Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
My mother calls earlier today and says 'Well, David...I see you didn't get the Tonight Show again'... On Thursday, April 4, 2013 4:26:32 PM UTC-4, PGage wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Kevin M. drunkba...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Letterman discussed things during his desk segment following the first commercial break, and his Top 10 list was Things we'll miss about Jay Leno. Worth a look-see. He also had a few monologue jokes about it, and in general had a jolly Dave-time with it. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Letterman discussed things during his desk segment following the first commercial break, and his Top 10 list was Things we'll miss about Jay Leno. Worth a look-see. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com wrote: Letterman discussed things during his desk segment following the first commercial break, and his Top 10 list was Things we'll miss about Jay Leno. Worth a look-see. He also had a few monologue jokes about it, and in general had a jolly Dave-time with it. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
I've known him 38 years, he said. I've known Jay Leno for 38 years, thank you. I don’t know what aspect of that you’re applauding, but thank you. ... So now he’s out again, but going out on top. So congratulations to Jay, a job well done. ... But good luck to Jay. I know he’ll be out on the road, getting it done and taking care of business and congratulations on a nice long run there at the ‘Tonight Show,’ if in fact you’re not coming back.” On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:26 PM, PGage pga...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.comwrote: Letterman discussed things during his desk segment following the first commercial break, and his Top 10 list was Things we'll miss about Jay Leno. Worth a look-see. He also had a few monologue jokes about it, and in general had a jolly Dave-time with it. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Carter at the NYThttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/03/business/media/jimmy-fallon-said-to-have-extended-nbc-contract.html?ref=media_r=0says a contract extend for Fallon has been finalized... and a source confirms same to THRhttp://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/source-jimmy-fallon-closes-nbc-432587 . -- BOB -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
I have to say, at this point, it is the network who cried wolf. I've ceased having any interest in Leno and Fallon. What does tick me off, however is the move to New York, though not for any reasons provided. When Conan was given the Tonight Show, his Late Show crew either stayed to work with Fallon or traveled to LA to work with him. No layoffs. When Leno retook the Tonight Show, Conan took his crew to TBS (after taking them on the road). Again, no layoffs. Now, when Leno leaves and Fallon gets the show, the entire Tonight Show crew in Los Angeles (many of whom have been there for decades), is going to get laid off. The GOP tosses around the acronym RINO. Well, NBC needs to start using TSINO because the only thing getting retained of a legacy program will be its name. So while people are commenting that this time NBC might be able to make a transition successfully, I just wince because it isn't a transition at all; it is a gut shot to apx. 150 people and their families, several of whom I know and have worked with. The focus in the media will always be on the hosts. Both Jay and Jimmy earn millions of dollars a year, but the people getting shafted are the blue collar, behind-the-scenes staff, so from my perspective, this is actually the worst Tonight Show related move NBC has made since they censored Jack Parr's WC sketch and forced him to walk off the show. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
While I agree that lots of people are affected by decisions like this and not just the multimillionaire hosts, I think you are assuming several things that, at least as far as I have read, have not been said. In particular, while it seems reasonable to guess that Fallon will keep much of his current staff around rather than bring Leno's staff to NYC, has anyone actually said this? More importantly, I think there is a good chance that Late Night with __ will move to California, to avoid booking conflicts if nothing else. Doesn't it seem likely that this show would use some or all of the current Leno crew? I'm not sure I understand how a change like this could avoid affecting Leno's entire crew, assuming Leno is actually not going to continue with a show. How do you think they could avoid this situation? d On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say, at this point, it is the network who cried wolf. I've ceased having any interest in Leno and Fallon. What does tick me off, however is the move to New York, though not for any reasons provided. When Conan was given the Tonight Show, his Late Show crew either stayed to work with Fallon or traveled to LA to work with him. No layoffs. When Leno retook the Tonight Show, Conan took his crew to TBS (after taking them on the road). Again, no layoffs. Now, when Leno leaves and Fallon gets the show, the entire Tonight Show crew in Los Angeles (many of whom have been there for decades), is going to get laid off. The GOP tosses around the acronym RINO. Well, NBC needs to start using TSINO because the only thing getting retained of a legacy program will be its name. So while people are commenting that this time NBC might be able to make a transition successfully, I just wince because it isn't a transition at all; it is a gut shot to apx. 150 people and their families, several of whom I know and have worked with. The focus in the media will always be on the hosts. Both Jay and Jimmy earn millions of dollars a year, but the people getting shafted are the blue collar, behind-the-scenes staff, so from my perspective, this is actually the worst Tonight Show related move NBC has made since they censored Jack Parr's WC sketch and forced him to walk off the show. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
They will have just under a year to get their ducks in a row then. That's pretty good lead time anywhere else. Few of them are contract players, so if they find something, they can jump. I know production in LA is slowing down, so I feel for those who will have a problem finding a job in Burbank. But I really don't think this is a bad move business-wise on Comcast's part. They're moving away from Burbank, closer to Comcast's HQ of Philadelphia on a show that will now have a huge tax break thanks to New York state. It's not Steve Allen or Johnny's Tonight anymore...but is it Dave Garroway's Today? Hell, is it even Bryant Gumbel's? On 4/3/13, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say, at this point, it is the network who cried wolf. I've ceased having any interest in Leno and Fallon. What does tick me off, however is the move to New York, though not for any reasons provided. When Conan was given the Tonight Show, his Late Show crew either stayed to work with Fallon or traveled to LA to work with him. No layoffs. When Leno retook the Tonight Show, Conan took his crew to TBS (after taking them on the road). Again, no layoffs. Now, when Leno leaves and Fallon gets the show, the entire Tonight Show crew in Los Angeles (many of whom have been there for decades), is going to get laid off. The GOP tosses around the acronym RINO. Well, NBC needs to start using TSINO because the only thing getting retained of a legacy program will be its name. So while people are commenting that this time NBC might be able to make a transition successfully, I just wince because it isn't a transition at all; it is a gut shot to apx. 150 people and their families, several of whom I know and have worked with. The focus in the media will always be on the hosts. Both Jay and Jimmy earn millions of dollars a year, but the people getting shafted are the blue collar, behind-the-scenes staff, so from my perspective, this is actually the worst Tonight Show related move NBC has made since they censored Jack Parr's WC sketch and forced him to walk off the show. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- +++ Joe Coughlin http://www.twitter.com/inturnaround -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com wrote: I have to say, at this point, it is the network who cried wolf. I've ceased having any interest in Leno and Fallon. What does tick me off, however is the move to New York, though not for any reasons provided. When Conan was given the Tonight Show, his Late Show crew either stayed to work with Fallon or traveled to LA to work with him. No layoffs. When Leno retook the Tonight Show, Conan took his crew to TBS (after taking them on the road). Again, no layoffs. Now, when Leno leaves and Fallon gets the show, the entire Tonight Show crew in Los Angeles (many of whom have been there for decades), is going to get laid off. (SNIP) I think I might be more irritated if I were Conan, who was forced to bring his entire staff across country, only to have them all get unceremoniously fired. If NBC had allowed Conan to do the Tonight Show from NY the transition would have been better in a number of ways. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
I appreciate your concern for Burbank and the Tonight Show staffers, and I think at this point in US history all of us know at some level the devastating impacts of losing a job. Without minimizing that, the move to NYC will also be a welcome boon to roughly the same number of people, in the same industry, there. I don't think the impact on Burbank or the specific staff can be a determining factor for NBC about its strategy. I am less skeptical than you about the Late Night move to SoCal - I think it is all but a certainty. Lorne will just exchange producing duties of LN with the Tonight Show. But I think there are real questions about the wisdom of the underlying strategy here. I don't think we can say NBC is clearly being stupid by moving Leno out early in favor of Fallon, but your suggestion that they are confusing long term strategy with impulsive desperation is certainly plausible. I was obviously a big critic of NBC's treatment of Conan, but behind that I have always thought their original mistake was the initial decision to move Leno out of the Tonight Show before his time. It does seem odd that one of the few time periods NBC still rules (are they still ahead in the evening news?) is the one they seem so determined to screw around with; one might think they would let the 11:35 pm slot take care of itself for a while and devote their long term programing genius to prime time (or morning). Fallon, unlike Conan, is not threatening to go anywhere, and it is unlikely that the Winter Olympics is going to make a big enough difference in the ratings launch for Fallon that it is worth giving Leno the bum's rush. Let the dude play out his contract and retire with some dignity at the end of the summer. Is that really so hard? Paradoxically (because NBC is doing all of this putatively to counter=program against him) I think the real winner here is Kimmell. He will now have LA to himself at 11:35. He has the perfect persona for that town - snarky enough not to be seen as a sycophant, but savvy enough to indirectly kiss the right asses - and now hip enough to be a place where celebs who want to present themselves to the under-40s want to be seen. Fallon meanwhile will be fighting it out directly with not only Dave, but Stewart and Colbert too, not to mention the sloppy seconds from the morning shows, and even a little bit from SNL ( though I guess we will be getting a lot of cross promotion there). I am about a bizillion times more likely to watch the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon than I was Jay Leno (because I just constitutionally can not stomach more than 10 seconds of Leno on that show), but that does not mean I think this is a good move, either ethically or strategically. On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com wrote: Deep breath... and... The local CBS OO here in LA did a decent piece about how Jay's firing (if we're going to call what happened to Conan a firing, we must also call what is happening to Jay a firing) will impact Burbank. NBC sold the Burbank studios a few years ago and moved most everything except the Tonight Show to Universal Studios. That dealt a harsh blow to Burbank. Even if Late Night moves to Southern California, which I'd be skeptical of since it sounds like Lorne Michaels will now be EP of every NBC late night program, they won't go to Burbank -- they'd operate from the Universal lot. Unions in this area are funky, which is a nice way of saying they do not play well with each other and have the oddest factions and rivalries. Consequently, union guys who worked on an all-TV lot like NBC Burbank are unlikely to be able to easily transition to a film TV lot like Universal. Many behind-the-scenes guys at NBC are in their 50s... or older (that studio had a much higher retention rate of personnel than the average), who are less likely to get hired in an industry that values low salary requirements more than experience. The net result being roughly 170 Tonight Show staffers (that's the number from KCBS) will be out of work. The mayor of Burbank was interviewed, and he seemed absolutely crushed. He pointed out the ripple effect on the city losing such a show (after all, he experienced it do a lesser degree when Conan moved it, and The Jay Leno Show lacked the same draw). Local businesses are gonna close. Real estate prices are going to drop. The former NBC studios will likely be knocked down in a few years. Someone asked in this thread what alternatives NBC had. Well, earlier threads have hashed and rehashed what NBC has done right and wrong with late night programing over the last several years, and I think the solution exists in long-term thinking. The Fallon move seems like a long-term strategy on its face, but I believe otherwise. To me the move smacks of corporate lackeys having a knee-jerk reaction to senior executives who parrot the phrase make it skew younger over and over again. It is the only reason why NBC would
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:20:49 AM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: On Mar 25, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Greg Diener skyki...@yahoo.comjavascript: wrote: On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:29:40 PM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. *When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook,* WAIT WHAT? I don't watch Big Jaw's awful show to keep my sanity intact but please explain what happened with this. The overly short version is that the night of Sandy Hook, Leno came out to a traditional opening, made a brief mention of the incident, thoughts and prayers, then dove right into the comedy. Leno is a comedian. He does not do anything that is not focused on getting a laugh well. But the key was that Leno at least knew this was a weak spot for him and did what made sense for him. If a host is uncomfortable with a particular area, they can avoid it. There's no rule that says a presidential candidate has to appear on a late night program, nor that the host must invite a candidate on. To pass judgment like that is annoying. To do anonymously is just a gutless cheap shot that Carter shouldn't have put in his article. Wow what a jerkoff. If you want to see someone who can handle how to do handle those sorts of topics, just look at Ferguson or Dave's great 9/11 monologue on how to handle serious situations. More proof Big Jaw couldn't fill or even fit the shoes of Johnny. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:20:49 AM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: On Mar 25, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Greg Diener skyki...@yahoo.comjavascript: wrote: On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:29:40 PM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. *When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook,* WAIT WHAT? I don't watch Big Jaw's awful show to keep my sanity intact but please explain what happened with this. The overly short version is that the night of Sandy Hook, Leno came out to a traditional opening, made a brief mention of the incident, thoughts and prayers, then dove right into the comedy. Leno is a comedian. He does not do anything that is not focused on getting a laugh well. But the key was that Leno at least knew this was a weak spot for him and did what made sense for him. If a host is uncomfortable with a particular area, they can avoid it. There's no rule that says a presidential candidate has to appear on a late night program, nor that the host must invite a candidate on. To pass judgment like that is annoying. To do anonymously is just a gutless cheap shot that Carter shouldn't have put in his article. Wow what a jerkoff. If you want to see someone who can handle those sorts of topics, just look at Ferguson or Dave's great 9/11 monologue on how to handle serious situations. More proof Big Jaw couldn't fill or even fit the shoes of Johnny -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:20:49 AM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: On Mar 25, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Greg Diener skyki...@yahoo.comjavascript: wrote: On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:29:40 PM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. *When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook,* WAIT WHAT? I don't watch Big Jaw's awful show to keep my sanity intact but please explain what happened with this. The overly short version is that the night of Sandy Hook, Leno came out to a traditional opening, made a brief mention of the incident, thoughts and prayers, then dove right into the comedy. Leno is a comedian. He does not do anything that is not focused on getting a laugh well. But the key was that Leno at least knew this was a weak spot for him and did what made sense for him. If a host is uncomfortable with a particular area, they can avoid it. There's no rule that says a presidential candidate has to appear on a late night program, nor that the host must invite a candidate on. To pass judgment like that is annoying. To do anonymously is just a gutless cheap shot that Carter shouldn't have put in his article. Wow what a jerkoff. If you want to see someone who can handle those sorts of topics, just look at Ferguson or Dave's great 9/11 monologue on how to handle serious situations. More proof Big Jaw couldn't fill or even fit the shoes of Johnny -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:51 AM, Greg Diener skykid3...@yahoo.com wrote: Wow what a jerkoff. If you want to see someone who can handle how to do handle those sorts of topics, just look at Ferguson or Dave's great 9/11 monologue on how to handle serious situations. More proof Big Jaw couldn't fill or even fit the shoes of Johnny. Not trying to defend Leno, but this notion that he can't handle those topics seems a bit off. I would state he very consciously chooses not to handle them, for which he can be criticized, but not that he can't. In interviews, Leno has stated he doesn't view the Tonight Show as a place for grand social commentary or contemplative reflection; it is a place to poke fun at the day's headlines, so he veers away from the tough stuff, not because he is incapable of it, but because it isn't in keeping with his incarnation of the show. I was too young to be watching Johnny Carson when John Lennon was shot or during the Iran hostage situation that resulted in the creation of Nightline on ABC, so I don't know how Johnny handled the somber stuff. What I will say is the one time I personally witnessed Jay Leno be real, he f-ing nailed it. I was an NBC Page at the time (late 1990s) and Leno did his usual monologue, but after the commercial break he was leaning against the front of his desk instead of sitting behind it. Then he did something he rarely does on the Tonight Show -- he looked away from there his producer and head writer are sitting. He faced the audience, and he started talking. His mother had passed away the night before. And Jay Leno just talked. He was open and honest and real and everything he is accused of not being. You could have heard a pin drop as Leno spoke for the entire segment about his memories of his mother, and everyone in the room felt connected to him at that moment. I only cite this example to say he can do that sort of thing, and when he does it is something to behold. But he just doesn't use the Tonight Show like that very often. So if anyone feels the Tonight Show ought to be the place where we come to heal the wounds of the day, then I suppose Leno can be criticized for not wanting the show to be that. But I'd refrain from stating he can't do that. -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Not trying to defend Leno, but this notion that he can't handle those topics seems a bit off. I would state he very consciously chooses not to handle them, for which he can be criticized, but not that he can't. In interviews, Leno has stated he doesn't view the Tonight Show as a place for grand social commentary or contemplative reflection; it is a place to poke fun at the day's headlines, so he veers away from the tough stuff, not because he is incapable of it, but because it isn't in keeping with his incarnation of the show. (SNIP) He faced the audience, and he started talking. His mother had passed away the night before. And Jay Leno just talked. He was open and honest and real and everything he is accused of not being. You could have heard a pin drop as Leno spoke for the entire segment about his memories of his mother, and everyone in the room felt connected to him at that moment. I only cite this example to say he can do that sort of thing, and when he does it is something to behold. But he just doesn't use the Tonight Show like that very often. So if anyone feels the Tonight Show ought to be the place where we come to heal the wounds of the day, then I suppose Leno can be criticized for not wanting the show to be that. But I'd refrain from stating he can't do that. I remember that show (when he talked about his mom dying - I still checked on Leno in those days) and it was refreshing, though I had some quibbles with it that are not worth mentioning here. But really, if you can talk from the heart about your mother dying then you are really pretty far gone. I don't think you can use that as a basis for saying that he has any real gift for dealing with serious issues. And it is not really true that he has a policy against dealing with serious issues. He has commented on 9-11 and natural disasters and other things on the show, and he has interviewed lots of politicians. His claim (and I have heard him make it also) that the Tonight Show is not a political platform is BS - he played a significant role in launching his friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign for governor of California. Leno may have seen that as simply helping out a pal, but the recall of Gray Davis was one of the most naked, brass knuckled acts of political aggression in the modern history of California, and Leno used his Tonight Show platform to play a non-insignificant role in it. We have noted often that when Leno is not wearing his Tonight Show persona he can be a decent and genuine and more likable guy. But the point here is, does he generate that kind of authenticity in his role as Late Night Host during a time of serious national conversation or mourning? The answer is, whether or not he is capable of it, he almost never does it, and when he tries he is clearly inferior to Letterman, which is no real humiliation since Dave is a master at it. I think the fallacy in this thread is the assumption that late night talk show hosts should be picked on the basis of their ability to help the nation process big serious issues. That may be one aspect of the job description occasionally, but nobody is going to be good at all aspects of that job, and, God willing, we won't need Jimmy Fallon to help us deal with too many post 9-11 type attacks down the road. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
I fear I've done some derailing I didn't mean to. My attack was on the original quote in the article, and then to answer Greg's answer. I think we're all pretty much in agreement the idea that a late night host has to have some sort of gravitas is a load of crap. My apologies. On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 2:32 PM, PGage pga...@gmail.com wrote: I remember that show (when he talked about his mom dying - I still checked on Leno in those days) and it was refreshing, though I had some quibbles with it that are not worth mentioning here. But really, if you can talk from the heart about your mother dying then you are really pretty far gone. I don't think you can use that as a basis for saying that he has any real gift for dealing with serious issues. And it is not really true that he has a policy against dealing with serious issues. He has commented on 9-11 and natural disasters and other things on the show, and he has interviewed lots of politicians. His claim (and I have heard him make it also) that the Tonight Show is not a political platform is BS - he played a significant role in launching his friend Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign for governor of California. Leno may have seen that as simply helping out a pal, but the recall of Gray Davis was one of the most naked, brass knuckled acts of political aggression in the modern history of California, and Leno used his Tonight Show platform to play a non-insignificant role in it. We have noted often that when Leno is not wearing his Tonight Show persona he can be a decent and genuine and more likable guy. But the point here is, does he generate that kind of authenticity in his role as Late Night Host during a time of serious national conversation or mourning? The answer is, whether or not he is capable of it, he almost never does it, and when he tries he is clearly inferior to Letterman, which is no real humiliation since Dave is a master at it. I think the fallacy in this thread is the assumption that late night talk show hosts should be picked on the basis of their ability to help the nation process big serious issues. That may be one aspect of the job description occasionally, but nobody is going to be good at all aspects of that job, and, God willing, we won't need Jimmy Fallon to help us deal with too many post 9-11 type attacks down the road. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
A longer piece from Carterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/business/media/nbcs-fallon-for-leno-tonight-shift-is-a-bet-on-future.html?pagewanted=all_r=1;from Thursday... note who the real king of late-night is in the seventh graf... -- BOB -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Wait - so THIS guy is going to be the new host of Tonight? http://www.aim.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/tivo.jpg On Monday, March 25, 2013 10:42:58 AM UTC-4, Bob in Jersey wrote: A longer piece from Carterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/business/media/nbcs-fallon-for-leno-tonight-shift-is-a-bet-on-future.html?pagewanted=all_r=1;from Thursday... note who the real king of late-night is in the seventh graf... -- BOB -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
There are so many things wrong with this Howard Kurtz article about Jay Leno, I don't know where to start. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/opinion/kurtz-jay-leno/index.html -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
You could have stopped the sentence after Kurtz. David From: Kevin M. drunkbastar...@gmail.com To: tvornottv@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon There are so many things wrong with this Howard Kurtz article about Jay Leno, I don't know where to start. http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/25/opinion/kurtz-jay-leno/index.html -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Bob in Jersey bob.in.jer...@juno.comwrote: A longer piece from Carterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/business/media/nbcs-fallon-for-leno-tonight-shift-is-a-bet-on-future.html?pagewanted=all_r=1;from Thursday... note who the real king of late-night is in the seventh graf... -- BOB I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook, what does it matter if Kimmel or Fallon or whomever can ask tough questions. Is it just me, or has Bill Carter lost just a touch off his fastball? On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 1:14 PM, M-D November mdnovem...@gmail.com wrote: Wait - so THIS guy is going to be the new host of Tonight? The folks at TiVo *wish* that was so. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
- Original Message - From: David Bruggeman You could have stopped the sentence after Kurtz. The horror The horror _ _ |_|_ Brad Beam- Belle WV |_|_ http://www.facebook.com/74bmw -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:29:40 PM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Bob in Jersey bob.in...@juno.comjavascript: wrote: A longer piece from Carterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/25/business/media/nbcs-fallon-for-leno-tonight-shift-is-a-bet-on-future.html?pagewanted=all_r=1;from Thursday... note who the real king of late-night is in the seventh graf... -- BOB I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. *When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook,* WAIT WHAT? I don't watch Big Jaw's awful show to keep my sanity intact but please explain what happened with this. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
On Mar 25, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Greg Diener skykid3...@yahoo.com wrote: On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:29:40 PM UTC-4, Joe Hass wrote: I cruised along fine until the last graf: “I do think it will be a challenge to keep the Leno ratings,” said a longtime executive who has worked with several of the big late-night hosts. “I always wonder how the younger hosts will handle being in the heat of a presidential election where they have to be accountable and ask tough questions.” What utter bullshit. When Leno is incapable of handling a situation like Sandy Hook, WAIT WHAT? I don't watch Big Jaw's awful show to keep my sanity intact but please explain what happened with this. The overly short version is that the night of Sandy Hook, Leno came out to a traditional opening, made a brief mention of the incident, thoughts and prayers, then dove right into the comedy. Leno is a comedian. He does not do anything that is not focused on getting a laugh well. But the key was that Leno at least knew this was a weak spot for him and did what made sense for him. If a host is uncomfortable with a particular area, they can avoid it. There's no rule that says a presidential candidate has to appear on a late night program, nor that the host must invite a candidate on. To pass judgment like that is annoying. To do anonymously is just a gutless cheap shot that Carter shouldn't have put in his article. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
If the CBS morning show can be taken as a model, 90 minutes of network time is about 45 minutes. I thought Letterman had the worst ratio of program time to ad time, but I think the morning show is even worse. However you slice it, the 90-minute slot requires 150% as much content as the 60-minute one. I doubt the extra 50% will be better than the current hour's worth. My plan for the Post-Dave transition at CBS is to bring in someone new to take over at 11:35 (I don't have any real suggestions - I don't think C-Ferg would work, I want the Comedy Central guys to stay where they are - how about someone like Tina Fey?) and then give Dave a 30 Minute, Bob Costas like show at 12:35, which he could tape several of in one day in advance just interviewing interesting people. While I like your idea for Later with Dave Letterman, I don't imagine him staying on the air when he leaves the Late Show. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Too true, but that might not be the case with Fallon. Remember, he's done the 90min format before (SNL), and given his propensity to include sketches and games, the extra time might serve him well. (Also, some of the 12:30 block could be handed over to an extended musical guest.) Filling five hours a week is hard enough. Another two and a half is unlikely to improve anything. SNL is a different enough animal that it doesn't really apply here. Others have mentioned the authors, raconteurs, and other guests who'd fill the other half-hour. As Joe points out, television's different now, and there are many alternatives for viewers who aren't interested in those guests, or in the music act. There are probably economies of scale in extending a late night show to 90 minutes, but the likely loss of audience will make it much less attractive. I should note that Leno didn't mention anything about the future of the show tonight before he brought out his first guest. He did have a standard monologue joke about trying to bring NBC back from the dead. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Re: Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon
Back in the '60s, the lead star on the show would be scheduled to appear within that last half hour. Basically to keep the viewers watching all 90 minutes. On Mar 20, 11:24 pm, Mark Jeffries spotligh...@gmail.com wrote: Well, considering that the usual guests in the last half-hour of 90 minute Carson shows were female singers (I was going to use another term, but I didn't want Melissa to jump on me) and authors, those groups might be glad for a 90-minute Tonight show, but considering that those kind of female singers only exist in jazz clubs these days and that Stewart and Colbert (and Terry Gross on public radio) seem to have become the bully pulpits for authors, maybe not. Mark Jeffries Saints Spotlight Editor spotligh...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:36 PM, David Bruggeman bru...@yahoo.com wrote: I vaguely remember watching Sajak at 90 minutes and he often struggled during the last half hour. Speaking of ratings drop-offs, Kimmel has done repeats on Fridays for a while, even at the new time slot. I know four days a week used to be the norm for Dave (and possibly a good stretch of Conan) at 12:35. How does this affect ratings comparisons with shows that run 5 days a week? David -- *From:* Tom Wolper twol...@gmail.com *To:* TV or not TV tvornottv@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Bill Carter says Tonight will move back to NY, with Fallon On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 4:52 PM, David Bruggeman bru...@yahoo.com wrote: EW adds to the speculation by indicating going back to 90 minutes has been discussed. Which hasn't been done since early Pat Sajak episodes. When Bill Carter was pushing his last book He was on Bill Simmons' podcast. He said that the networks had a real concern that ratings fall to nothing after 1 AM and it hurts the host of any 12:35 show. First he proposed a 90 minute 11:35 show as in the olden days and then as he and Simmons talked about it they recalled how Carson ran out of energy and how belabored the last half hour felt. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TV or Not TV group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TVorNotTV group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
