Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
On 7.3.2014. 8:21, Dmitry Dulepov wrote: Hi! Pero Peric wrote: ah TYPO3, TYPO3.. 5 millions of features, fluid, space ship enterprises and when it comes to elementary modules like search.. indexed search not good for many pages, mnoGoSearch indexes something i didn't tell him to index, solr probably good but ofcourse java + tomcat bla bla.. What am i left with.. maybe this ke_search but based on experience something is probably wrong there too :-) And we are talking about module that is almost on every site. ah.. Maybe this people that are putting so much effort in things like fluid and space ship enterprises could come down to earth a bit and make some built in fast working search to replace indexed search, but it seems that's not so fancy.. ah.. For mnoGoSearch I had to uses mnoGoSearch'es own indexer, which is not highly customizable. It is a crawler and indexer all-in-one. The problem you described comes from the way mnoGoSearch works. For now I would suggest Solr as a much better alternative. I hate java products that use java but I was able to set up the whole thing in about two hours without any prior experience. It is really not that difficult if you have a little *nix, xml and console skills. Dmitry, belive me, in my enviroment and by enviroment i mean on 39287 different projects, different jobs and poor organization you want things simple as simple they can be so installing java/tomcat on top of all would just be too much. But ok. thx. for advices, i will leave mnoGoSearch as it is or i will try ke_search if i find time. Maybe for some other and bigger sites i'll try solr one time (when something else will come up :-) Regards. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
On 5.3.2014. 14:26, Philipp Gampe wrote: Hi Pero, Pero Peric wrote: Maybe this people that are putting so much effort in things like fluid and space ship enterprises could come down to earth a bit and make some built in fast working search to replace indexed search, but it seems that's not so fancy.. ah. It is not that easy to write a good search engine. On most smaller websites, the search is broken or very slow. On top of that, TYPO3 CMS has a non-trivial content model, which makes searching a very complex topic. Our flexibility bides us in ass here. We know this hurts, but we cannot really do anything about it. Why? Well, there is not predefined way on how the content is rendered on the website. You can use TYPO3 CMS for a fully AJAX website that spits out JSON content or you can create a one page site out of many pages. You can create a traditional site or you can use it for completely non-web publishing processes. The issue here is, that you cannot know (or calculate) how a certain record will be rendered on a website. It might just be places as content object (on a traditional website) or it might not even be rendered at all. It might show up on a different page or even on all pages, because it is directly references via TypoScript (RECORD). It might not even show up at all, because some part of the website is hidden because not link to it is rendered. Essentially you cannot know programmatically, how a record will show up on which URL. And that is what you need to know to write a search. So how does indexed search solves this? It solves it by introducing markers that wrap text that should show up in search and analyzes only fully rendered cached! pages. Why only cached pages? Because the website can be completely different for logged-in users or user with a certain browser or visitors from a certain country or a few docent other conditions. Cached pages must have a finite amount of conditions that can be taken into account for searches as well. How does solr solves this? They allow you to create rules for every kind of record. This results in a very long list of rules and still needs custom code for complex cases. Therefore you can either index mostly static pages witch is almost trivial (indexed_search) or you can use a big solution that needs a complex (and expensive) setup. Of course there are solutions in between like ke_search, but they will not cover every situation. After all it boils down to what record will show up where. Therefore a search is as custom to a site as the template used to render those records. Nobody bother yet enough to write a search engine that is as flexible as templating approach and I am very sure that if someone did, a lot of people would complain that it is sooo complicated to setup. The reason why there is not superdooper search engine is, because nobody has a high quality solution and the core team will not accept another half- backed, half-working pseudo solution. The difference to other CMS is that the content goes to a unknown number of transformation before it is rendered on the website. Therefore it is not enough to know what content is on what page to create a working search. Philipp, thx. for explanation. Web sites i'm working on mostly use text/img content type and tt_news so i don't infact need something ultra complex. I was in search of replacement for indexed search because it was not working good for a 1000+ pages web site so i found mnoGoSearch. It works fine but i don't like this links indexing outside search markers. Maybe i will try ke_search, will see. Regards. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
Hi! Pero Peric wrote: ah TYPO3, TYPO3.. 5 millions of features, fluid, space ship enterprises and when it comes to elementary modules like search.. indexed search not good for many pages, mnoGoSearch indexes something i didn't tell him to index, solr probably good but ofcourse java + tomcat bla bla.. What am i left with.. maybe this ke_search but based on experience something is probably wrong there too :-) And we are talking about module that is almost on every site. ah.. Maybe this people that are putting so much effort in things like fluid and space ship enterprises could come down to earth a bit and make some built in fast working search to replace indexed search, but it seems that's not so fancy.. ah.. For mnoGoSearch I had to uses mnoGoSearch'es own indexer, which is not highly customizable. It is a crawler and indexer all-in-one. The problem you described comes from the way mnoGoSearch works. For now I would suggest Solr as a much better alternative. I hate java products that use java but I was able to set up the whole thing in about two hours without any prior experience. It is really not that difficult if you have a little *nix, xml and console skills. -- Dmitry Dulepov Today is a good day to have a good day. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
Hi! Pero Peric wrote: Hm. I understand it crawls pages by links but why it index links? I see this as two separate processes. mnoGoSearch doesn't :) -- Dmitry Dulepov Today is a good day to have a good day. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
On 5.3.2014. 13:07, Dmitry Dulepov wrote: Hi! Pero Peric wrote: Hm. I understand it crawls pages by links but why it index links? I see this as two separate processes. mnoGoSearch doesn't :) ah TYPO3, TYPO3.. 5 millions of features, fluid, space ship enterprises and when it comes to elementary modules like search.. indexed search not good for many pages, mnoGoSearch indexes something i didn't tell him to index, solr probably good but ofcourse java + tomcat bla bla.. What am i left with.. maybe this ke_search but based on experience something is probably wrong there too :-) And we are talking about module that is almost on every site. ah.. Maybe this people that are putting so much effort in things like fluid and space ship enterprises could come down to earth a bit and make some built in fast working search to replace indexed search, but it seems that's not so fancy.. ah.. regards. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
Re: [TYPO3-english] mnoGoSearch indexing
Hi! Pero Peric wrote: so, does this mean that links are kept although they are outside search markers? mnoGoSearch works by crawling links. So if you only keep the text inside search markers, only pages referred from the main content will be indexed. This means that if you exclude the menu, nothing will be found. So links outside of the content are indexed. -- Dmitry Dulepov Today is a good day to have a good day. ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.typo3.org http://lists.typo3.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english
