Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
I suspect it more came down to Stapleton vs. Hagman than Stapleton vs. Klugman. And a factor we haven't mentioned: They wouldn't have gone with five dead white guys. On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 12:28 PM, PGage wrote: > On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:36 AM, David Lynch wrote: > >> On 22 September 2013 07:14, Jon Delfin wrote: >> >>> Still waiting for an option who's as big a star as Fox, Reiner or >>> Williams >>> >> >> I'd say Penny Marshall is, but the problem is that defining people as >> "big stars" is pretty relative. For the Glee demographic they seem to be >> targeting with the Monteith tribute, I'd be amazed if Rob Reiner has a lot >> of name recognition, and for those that do know him, he's been almost >> exclusively a film director since before they were born. For them, Michael >> J. Fox is that guy who was on a sitcom when they were in single-digit ages >> (and I mean Spin City, not Family Ties) and Robin Williams is Mrs. >> Doubtfire and the Genie from Aladdin. >> > > Right. Penny Marshall is almost exactly the same size "star name" as Rob > Reiner - star of 70s sitcom (Marshall actually had top billing on hers, not > a mere supporting player as Reiner was) who then became a feature film > director (granted Reiner has her edged there in terms of number and profile > of films, but his last really high profile film was "The Bucket List" 6 > years ago). > > I think Jon's argument is basically the argument that David Klugman > identified and is arguing against - that Monteith is included instead of > Jack Klugman not based on their relative contributions to television, but > because the producers want to appeal to a younger demographic with at least > one of the special memorials. I think the response to that is not to try to > pretend that there is nobody of equal stature or name recognition to do the > memorial for Klugman, but to simply acknowledge that they are doing a major > television show, and there is no sin in trying to appeal to as broad a > demographic as possible. By definition the memorials will skew to an older > audience, and there is an argument to including a high profile young person > who has tragically died, and whose death will be profoundly significant to > many of the young people who watched that program, when circumstances > warrant. I remember when Pete Duel killed himself during the run of *Alias > Smith and Jones*, a show I really liked as a kid; I was pretty deeply > affected by that. > > Once it is acknowledged that Monteith is on not because of his > contribution to television (or the contribution of his introducers) but > because his death frankly impacted an important segment of viewers in an > important way, then the question becomes, why not just include 6 in the > special memoriam (though then the Larry Hagman boosters would be irate, and > if 7, then some other group), or why did Klugman not rate over one of the > other 4 older deaths: (Goldberg, Winters, Gandolfini and Stapleton). > Winters and Gandolfini seem like no-brainers to include; Goldberg is less > well known, but he is the one who probably benefits the most from a high > profile and compelling presenter, and is the only non-performer. Goldberg > not only ran a couple of successful shows, he was a writer on several > others, and was a mentor for Bill Lawrence (who probably is the one who > should do the memorial, if it were not for name recognition). So, if they > have to limit it to 5 for some reason, I can see how it came down to > Stapleton vs Klugman. Given Klugman's work in early television and his two > very successful series, that should have been a pretty close call - but All > In The Family was such a unique and culturally significant show, and her > work in it so precise and often under-appreciated, that I can see why they > went for her. > > -- > -- > TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "TV or Not TV" group. > To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 8:36 AM, David Lynch wrote: > On 22 September 2013 07:14, Jon Delfin wrote: > >> Still waiting for an option who's as big a star as Fox, Reiner or >> Williams >> > > I'd say Penny Marshall is, but the problem is that defining people as "big > stars" is pretty relative. For the Glee demographic they seem to be > targeting with the Monteith tribute, I'd be amazed if Rob Reiner has a lot > of name recognition, and for those that do know him, he's been almost > exclusively a film director since before they were born. For them, Michael > J. Fox is that guy who was on a sitcom when they were in single-digit ages > (and I mean Spin City, not Family Ties) and Robin Williams is Mrs. > Doubtfire and the Genie from Aladdin. > Right. Penny Marshall is almost exactly the same size "star name" as Rob Reiner - star of 70s sitcom (Marshall actually had top billing on hers, not a mere supporting player as Reiner was) who then became a feature film director (granted Reiner has her edged there in terms of number and profile of films, but his last really high profile film was "The Bucket List" 6 years ago). I think Jon's argument is basically the argument that David Klugman identified and is arguing against - that Monteith is included instead of Jack Klugman not based on their relative contributions to television, but because the producers want to appeal to a younger demographic with at least one of the special memorials. I think the response to that is not to try to pretend that there is nobody of equal stature or name recognition to do the memorial for Klugman, but to simply acknowledge that they are doing a major television show, and there is no sin in trying to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible. By definition the memorials will skew to an older audience, and there is an argument to including a high profile young person who has tragically died, and whose death will be profoundly significant to many of the young people who watched that program, when circumstances warrant. I remember when Pete Duel killed himself during the run of *Alias Smith and Jones*, a show I really liked as a kid; I was pretty deeply affected by that. Once it is acknowledged that Monteith is on not because of his contribution to television (or the contribution of his introducers) but because his death frankly impacted an important segment of viewers in an important way, then the question becomes, why not just include 6 in the special memoriam (though then the Larry Hagman boosters would be irate, and if 7, then some other group), or why did Klugman not rate over one of the other 4 older deaths: (Goldberg, Winters, Gandolfini and Stapleton). Winters and Gandolfini seem like no-brainers to include; Goldberg is less well known, but he is the one who probably benefits the most from a high profile and compelling presenter, and is the only non-performer. Goldberg not only ran a couple of successful shows, he was a writer on several others, and was a mentor for Bill Lawrence (who probably is the one who should do the memorial, if it were not for name recognition). So, if they have to limit it to 5 for some reason, I can see how it came down to Stapleton vs Klugman. Given Klugman's work in early television and his two very successful series, that should have been a pretty close call - but All In The Family was such a unique and culturally significant show, and her work in it so precise and often under-appreciated, that I can see why they went for her. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
On 22 September 2013 07:14, Jon Delfin wrote: > Still waiting for an option who's as big a star as Fox, Reiner or > Williams > I'd say Penny Marshall is, but the problem is that defining people as "big stars" is pretty relative. For the Glee demographic they seem to be targeting with the Monteith tribute, I'd be amazed if Rob Reiner has a lot of name recognition, and for those that do know him, he's been almost exclusively a film director since before they were born. For them, Michael J. Fox is that guy who was on a sitcom when they were in single-digit ages (and I mean Spin City, not Family Ties) and Robin Williams is Mrs. Doubtfire and the Genie from Aladdin. -- David J. Lynch djly...@gmail.com -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
Still waiting for an option who's as big a star as Fox, Reiner or Williams On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 11:55 PM, M-D November wrote: > I was thinking one of the Marshalls or Neil Simon. Or, if you wanted to > invoke Quincy, Glen A Larson. > > -- > -- > TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "TV or Not TV" group. > To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
I was thinking one of the Marshalls or Neil Simon. Or, if you wanted to invoke Quincy, Glen A Larson. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Jon Delfin wrote: > I've seen similar arguments favoring other late celebs over Monteith. I > suspect the decision came down to which tributes would make for better > television. I'm given to understand that the featured five will be heralded > with fanfare in the form of other celebs (MJFox, Rob Reiner, Robin > Williams). What attention-getting big name could they have gotten to talk > about Klugman? > Penny Marshall? Or, I guess maybe even more apt, her brother (I thought of Penny with the Rob Reiner cue)? -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
I've seen similar arguments favoring other late celebs over Monteith. I suspect the decision came down to which tributes would make for better television. I'm given to understand that the featured five will be heralded with fanfare in the form of other celebs (MJFox, Rob Reiner, Robin Williams). What attention-getting big name could they have gotten to talk about Klugman? On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:06 PM, PGage wrote: > Adam Klugman, one of Jack Klugman's sons, is irritated that the Academy > has decided to bump his dad from the new highlighted memorial in the > broadcast, in favor of Corey Monteith. The Emmy's decided to lift out 5 of > the recently departed for special attention this year - the other four > VIPs, whose credentials are hard to argue, are: Gary David Goldberg, > Jonathan Winters, James Gandolfini and Jean Stapleton. > > > http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/tv/la-et-st-emmys-2013-jack-klugman-cory-monteith-20130920,0,7412808.story > > I knew Adam Klugman tangentially when we were kids, and always loved his > father, and I never saw Monteith's work, so I am a little biased. I don't > think the issue is that Monteith's tragic death was "self-inflicted", but > that Klugman's body of work was just, objectively, so much larger. > > The larger point of course is that it was inevitable when they decided to > do this that they would be offending someone who got bumped down to the > coach-class death reel. In fact, Adam's point that the Emmy's chose > Monteith in a raw grab to attract young viewers is probably not cynical > enough; the whole plan might be a crude attempt to generate controversy and > interest every year in seeing who gets the ultimate Emmy snub. > > -- > -- > TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "TV or Not TV" group. > To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[TV orNotTV] Who Belongs in the VIP Emmy Obits?
Adam Klugman, one of Jack Klugman's sons, is irritated that the Academy has decided to bump his dad from the new highlighted memorial in the broadcast, in favor of Corey Monteith. The Emmy's decided to lift out 5 of the recently departed for special attention this year - the other four VIPs, whose credentials are hard to argue, are: Gary David Goldberg, Jonathan Winters, James Gandolfini and Jean Stapleton. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/tv/la-et-st-emmys-2013-jack-klugman-cory-monteith-20130920,0,7412808.story I knew Adam Klugman tangentially when we were kids, and always loved his father, and I never saw Monteith's work, so I am a little biased. I don't think the issue is that Monteith's tragic death was "self-inflicted", but that Klugman's body of work was just, objectively, so much larger. The larger point of course is that it was inevitable when they decided to do this that they would be offending someone who got bumped down to the coach-class death reel. In fact, Adam's point that the Emmy's chose Monteith in a raw grab to attract young viewers is probably not cynical enough; the whole plan might be a crude attempt to generate controversy and interest every year in seeing who gets the ultimate Emmy snub. -- -- TV or Not TV The Smartest (TV) People! You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TV or Not TV" group. To post to this group, send email to tvornottv@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tvornottv-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tvornottv?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
