least to the byte code. But there may be different rules attached to several categories. If you use "import" you don't so much copy as USE the code. I mean the interpreter pauses evaluating the current file and opens the one you asked for and reads it as if it were your code. Some actions are transient. A line like "5+3" evaluates to 8 and you ignore it. But many and perhaps most lines end up creating instantiations of objects (yes, classes are also objects) which then sit in memory. Functions are also objects and pretty much contain within them everything you need to reconstruct the function if you know where to look. Is what is copied really different than the original text used? If you import the base modules that come with python, can you assume it is freely given with few strings other than the kind discussed? If it is outside but available from a standard download location, perhaps you need to see the documentation for each item. If it is sold to you, I suspect you need to be very careful about including any. Back to the main topic, for me. What kind of uses might be considered legal or at least not worth prosecuting? The law in various countries likely differs, Alan and I are definitely using different legal systems but possibly not as different as where Asad is. (His phone number would be in India.) Clearly if you make a product and sell it, then borrowing code can be a serious thing. If you are a student doing a homework assignment and will never use it again, few might care especially if you use small amounts and don't claim it is your own work. But the question I would like answered is DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE how you borrow the use of the code? We talked about the normal intended method: Load the file into a place on your local machine. Write one or more python files and one of them imports it. A second method I suggested WHEN NEEDED AND ALLOWED is to find the code you need, perhaps on another machine where you can download it, or in some other public repository. Copy the minimum you need into your own code, with perhaps enough attribution and explanation. Now what about a third way? No edit needed. Simply use a program like "cat" to concatenate multiple files including the one with your code into a bigger lump. Feed that to the python interpreter. Included would be the code you want. True, the code would now all be in one namespace. But is this form of copying all that much different than was intended? I am not going to continue in any further discussion. But I do think this could be useful to people learning python as often the best way to find out how to do something is to study the code of someone who did it. You might want to play with it and see if you can improve it or vary some part ... So it would be good to know what can be done legally and what to avoid. As
Re: [Tutor] Any 'graphical' ways of learning Python
I've liked turtle and make my graphing more interesting by asking for user input such as dimensions, then graph automatically. One starter source for using pygame graphics is https://inventwithpython.com/pygame/ It jumps into game writing very quickly, but provides explanations of commands. The one I'm working on now is using the arcade library developed by a python college professor: http://arcade.academy Many many examples of code (including videos of student projects) are provided to help you write games that resemble many of our favorites. On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 3:40 AM Alan Gauld via Tutor wrote: > On 05/12/2018 00:39, Matthew Polack wrote: > > > Can anyone recommend any ways of integrating 'graphics' but in a simpler > > way. > > > > Have you considered the turtle module. > > Its limited to drawing shapes but does give some immediate results. > You can of course create functions to draw more sophisticated shapes > etc. And you write the code in an ordinary IDE/editor so its a good > transition from fully graphical scratch to fully text mode Python. > > -- > Alan G > Author of the Learn to Program web site > http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ > http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld > Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos > > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > On Dec 5, 2018 3:40 AM, "Alan Gauld via Tutor" wrote: On 05/12/2018 00:39, Matthew Polack wrote: > Can anyone recommend any ways of integrating 'graphics' but in a simpler > way. > Have you considered the turtle module. Its limited to drawing shapes but does give some immediate results. You can of course create functions to draw more sophisticated shapes etc. And you write the code in an ordinary IDE/editor so its a good transition from fully graphical scratch to fully text mode Python. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Any 'graphical' ways of learning Python
On Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 11:39:49AM +1100, Matthew Polack wrote: > Hi All, > > We're using Python with our Year 9 and 10 students to teach programming. Yay! And I see you're a fellow Aussie :-) > I've started with basic console programming...doing simple games like a > quiz game etc. > > Students always seem to like 'graphics'..one of the reasons things like > 'Scratch' are so popular in schools is because of the ready made GUI. Indeed. Alas, graphics is one of Python's weaknesses, especially at the beginners' level. The easiest to use will be the turtle module, although its fairly limited in what it does. Its basically a simulation of the turtle from the Logo programming language. Logo was cutting edge about half a century ago. You might try PyGame, although I don't know how easy it will be for you to pre-install it for the students, or how difficult it is to use (I've never used it myself). https://www.pygame.org/ Another option is PySimpleGUI: https://pypi.org/project/PySimpleGUI/ -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Beginners Book, Python and PyScripter
On Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 08:44:14AM +, Alan Gauld via Tutor wrote: > On 04/12/2018 23:52, James Stapleton-Cotton wrote: > > > USERs-MacBook-Pro:~ user$ python hello.py > > python: can't open file 'hello.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory > > You need to provide the full path to the Python file. > > > I previously created a python file called 'hello.py' using the PyCharmEdu > > editor (as instructed). This file is saved in my 'Documents' in a folder > > called 'Pycharm Projects' > > So you would have needed to type > > user$ python "~/Documents/Pycharm Projects/hello.py" To be absolutely clear here, the "user$" part is the prompt, you don't type that. -- Steve ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Copyleft
Avi, Why do you keep changing the subject line? You started a new thread about "borrowing" (copying) code, people responded to that thread, and you've immediately changed the subject to "Copyleft" even though you talk about much more than copyleft licences. (You barely mention copyleft at all -- and what you say about it is very inaccurate.) On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 07:50:21PM -0500, Avi Gross wrote: > Alan, > > Just a reminder. I am NOT suggesting the first way to solve a problem > is what I described. I am saying that sometimes a roadblock (real or > imagined) can be gotten around using methods like that. In my experience, the sorts of organisations which make it difficult to install third-party software (whether FOSS or proprietary) are also the sorts of organisations which will fire you immediately for copying someone else's code. YMMV. > Agreed. There are copyrights that have to be considered, albeit often > SMALL amounts are considered OK. Attribution is a good idea in > general. There's another factor to consider: software patents. If you're going to copy a small amount of code, you may still violate their patent. (Disclaimer: I am not a patent lawyer.) In that case, giving credit to them will be tantamount to admitting to willful infringement, which in most jurisdictions that I know of receives triple damages. That's how broken the patent system is: the penalties for infringement encourage people to avoid doing a patent search. Its better to say "We couldn't be bothered doing a patent search" than to say "We tried to do due diligence but failed to spot this patent", because when it comes to patents, if you make the effort but fail, you are deemed to have willfully infringed, whereas if you intentionally make no attempt to avoid infringing, your infringement is deemed to have been an innocent mistake. Crazy but true. > The problem that began this is when someone puts roadblocks in the way of > what works. There may be very good reasons for this policy that you call a roadblock. And we only have the Original Poster's word that he is not allowed to install pexpect. That could be his misunderstanding, or perhaps he can't be bothered going through the process to get approval. In fairness, some places do make that process rather gruelling... in a previous position, I worked with a client whose change request process for installing new software on a production server could easily take three or four months for approval to come through, if it was given at all. Now, you might be tempted to roll your eyes and call that bureaucracy gone mad, but they had very good reasons for that level of caution and conservativeness. A colleague got a figurative spanking after he accidentally brought their production server down (fortunately only for ten minutes, although that was ten minutes too long) by rolling out a buggy "bug fix" directly onto the production server without testing it on a staging server first, or getting approval for the change. https://i.chzbgr.com/full/7756111616/hED5FBCC9/ > If someone for example wants to be able to use something as trivial as > math.pi but for some reason won't load the math module, you could > suggest they look up the value of pi to umpteen decimal places and > create an object called math Perhaps a class) containing nothing but a > value called pi [...] > Or, I suggest you can copy the real math module into the same place. > You may want to edit it with a comment. So rather than adding a single constant, you're going to risk infringing the copyright and moral rights of other programmers by copying a 75 kilobyte C library that you don't need, just to get the value of pi which you could legally and easily copy from your calculator or Google in about five seconds. Are you being paid by the hour? *wink* > But, yes, bad example as pretty much any implementation of python will > include the math module as it is standard. Indeed. Let's take a better example: the pexpect library. The OP is not able (not permitted? not physically able? can't be bothered?) to install the pexpect library. So your advice for him is to... install the pexpect library, potentially ignoring its licence terms, making a copy of the source (hoping that its all Python and not C that needs compiling) and edit the source to "add a comment" (saying what?). I think you haven't really considered that if the OP is not able to install the pexpect library, he probably won't be able to copy it into his application either. To say nothing of the ethical issues of copying software without obeying the licence terms. Fortunately pexpect itself is licenced under a very permissive licence that allows copying with (almost) no restriction: https://github.com/pexpect/pexpect/blob/master/LICENSE but as a general matter of principle, suggesting people just copy the source code they want and stick it in their application is rather risky and
Re: [Tutor] Regarding Python api script
CCing the list, please use Reply All when responding to the tutor list.
On 05/12/2018 03:44, Ravi Kumar wrote:
> Yes thats right I want to extract the xml and store into database(SQL
> Server) and I will have to cteate a new table
>
> Here is the sample output I am getting similarly there bulk data which
> I want to store in database format is as shown below
>
>
> b'[{"deviceSerial":"Q2XD-333X-G8Q8","occurredAt":1537565.640085,"type":"802.11
> association","details":{"radio":"1","vap":"0","clientMac":"C8:21:6679:B6:16","channel":"44","rssi":"57","aid":"31645681"}},{"deviceSerial":"Q2XD-97gX-G8Q8","occurredAt":153765.700095,"type":"WPA
> deauthentication","details":{"radio":"1","vap":"0","clientMac":"C621:58:79:B6:16","aid":"316681"}},{"deviceSerial":"Q2XD-97gX-G8Q8","occurredAt":1563369.780085,"type":"WPA
> deauthentication","details":{"radio":"1","vap":"0","clientMac":"C8:21:58:9:B6:16","aid":"31645681"}},{"deviceSerial":"Q297JX-G8Q8"
>
>
> Please let me whether this can be formatted into json in the code
It looks to me like it is already in JSON format.
It is a list of objects.
The json module will let you extract the objects into Python data objects.
> and also any other tips or links to refer if available to store in
> database
Do you know SQL?
If so using the Python DBAPI is very easy.
If not you will need to learn some basic SQL.
You can try reading the database topic in my Python tutorial(see below)
which is based on SQLite rather than SQL Server but should be 90%
compatible.
--
Alan G
Author of the Learn to Program web site
http://www.alan-g.me.uk/
http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld
Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos
___
Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Borrowing free code
On 05/12/2018 06:14, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, Dec 04, 2018 at 11:43:05PM +, Alan Gauld via Tutor wrote: >> On 04/12/2018 19:31, Avi Gross wrote: >> >>> But some packages are simply python code that you can >>> simply insert into your own python files. >> >> If they are fully public domain that's probably true. > > Almost nothing younger than 70 years is in the public domain. True and anything not public domain throws up lots of issues as you point out! :-) > Copyright infringement is typically handled through the civil courts: You say that as if "civil courts" were somehow not like higher courts but in these parts there is no distinction except in the processes used. They hold the same weight and its all considered criminal activity. > If you have a valid licence to use and copy the software, and you obey > the licence terms, then you are in no danger of being prosecuted for > copyright infringement because you are licenced to do so. But it depends on the copyright. You may be free to use it provided you include the original copyright/license notice, or you may only need to give accreditation (possibly in some fixed format), or maybe you can just use it. Its all very murky and you need a lawyer to sort it out. And that's really the point I was making. Avi's suggestion is technically correct but if used in any piece of production software can lead to a world of pain. > Regardless of the licence, you must obey the conditions And that was my point. It's misleading to say on a beginners list that you can just copy code into your own files. Its much more complicated than that. > In a practical sense, copying trivial amounts of code from software > licenced under the MIT licence, or similar, would be highly unlikely to > get you sued. Agreed, especially if its for private or limited use. If released into the wider market then its a differentstory. And some companies (I know of two at least) actively police the market (Git hub and source forge inclyded) for corporate code being abused(even if it's been GPL'd) > Another factor may be that, regardless of the *actual* legal risk, some > employers may not allow copying or use of (some or all) FOSS software > even if licenced, because they may fear the unknown, Again true and was the case in my old company. To use FOSS code we had to jump through several hoops with the company lawyers. It had to be a major bit of work to make that worthwhile! > Bottom line: yes, you can legally copy FOSS software, under certain > conditions, and need not fear being prosecuted. Yes, the point being you need to find out what the conditions are. And there are many permutations. > (Actually, you could even copy closed-source proprietary software, if > you have a licence allowing you to do so.) True. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Beginners Book, Python and PyScripter
On 04/12/2018 23:52, James Stapleton-Cotton wrote: > USERs-MacBook-Pro:~ user$ python hello.py > python: can't open file 'hello.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory You need to provide the full path to the Python file. > I previously created a python file called 'hello.py' using the PyCharmEdu > editor (as instructed). This file is saved in my 'Documents' in a folder > called 'Pycharm Projects' So you would have needed to type user$ python "~/Documents/Pycharm Projects/hello.py" > to the original, 'PycharmProjects'.] Note that here you omit the space. The OS is very particular about such details, you need to get it exactly right. (Although in bash using the tab key will usually fill things in the way you need it) > 'hello.py' file into the tmp folder and attempted the above process of > 'running' the 'python hello.py' file from the terminal, however the same > result occurred. Again you needthe patg: user$ python /tmp/py/hello.py The other option is to change directory to where the code is and then just specify the name: user$ cd /tmp/py user$ python hello.py Should work too. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Any 'graphical' ways of learning Python
On 05/12/2018 00:39, Matthew Polack wrote: > Can anyone recommend any ways of integrating 'graphics' but in a simpler > way. > Have you considered the turtle module. Its limited to drawing shapes but does give some immediate results. You can of course create functions to draw more sophisticated shapes etc. And you write the code in an ordinary IDE/editor so its a good transition from fully graphical scratch to fully text mode Python. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Any 'graphical' ways of learning Python
Hi All, We're using Python with our Year 9 and 10 students to teach programming. I've started with basic console programming...doing simple games like a quiz game etc. Students always seem to like 'graphics'..one of the reasons things like 'Scratch' are so popular in schools is because of the ready made GUI. My concern with things like 'Scratch' and 'Game Engines' is that perhaps kids can miss out on learning core fundamentals...but can appreciate some visuals can be very motivating... Can anyone recommend any ways of integrating 'graphics' but in a simpler way. I've had some experience with TKinter...(which is still quite a jump for beginners)also can see that 'Pygame' might offer some of this... also have seen some tutorials on Udemy that encourages using the 'Turtle'. Does anything else come to find for helping kids stay engaged when they start to get tired of just text based console programming? Thanks for any suggestions. Matthew Polack | Teacher -- **Disclaimer: *Whilst every attempt has been made to ensure that material contained in this email is free from computer viruses or other defects, the attached files are provided, and may only be used, on the basis that the user assumes all responsibility for use of the material transmitted. This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately by return email or telephone +61 3 5382 2529** and destroy the original message.* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Beginners Book, Python and PyScripter
Thank you Adam.
I am currently going through the book, 'A Byte of Python' - found here -
https://python.swaroopch.com.
On pages 29-30 it writes about 'Using A Source File', creating a file
called '/tmp/py' on a Mac OS using the 'bash-terminal' and running the
saved PyCharm file, 'hello.py'. I type 'mkdir /tmp/py' into the terminal
and press return. This supposedly creates a new folder. I type 'mkdir
/tmp/py' a second time and press return as so:
USERs-MacBook-Pro:~ user$ mkdir /tmp/py
mkdir: /tmp/py: File exists
This shows that the file is indeed created and 'exists'. In the next
instructed step (typing 'python hello.py' into the terminal) there shows an
error as such:
USERs-MacBook-Pro:~ user$ mkdir /tmp/py
mkdir: /tmp/py: File exists
USERs-MacBook-Pro:~ user$ python hello.py
python: can't open file 'hello.py': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
I previously created a python file called 'hello.py' using the PyCharmEdu
editor (as instructed). This file is saved in my 'Documents' in a folder
called 'Pycharm Projects' [I tried changing the location of the file to
'/tmp/py', however this created an error during my 'print' function -
print("hello world") - in the editor, therefore I changed the location back
to the original, 'PycharmProjects'.]
I have found the /tmp/py folder within my 'Users' folder. I dragged the
'hello.py' file into the tmp folder and attempted the above process of
'running' the 'python hello.py' file from the terminal, however the same
result occurred.
Could you please help clarify where I am going wrong in the instructed
process given by the book mentioned above.
Regards
On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 9:16 PM Adam Eyring wrote:
> I haven't gone through many python books, but have been using a copy of
> Automating the Boring Stuff with Python. It covers lists, dictionaries,
> scraping data from websites, etc.
> https://automatetheboringstuff.com/
> The PDF is free.
>
> Adam
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 1:09 PM James Stapleton-Cotton
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Mats and Steven. I'm back on track now with a different tutorial
>> which has lead to me to the relevant coding tools.
>> https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers
>> https://python.swaroopch.com
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 4:04 PM Mats Wichmann wrote:
>>
>> > On 12/3/18 3:35 AM, James Stapleton-Cotton wrote:
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > On this page (
>> > >
>> >
>> http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english3e/way_of_the_program.html
>> > )
>> > > - a book for learning Computer Science using Python - I am directed
>> to (
>> > > http://code.google.com/p/pyscripter) in order to access the
>> appropriate
>> > > program development environment, PyScripter. I have downloaded the
>> latest
>> > > version of Python from Python.org and PyScripter from a site that I am
>> > > directed to from the original site mentioned in the beginning of this
>> > email
>> > > - (https://sourceforge.net/projects/pyscripter/files/), however I
>> can't
>> > > seem to be able to run PyScripter on my Mac.
>> >
>> > it looks like from the project's own description that PyScripter is
>> > intended solely for the Windows environment.
>> >
>> > But there are a TON of other IDE products, free and commercial, out
>> > there, many of which do run on the Mac.
>> >
>> > This may be information overload, but try looking here:
>> >
>> > https://wiki.python.org/moin/IntegratedDevelopmentEnvironments
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
>> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>> >
>> ___
>> Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
>> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
>>
>
___
Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Copyleft
Alan, Just a reminder. I am NOT suggesting the first way to solve a problem is what I described. I am saying that sometimes a roadblock (real or imagined) can be gotten around using methods like that. Agreed. There are copyrights that have to be considered, albeit often SMALL amounts are considered OK. Attribution is a good idea in general. The problem that began this is when someone puts roadblocks in the way of what works. If someone for example wants to be able to use something as trivial as math.pi but for some reason won't load the math module, you could suggest they look up the value of pi to umpteen decimal places and create an object called math Perhaps a class) containing nothing but a value called pi This might even satisfy other code they have imported that expects to be able to invoke math.pi. But if that other code does an import too, then you might need to create an (almost) empty file called math.py containing pi=3.1415926535... Just to make the rest work. Or, I suggest you can copy the real math module into the same place. You may want to edit it with a comment. But, yes, bad example as pretty much any implementation of python will include the math module as it is standard. Your post does remind me that there are many versions of copyright including some with the silly naming of "copyleft" that allow rather free use but with limits. They may charge large businesses or government agencies. They may demand you leave in some text as in comments or not make changes or notify them to get permission so they can keep track or ... I brought up some questions a while ago that boiled down to how a program can know what is already available on the machine the code is being run on. Clearly if you use an unfamiliar package, one solution would be to bring the needed files with you in the distribution of the program. Yes, it may not be the latest or greatest, but you can imagine many ways where it can conditionally fall back on the copies included if a regular import fails. This may be one reason someone would be asked to limit their code to the standard distribution. -Original Message- From: Tutor On Behalf Of Alan Gauld via Tutor Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 6:43 PM To: tutor@python.org Subject: Re: [Tutor] Borrowing free code On 04/12/2018 19:31, Avi Gross wrote: > But some packages are simply python code that you can simply insert > into your own python files. If they are fully public domain that's probably true. If they are copyright (even if open/free) you would be potentially liable for prosecution since you are copying someone else's work. Even if it is open source then at the very least you should include a comment to the effect that the code is based on, say, M Palin's file parrot.py or whatever. > And, yes, this means you do not get updates if the module changes. And this is a big drawback for any non trivial code unless you are a significantly better programmer than whoever wrote it in the first place. (Since understanding somebody else's code is much harder than understanding your own!) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
