[Tutor] newbie Questions
Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? i heard Django is important? f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Hi Matthew, On 16 July 2012 13:09, Matthew Ngaha chigga...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: Well firstly you should note you're asking this on a Python mailing list so you're likely to see some Python bias here. :) That being said: a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? It's true that Python is more general than PHP. So, while PHP generally is almost exclusively focused on web development, Python is a far mor generally useful programming language that happens to be able to used in a web context if so desired. So it depends on what you mean by limited really. There are probably more PHP websites out there than Python based ones. Does that make Python more limited? Perhaps not. You need to probably be more specific. b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? It depends on what the job is. In general however I'd cautiously say yes. Python can get the job done as good as any in most cases. c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? Impossible to say without knowing what book you worked through and testing you. d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? Probably yes. But this is true of most programming languages... If you're going to do web development you will need to learn all there is to know about how browsers and web servers funtion, how they exchange requests and responses and everything else related to this (e.g. cookies etc). Even if a web framework or language takes care of a lot of these details for you, you'll still need to get to a point where you actually understand how everything works together IMHO. i heard Django is important? Django is a web framework for/written in Python. If you want to do websites with Python it's a good option, although there are others such as Turbogears, Web2Py. See for example: http://is.gd/fo1FZ6 f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? Well, first to note that MySQL doesn't belong to PHP. MySQL is a seperate project and is used in many contexts quite apart from PHP. It can be easily used from Python as well. Django similarly as metioned is a web framework that can use several database back-ends, including (but not limited to) MySQL. For example it can also use Postgresql, SQLite Oracle. You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. Right very much depend on your requirements. That said, I'd prefer Python over PHP any day. But then, I would say that. :) since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? Just say thank you when you feel you want to by emailing the list as you've just done. :-) Hope that helps a bit. Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Hi again Matthew, I forgot to include the following link which I originally thought to include, which is one guy's set of (IMHO very cogent) criticisms against PHP as programming language: http://is.gd/z1POXC Hopefully it gives you something else to think about regarding the PHP vs Python question apart from just whether doing websites in it is easy. Walter ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Probably the single biggest 'problem' with Python for web development, in my opinion, is that while a lot of web hosts have all sorts of PHP templates or frameworks installed and ready for easy deployment... Python options seem to be a bit sparser. Individual hosts may vary, but thats the overall sense of things that I've gotten Please note I'm not saying that there are fewer Python options overall, or that its in any way inferior... just a matter of market penetration. PHP has been one of the big dogs in open-source web development for a while, merits or warts aside. Python might be arguably 'better' in various ways, but momentum in the market place is hard to ignore. I'm guessing your friend 'sees' more PHP out there than Python too, hence his recommendations. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Walter Prins wrote: Hi again Matthew, I forgot to include the following link which I originally thought to include, which is one guy's set of (IMHO very cogent) criticisms against PHP as programming language: http://is.gd/z1POXC Hopefully it gives you something else to think about regarding the PHP vs Python question apart from just whether doing websites in it is easy. I read that article recently and recommend it as well. I used to think that PHP was just fine... but since reading that article (and several related ones), I've since revised my opinion. I would now tell someone to learn any language besides php. -Wayne ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Wayne Werner wa...@waynewerner.com wrote: On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Walter Prins wrote: Hi again Matthew, I forgot to include the following link which I originally thought to include, which is one guy's set of (IMHO very cogent) criticisms against PHP as programming language: http://is.gd/z1POXC Hopefully it gives you something else to think about regarding the PHP vs Python question apart from just whether doing websites in it is easy. I read that article recently and recommend it as well. I used to think that PHP was just fine... but since reading that article (and several related ones), I've since revised my opinion. I would now tell someone to learn any language besides php. My take on this depends upon the background (and goal) of the new learner. In this list, and among people who care about professional software development I'm sure python would win the question. But for someone with a passing curiosity about 'what is programming?', and 'can I make my own website?', he might be better served to learn a little php coding (along with html and maybe css). I say this because, although python is really straightforward to learn as a first language, or as a language to learn in order to understand computer science concepts, I think it has a higher barrier to entry than cobbling together some php and html in a text editor and copying it into a directory that lets apache serve up php to a web browser. This might spur the learner to dig deeper. And that is where python will prove a better fit. -- Joel Goldstick ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Matthew Ngaha wrote: Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: What do you want to do? Do you want to program in a clean, fun language? Or do you want to find it easy to get a low-paying coding job? (Admittedly, low-paying is relative -- slinging PHP code may be at the bottom of the programming totem pole, but it's better than slinging hamburgers at McDonalds.) There are more PHP jobs available than Python jobs. But there are also more PHP developers than Python developers, because every doofus with a copy of Idiots Guide To Idiot Programming thinks they can code in PHP :) Seriously, you will be competing with a million other PHP coders, and ten million more in India willing to work for $10 an hour. *And* using a horrible language. a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? Absolutely not. Python has many powerful web development systems: Django, Zope, Plone, MoinMoin, Trac, Pylons, TurboGears, and my favourite (for what little it's worth), CherryPy. More here: http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebProgramming/ The one limitation is that while nearly all hosting providers supply PHP by default, only a few supply Python. b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? The opposite: some systems can get the job done almost as well as Python. c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? If I tie two pieces of short string together, will it be as long as a long piece of string? :) d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? Tutorials are great, but nothing beats programming. Program program program. Even if your programs are never finished, just keep coding. e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? i heard Django is important? Django is one out of many web frameworks. If you don't like Django, there are alternatives. f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? No, and no. Django is something like an application-builder for the web, using Python. MySQL is a database which you can use from any programming language, including PHP and Python. There are many other databases, ranging from SQLite to Oracle's monster database systems. Python can talk to (nearly) them all. You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. You will be a better programmer if you expose yourself to multiple different languages and programming paradigms. It's like being a cook: the world-class chefs learn many different styles of cooking, and are equally at home cooking Italian, Chinese or Cajun, and can invent new fusion recipes that combine the best of different cultures. Average chefs can grill a pretty good steak, and absolutely nothing else. since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? Dibs on your first born child!!! But seriously, just remember that this is a community staffed by volunteers. Some day, you can give back to the community by helping others just as you were helped. -- Steven ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Matthew Ngaha chigga...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? PHP will get you from 0 to website by the first page of your first tutorial. That's very attractive if you're interested in web programming. Most likely, if you use Python, you'll learn how to use the language more generally, before learning how to apply the language to a website. However, in my experience (I learned PHP a long time ago and Python a few years ago) Python gives you the most reward. I've used Python for website building, but also lots of other useful applications. b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? It depends upon the job. If you plan on work as a programmer/software engineer, you will need to learn many languages. Yes, hammers can be used to put in screws and you could probably figure out how to use a screwdriver to put in a nail, but really, you're going to be successful if you have both a hammer and a screwdriver in your toolbox. Java, C, Python, C++, each have their own uses. However, (and this may be a biased assessment) PHP is more like a hammer with its head removed and a screwdriver duct-taped on it. Sure, you can use it, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. The languages which I would say are closest to Python in terms of where they are put to use are Perl and Ruby. My advice is this: give them each a shot (the first couple pages of a tutorial shouldn't take more than a few hours) and see which makes you feel the most comfortable. c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? Code, code, code. Programming is a practice. You'll learn the most by doing and researching solutions for specific problems you are encountering. Then, read blog posts, watch PyCon videos, look at the mailing list etc... Just expose yourself to the language and community and learn through osmosis. e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? i heard Django is important? Django is just one way to do Python web development. It's hugely useful for some things and terribly useless for others. There are plenty of other ways to do web development. f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? As plenty of people have said, Django is a way to make websites while MySQL is a database system. You can actually use MySQL with Django. You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Thanks guys, i didnt think i would get so many kind and helpful responses. I am so grateful:x. I have read each and every reply and i am now very confident in the direction i need to take. Everything is a lot clearer now. Even though i'm new to programming, i am very intrigued by it and want to dedicate a good portion of my time to it, and by reading the replies, i know ive made the right choice in choosing Python over PHP:) To answer a question on what was more important, a job that pays low, or to learn good clean coding.. My answer is I want to devote my time in it for a love of programming and to gain a deeper understanding on it. the money part is not as important:)The book i am currently reading is Python Programming for the absolute beginner. I will save this mail in a special place on my hard drive:) i really appreciate it guys:) On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Alexandre Zani alexandre.z...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Matthew Ngaha chigga...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? PHP will get you from 0 to website by the first page of your first tutorial. That's very attractive if you're interested in web programming. Most likely, if you use Python, you'll learn how to use the language more generally, before learning how to apply the language to a website. However, in my experience (I learned PHP a long time ago and Python a few years ago) Python gives you the most reward. I've used Python for website building, but also lots of other useful applications. b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? It depends upon the job. If you plan on work as a programmer/software engineer, you will need to learn many languages. Yes, hammers can be used to put in screws and you could probably figure out how to use a screwdriver to put in a nail, but really, you're going to be successful if you have both a hammer and a screwdriver in your toolbox. Java, C, Python, C++, each have their own uses. However, (and this may be a biased assessment) PHP is more like a hammer with its head removed and a screwdriver duct-taped on it. Sure, you can use it, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. The languages which I would say are closest to Python in terms of where they are put to use are Perl and Ruby. My advice is this: give them each a shot (the first couple pages of a tutorial shouldn't take more than a few hours) and see which makes you feel the most comfortable. c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? Code, code, code. Programming is a practice. You'll learn the most by doing and researching solutions for specific problems you are encountering. Then, read blog posts, watch PyCon videos, look at the mailing list etc... Just expose yourself to the language and community and learn through osmosis. e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? i heard Django is important? Django is just one way to do Python web development. It's hugely useful for some things and terribly useless for others. There are plenty of other ways to do web development. f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? As plenty of people have said, Django is a way to make websites while MySQL is a database system. You can actually use MySQL with Django. You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
I would just like to add that I am a web developer and I left PHP for Python. I left PHP because it was not as powerful server side (Cron Jobs and Such) and I wanted to possibly create desktop applications, more recently Android Apps via SL4A and IPhone Apps via pyjamas. PHP is a limited language although there have been attempts at making it work for desktop apps,it just was not designed as a generally use language like Python. But the choice is yours and the path for Python in web development may be a little more trickier than PHP; but when you want to do more than web development you will realize Python is the way to go. Also just one more note Python code is so much easier to read than PHP, and the language as a whole is much more consistent, thanks PEP 8. On 07/16/2012 03:54 PM, Wayne Werner wrote: On Mon, 16 Jul 2012, Walter Prins wrote: Hi again Matthew, I forgot to include the following link which I originally thought to include, which is one guy's set of (IMHO very cogent) criticisms against PHP as programming language: http://is.gd/z1POXC Hopefully it gives you something else to think about regarding the PHP vs Python question apart from just whether doing websites in it is easy. I read that article recently and recommend it as well. I used to think that PHP was just fine... but since reading that article (and several related ones), I've since revised my opinion. I would now tell someone to learn any language besides php. -Wayne ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] newbie Questions
Check out http://www.udacity.com/ Enroll in few courses - to begin with, check http://www.udacity.com/view#Course/cs101/CourseRev/apr2012/Unit/671001/Nugget/675002 On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 5:09 AM, Matthew Ngaha chigga...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm new to Python and Programming in general. I've started out with Python for beginners, and so far so good. My friend who i might add, is not a programmer but has had experience in the world of programming (i dont know how much but he claims a lot), has told me to forget about Python and focus on PHP. He knows i studied a HTML and CSS course and told me for the direction i'm going in, Python is not needed and won't give me all the options or variety PHP can. Thats he's opinion, i'd rather make my own mind up, but its lead me to these questions out of curiousity: a) at this early stage i dont exactly know what web options are:( but is Python limited when it comes to matters relating to Web options/developing? b) Are there better options, or can Python get the job done as good as any? c) after completing and understanding a beginner's book, would i be at intermediate level, or still below? d) Would i need a more advanced tutorial, what do you advise after finishing a beginners course? e) And finally, are there other essential things i must learn after Python? i heard Django is important? f) is Django the equivelent to PHP's MySql? You dont have to answer all questions. Just answering one would help me greatly in my future decisions, as i want to commit fully to the right programming language. since this isnt a forum, how can i thank everyone for helping? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
