Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 10/10/18 20:54, Mats Wichmann wrote: >>> This is actually the concept of test driven development (TDD), which I'm >>> not a huge proponent of personally, but kind of useful for this: >> >> I'm curious: What are the things you find less than satisfactory for TDD? > "TDD as religion" seems to me to lead to an absence of thinking about > overall system design, and system testing. An excess focus on the unit, I'll +1 that. I believe in TDD in principle - or more accurately I believe in thorough unit testing. Whether the testing drives the development is another story with pros and cons of its own. But the biggest downside of TDD, as often preached, is too strong a focus on unit tests. There then comes an assumption that if all the units work then the system must work. Which is not true at all. Not even close. So unit tests are essential, but they are a small part of the overall testing regime needed to deliver any significant system. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:09 PM Mats Wichmann wrote: > This is actually the concept of test driven development (TDD), which I'm > not a huge proponent of personally, but kind of useful for this: I'm curious: What are the things you find less than satisfactory for TDD? -- boB ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 10/10/2018 10:46 AM, Alan Gauld via Tutor wrote: > On 10/10/18 10:53, Mariam Haji wrote: >> ...my current challenge >> with the projects bit is how to pseudo-code and which approach to use as I >> am not very familiar with the entire python syntax and how I can use it > > And that's the whole point of doing projects. You need to > really be comfortable with the basics of breaking a problem > down into code sized chunks and debugging basic syntax > before you start thinking about mo9re advanced stuff. > > Think of a regular task you could automate, or invent > a game, whatever takes your fancy. Then work on it and > as you get stuck send your code here and we will try > to help you fix it. > > Remember keep it simple to start with. Even just copying > the files in a work folder to a backup folder, or a > little music or photo catalogue tool. > > And start small, get the basics working before adding > extra features - test each feature as you add it, don't > wait till you have a mountain of code to debug. > This is actually the concept of test driven development (TDD), which I'm not a huge proponent of personally, but kind of useful for this: - write a test for some behavior you need, and get the test "working" so that it fails because you don't have the code for the behavior yet - code up the behavior until the test passes - rinse, repeat it really forces you not to write things in too complex a way up front! ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 10/10/18 10:53, Mariam Haji wrote: >...my current challenge > with the projects bit is how to pseudo-code and which approach to use as I > am not very familiar with the entire python syntax and how I can use it And that's the whole point of doing projects. You need to really be comfortable with the basics of breaking a problem down into code sized chunks and debugging basic syntax before you start thinking about mo9re advanced stuff. Think of a regular task you could automate, or invent a game, whatever takes your fancy. Then work on it and as you get stuck send your code here and we will try to help you fix it. Remember keep it simple to start with. Even just copying the files in a work folder to a backup folder, or a little music or photo catalogue tool. And start small, get the basics working before adding extra features - test each feature as you add it, don't wait till you have a mountain of code to debug. -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
apart from already said, see popular python projects, and read the source as you would read a book. you'll discover amazing tricks, it'll broaden your horizon. hanging around those who achieved a good level will make you level up. Abdur-Rahmaan Janhangeer Mauritius ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
Thank you all for the above tips. I actually did python 2 a friend sent it to me. And my current challenge with the projects bit is how to pseudo-code and which approach to use as I am not very familiar with the entire python syntax and how I can use it and as well as python algorithms. So like I get a problem to create a simple loop or remove duplicates from a list and that just doesn't process in my head and I always end up having to google, then build from there. But thank you, I guess i just have to be patient it's been 3 months since I started coding and development I am more of a front-end developer. I guess I just need to learn how to break down the problems and know what to use where. On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:44 PM Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 10/10/18 02:22, boB Stepp wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 6:54 PM Mariam Haji > wrote: > >> > >> Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard by Zed.A > Shaw and I am looking for recommendations on what to follow next or what > book to try next to advance my python skills to intermediate level. > > > > If you are a fan of Zed Shaw's approach, I noticed while at Barnes & > > Noble a while back that he has released a sequel to the book you > > cited, but only for the Python 3 version. You may be interested in > > that. > > > > But I imagine taking time to imagine, detail and write the code for > > projects would help you the most, as the others have said. > > > > > > After the disgraceful way that Zed Shaw wrote about Python 3 > https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/nopython3.html I wouldn't touch > his stuff with a 100 foot long disinfected barge pole. Just a few > months after this article he came out with the Python 3 book you > reference above, presumably because he was losing cash. > > -- > My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask > what you can do for our language. > > Mark Lawrence > > ___ > Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org > To unsubscribe or change subscription options: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor > -- *Regards,* *Mariam.* ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 10/10/18 02:22, boB Stepp wrote: On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 6:54 PM Mariam Haji wrote: Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard by Zed.A Shaw and I am looking for recommendations on what to follow next or what book to try next to advance my python skills to intermediate level. If you are a fan of Zed Shaw's approach, I noticed while at Barnes & Noble a while back that he has released a sequel to the book you cited, but only for the Python 3 version. You may be interested in that. But I imagine taking time to imagine, detail and write the code for projects would help you the most, as the others have said. After the disgraceful way that Zed Shaw wrote about Python 3 https://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/nopython3.html I wouldn't touch his stuff with a 100 foot long disinfected barge pole. Just a few months after this article he came out with the Python 3 book you reference above, presumably because he was losing cash. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 6:54 PM Mariam Haji wrote: > > Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard by Zed.A Shaw > and I am looking for recommendations on what to follow next or what book to > try next to advance my python skills to intermediate level. If you are a fan of Zed Shaw's approach, I noticed while at Barnes & Noble a while back that he has released a sequel to the book you cited, but only for the Python 3 version. You may be interested in that. But I imagine taking time to imagine, detail and write the code for projects would help you the most, as the others have said. -- boB ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 10/09/2018 06:06 PM, Alan Gauld via Tutor wrote: > On 09/10/18 20:09, Mariam Haji wrote: >> Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard> by Zed.A Shaw >> and I am looking for recommendations on what >> to follow next or what book to try next > > The main thing is to write a lot of code, so think of a > project and build it. The experience of designing code > and writing it, testing it and debugging it is worth > far more than reading another book. > > If you get stuck ask here. Include any error messages > you may get. > > Once you have written a couple of useful programs > and maybe identified a specific area of interest > (Web, games, Desktop, OS, etc) look for a book that > covers those areas. > > > If all else fails you could try Python Projects by > yours truly & Laura Cassell. It covers the basics > of OS, databases, GUIs and web... :-) > > +1 "Write a lot of code" Once you're doing that, there are plenty of resources for unraveling what you run into, including here :) There's a kind of cool video series which unfortunately has restricted availability - it's called Code Clinic, on lynda.com. https://www.lynda.com/SharedPlaylist/3bd14e75-f001-4f05-a34c-169289d7a29a the concept here is someone has thought of a series of achievable projects you can work on, and they've done one for each of a whole bunch of programming languages, Python definitely included. Sometimes "write a lot of code" sounds great, but what am I going to write? It's a subscription service that costs, and also is included if you have a LinkedIn premium membership, but you can get a month's free trial, so it just might be worth a look in. If you know another language well, and it's included, it might be an interesting comparison to see how an expert solves the problem in that language vs. the Python approach (after you've tried your own, of course). ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
On 09/10/18 20:09, Mariam Haji wrote: > Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard> by Zed.A Shaw > and I am looking for recommendations on what > to follow next or what book to try next The main thing is to write a lot of code, so think of a project and build it. The experience of designing code and writing it, testing it and debugging it is worth far more than reading another book. If you get stuck ask here. Include any error messages you may get. Once you have written a couple of useful programs and maybe identified a specific area of interest (Web, games, Desktop, OS, etc) look for a book that covers those areas. If all else fails you could try Python Projects by yours truly & Laura Cassell. It covers the basics of OS, databases, GUIs and web... :-) -- Alan G Author of the Learn to Program web site http://www.alan-g.me.uk/ http://www.amazon.com/author/alan_gauld Follow my photo-blog on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alangauldphotos ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
[Tutor] Advanced python recommendations
Hi guys, I am on the last exercises of learn python the hard by Zed.A Shaw and I am looking for recommendations on what to follow next or what book to try next to advance my python skills to intermediate level. Thank you in advance. Regards, Mariam ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
