Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2016-03-07 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Tom,

On 20 October 2015 at 11:23, Simon Glass  wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> On 20 October 2015 at 09:21, Tom Rini  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 04, 2015 at 05:38:41PM +0100, Simon Glass wrote:
>> > Hi Stephen,
>> >
>> > On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>> > > On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
>> > >> Hi Stephen,
>> > >>
>> > >> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
>> > 
>> >  Hi Stephen,
>> > 
>> >  On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
>> >  
>> >  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Simon,
>> > >
>> > > I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
>> > > packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>> > >
>> > > I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section 
>> > > contained
>> > > CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>> > >
>> > >> [toolchain]
>> > >> root: /
>> > >> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
>> > >> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
>> > >> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
>> > >> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
>> > >> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
>> > >>
>> > >> [toolchain-alias]
>> > >> arm: arm1
>> > >> aarch64: aarch64
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 
>> > > based on
>> > > which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>> > >
>> > > However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
>> > > shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
>> > > buildman
>> > > searches for files named *-gcc:
>> > >
>> > >> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
>> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
>> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
>> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a 
>> > > way to
>> > > tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>> > >
>> > > I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
>> > > different separate directories, and only list one of those 
>> > > directories in
>> > > ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
>> > > (well,
>> > > I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but 
>> > > that's
>> > > really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
>> > > removed
>> > > and re-installed).
>> > >
>> > > I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
>> > > "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value 
>> > > that I
>> > > say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
>> > > defaults,
>> > > but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what 
>> > > you
>> > > want.
>> > 
>> > 
>> >  Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
>> >  course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
>> >  arch).
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
>> > >>> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
>> > >>> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately 
>> > >>> above
>> > >>> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
>> > >>> CROSS_COMPILE
>> > >>> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the 
>> > >>> config
>> > >>> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
>> > >>>
>> >  The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
>> >  .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the 
>> > >>> buildman
>> > >>> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I 
>> > >>> have 3
>> > >>> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I 
>> > >>> want
>> > >>> to use, is there?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In other words, a config file that contains:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> [toolchain]
>> > >>> distro-packages: /usr/bin
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ... finds the following toolchains:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
>> > >>> --list-tool-chains
>> > >>> Scanning for tool chains
>> > >>>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
>> > >>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
>> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
>> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
>> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
>> > >>> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
>> > 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2016-03-06 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Stephen,

On 4 October 2015 at 19:19, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> On 10/04/2015 10:38 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>>> On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
 Hi Stephen,

 On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Simon,
>>>
>>> I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
>>> packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>>>
>>> I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section 
>>> contained
>>> CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>>>
 [toolchain]
 root: /
 arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
 arm1: arm-none-eabi-
 arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
 arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
 arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-

 [toolchain-alias]
 arm: arm1
 aarch64: aarch64
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
>>> which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>>>
>>> However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
>>> shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
>>> buildman
>>> searches for files named *-gcc:
>>>
 - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
>>> tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
>>> different separate directories, and only list one of those directories 
>>> in
>>> ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
>>> (well,
>>> I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
>>> really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
>>> removed
>>> and re-installed).
>>>
>>> I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
>>> "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that 
>>> I
>>> say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
>>> defaults,
>>> but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
>>> want.
>>
>>
>> Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
>> course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
>> arch).
>
>
> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
> CROSS_COMPILE
> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
>
>> The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
>> .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
>
>
> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I 
> want
> to use, is there?
>
> In other words, a config file that contains:
>
> [toolchain]
> distro-packages: /usr/bin
>
> ... finds the following toolchains:
>
> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
> --list-tool-chains
> Scanning for tool chains
>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-20 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Tom,

On 20 October 2015 at 09:21, Tom Rini  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 04, 2015 at 05:38:41PM +0100, Simon Glass wrote:
> > Hi Stephen,
> >
> > On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> > > On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
> > >> Hi Stephen,
> > >>
> > >> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> > >>> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
> > 
> >  Hi Stephen,
> > 
> >  On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Simon,
> > >
> > > I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
> > > packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
> > >
> > > I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section 
> > > contained
> > > CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
> > >
> > >> [toolchain]
> > >> root: /
> > >> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
> > >> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
> > >> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
> > >> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
> > >> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
> > >>
> > >> [toolchain-alias]
> > >> arm: arm1
> > >> aarch64: aarch64
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based 
> > > on
> > > which I wanted to use at a particular time).
> > >
> > > However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
> > > shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
> > > buildman
> > > searches for files named *-gcc:
> > >
> > >> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
> > >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way 
> > > to
> > > tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
> > >
> > > I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
> > > different separate directories, and only list one of those 
> > > directories in
> > > ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
> > > (well,
> > > I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but 
> > > that's
> > > really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
> > > removed
> > > and re-installed).
> > >
> > > I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
> > > "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value 
> > > that I
> > > say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
> > > defaults,
> > > but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what 
> > > you
> > > want.
> > 
> > 
> >  Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
> >  course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
> >  arch).
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
> > >>> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
> > >>> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately 
> > >>> above
> > >>> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
> > >>> CROSS_COMPILE
> > >>> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the 
> > >>> config
> > >>> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
> > >>>
> >  The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
> >  .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the 
> > >>> buildman
> > >>> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 
> > >>> 3
> > >>> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I 
> > >>> want
> > >>> to use, is there?
> > >>>
> > >>> In other words, a config file that contains:
> > >>>
> > >>> [toolchain]
> > >>> distro-packages: /usr/bin
> > >>>
> > >>> ... finds the following toolchains:
> > >>>
> > >>> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
> > >>> --list-tool-chains
> > >>> Scanning for tool chains
> > >>>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
> > >>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
> > >>> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
> > >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
> > >>>  - found 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-20 Thread Tom Rini
On Sun, Oct 04, 2015 at 05:38:41PM +0100, Simon Glass wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> > On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
> >> Hi Stephen,
> >>
> >> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> >>> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
> 
>  Hi Stephen,
> 
>  On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Simon,
> >
> > I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
> > packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
> >
> > I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section 
> > contained
> > CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
> >
> >> [toolchain]
> >> root: /
> >> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
> >> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
> >> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
> >> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
> >> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
> >>
> >> [toolchain-alias]
> >> arm: arm1
> >> aarch64: aarch64
> >
> >
> >
> > (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
> > which I wanted to use at a particular time).
> >
> > However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
> > shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
> > buildman
> > searches for files named *-gcc:
> >
> >> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
> >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
> >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
> >>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
> >
> >
> >
> > If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
> > tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
> >
> > I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
> > different separate directories, and only list one of those directories 
> > in
> > ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
> > (well,
> > I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
> > really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
> > removed
> > and re-installed).
> >
> > I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
> > "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that 
> > I
> > say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
> > defaults,
> > but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
> > want.
> 
> 
>  Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
>  course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
>  arch).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
> >>> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
> >>> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
> >>> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
> >>> CROSS_COMPILE
> >>> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
> >>> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
> >>>
>  The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
>  .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
> >>> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
> >>> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I 
> >>> want
> >>> to use, is there?
> >>>
> >>> In other words, a config file that contains:
> >>>
> >>> [toolchain]
> >>> distro-packages: /usr/bin
> >>>
> >>> ... finds the following toolchains:
> >>>
> >>> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
> >>> --list-tool-chains
> >>> Scanning for tool chains
> >>>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
> >>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
> >>> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
> >>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
> >>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
> >>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK
> >>> Tool chain test:  OK

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-04 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Stephen,

On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>>> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:

 Hi Stephen,

 On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
 wrote:
>
>
> Simon,
>
> I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
> packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>
> I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained
> CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>
>> [toolchain]
>> root: /
>> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
>> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
>> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
>> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
>> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
>>
>> [toolchain-alias]
>> arm: arm1
>> aarch64: aarch64
>
>
>
> (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
> which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>
> However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
> shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
> buildman
> searches for files named *-gcc:
>
>> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>
>
>
> If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
> tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>
> I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
> different separate directories, and only list one of those directories in
> ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
> (well,
> I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
> really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
> removed
> and re-installed).
>
> I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
> "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I
> say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
> defaults,
> but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
> want.


 Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
 course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
 arch).
>>>
>>>
>>> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
>>> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
>>> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
>>> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the CROSS_COMPILE
>>> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
>>> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
>>>
 The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
 .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
>>> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
>>> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I want
>>> to use, is there?
>>>
>>> In other words, a config file that contains:
>>>
>>> [toolchain]
>>> distro-packages: /usr/bin
>>>
>>> ... finds the following toolchains:
>>>
>>> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
>>> --list-tool-chains
>>> Scanning for tool chains
>>>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
>>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
>>> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
>>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
>>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
>>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> Tool chain test:  OK
>>> List of available toolchains (7):
>>> aarch64   : /usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc
>>> arm   : /usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc
>>> (Buildman chose that one, and I think I have no control over that?)
>>> c89   : /usr/bin/./c89-gcc
>>> c99   : 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-04 Thread Stephen Warren
On 10/04/2015 10:38 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> On 3 October 2015 at 20:20, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>> On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
>>> Hi Stephen,
>>>
>>> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
 On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Simon,
>>
>> I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
>> packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>>
>> I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained
>> CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>>
>>> [toolchain]
>>> root: /
>>> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
>>> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
>>> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
>>> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
>>> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
>>>
>>> [toolchain-alias]
>>> arm: arm1
>>> aarch64: aarch64
>>
>>
>>
>> (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
>> which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>>
>> However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
>> shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
>> buildman
>> searches for files named *-gcc:
>>
>>> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
>>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
>>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
>>>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>>
>>
>>
>> If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
>> tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>>
>> I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
>> different separate directories, and only list one of those directories in
>> ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
>> (well,
>> I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
>> really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
>> removed
>> and re-installed).
>>
>> I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
>> "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I
>> say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
>> defaults,
>> but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
>> want.
>
>
> Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
> course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
> arch).


 I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
 environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
 single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
 was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
 CROSS_COMPILE
 environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
 file. In other words, the example content I showed above.

> The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
> .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.


 I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
 config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
 toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I want
 to use, is there?

 In other words, a config file that contains:

 [toolchain]
 distro-packages: /usr/bin

 ... finds the following toolchains:

 [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
 --list-tool-chains
 Scanning for tool chains
- scanning path '/usr/bin'
   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
 (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 Tool chain test:  OK
 List of available toolchains (7):
 aarch64   : /usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc
 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-03 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Stephen,

On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
>>
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>> On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Simon,
>>>
>>> I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
>>> packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>>>
>>> I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained
>>> CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>>>
 [toolchain]
 root: /
 arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
 arm1: arm-none-eabi-
 arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
 arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
 arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-

 [toolchain-alias]
 arm: arm1
 aarch64: aarch64
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
>>> which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>>>
>>> However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
>>> shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that buildman
>>> searches for files named *-gcc:
>>>
 - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
>>> tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
>>> different separate directories, and only list one of those directories in
>>> ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains (well,
>>> I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
>>> really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or removed
>>> and re-installed).
>>>
>>> I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
>>> "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I
>>> say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great defaults,
>>> but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
>>> want.
>>
>>
>> Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
>> course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
>> arch).
>
>
> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the CROSS_COMPILE
> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
>
>> The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
>> .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
>
>
> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I want
> to use, is there?
>
> In other words, a config file that contains:
>
> [toolchain]
> distro-packages: /usr/bin
>
> ... finds the following toolchains:
>
> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
> --list-tool-chains
> Scanning for tool chains
>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
>  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
>   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> Tool chain test:  OK
> List of available toolchains (7):
> aarch64   : /usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc
> arm   : /usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc
> (Buildman chose that one, and I think I have no control over that?)
> c89   : /usr/bin/./c89-gcc
> c99   : /usr/bin/./c99-gcc
> i586  : /usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc
> sandbox   : /usr/bin/./winegcc
> x86_64: /usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc

I wonder if we need an option to specify the full path and avoid the search?

Maybe [toolchain-prefix] ?

Regards,
Simon
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Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-03 Thread Stephen Warren
On 10/03/2015 08:30 AM, Simon Glass wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> On 2 October 2015 at 00:27, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>> On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Stephen,
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren 
>>> wrote:


 Simon,

 I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro
 packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?

 I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained
 CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:

> [toolchain]
> root: /
> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
>
> [toolchain-alias]
> arm: arm1
> aarch64: aarch64



 (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on
 which I wanted to use at a particular time).

 However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs
 shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that buildman
 searches for files named *-gcc:

> - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
>- looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'



 If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to
 tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?

 I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into
 different separate directories, and only list one of those directories in
 ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains (well,
 I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's
 really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or 
 removed
 and re-installed).

 I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify
 "don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I
 say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great defaults,
 but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you
 want.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
>>> course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
>>> arch).
>>
>>
>> I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE
>> environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for
>> single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately above
>> was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the CROSS_COMPILE
>> environment variable would be, rather than directory names, in the config
>> file. In other words, the example content I showed above.
>>
>>> The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
>>> .buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.
>>
>>
>> I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the buildman
>> config file contains a list directories to search within, yet if I have 3
>> toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select which one I want
>> to use, is there?
>>
>> In other words, a config file that contains:
>>
>> [toolchain]
>> distro-packages: /usr/bin
>>
>> ... finds the following toolchains:
>>
>> [swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
>> --list-tool-chains
>> Scanning for tool chains
>>- scanning path '/usr/bin'
>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
>> (That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
>>  - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
>>   - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> Tool chain test:  OK
>> List of available toolchains (7):
>> aarch64   : /usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc
>> arm   : /usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc
>> (Buildman chose that one, and I think I have no control over that?)
>> c89   : /usr/bin/./c89-gcc
>> c99   : /usr/bin/./c99-gcc
>> i586  : /usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc
>> sandbox   : /usr/bin/./winegcc
>> x86_64: /usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc
> 
> I wonder if we need an option to specify the full path and avoid the search?
> 
> Maybe 

Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-01 Thread Stephen Warren

On 10/01/2015 04:59 PM, Simon Glass wrote:

Hi Stephen,

On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren  wrote:


Simon,

I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro packages. 
How do I tell buildman which of those to use?

I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained 
CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:


[toolchain]
root: /
arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
arm1: arm-none-eabi-
arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-

[toolchain-alias]
arm: arm1
aarch64: aarch64



(I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on which 
I wanted to use at a particular time).

However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs shows me 
that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that buildman searches for files 
named *-gcc:


- scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'



If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell 
it which one to use. Am I missing something?

I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into different 
separate directories, and only list one of those directories in ~/.buildman. 
However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains (well, I suppose I 
could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's really fragile 
since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or removed and re-installed).

I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify "don't do 
automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I say". Does that 
sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great defaults, but if it can't be 
overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you want.


Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
arch).


I wasn't necessarily looking for buildman to pick up the CROSS_COMPILE 
environment variable, although that would be a simple solution for 
single-arch builds at least. My mention of CROSS_COMPILE immediately 
above was re: using values that are formatted in the same way as the 
CROSS_COMPILE environment variable would be, rather than directory 
names, in the config file. In other words, the example content I showed 
above.



The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
.buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.


I don't think that gets me what I want. As far as I can tell, the 
buildman config file contains a list directories to search within, yet 
if I have 3 toolchains in a single directory, there's no way to select 
which one I want to use, is there?


In other words, a config file that contains:

[toolchain]
distro-packages: /usr/bin

... finds the following toolchains:

[swarren@swarren-lx1 u-boot]$ ./tools/buildman/buildman \
--list-tool-chains
Scanning for tool chains
   - scanning path '/usr/bin'
  - looking in '/usr/bin/.'
 - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabihf-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./arm-none-eabi-gcc'
(That's 3 AArch32 toolchains found)
 - found '/usr/bin/./winegcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./c89-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc'
 - found '/usr/bin/./c99-gcc'
  - looking in '/usr/bin/bin'
  - looking in '/usr/bin/usr/bin'
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
Tool chain test:  OK
List of available toolchains (7):
aarch64   : /usr/bin/./aarch64-linux-gnu-gcc
arm   : /usr/bin/./arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc
(Buildman chose that one, and I think I have no control over that?)
c89   : /usr/bin/./c89-gcc
c99   : /usr/bin/./c99-gcc
i586  : /usr/bin/./i586-mingw32msvc-gcc
sandbox   : /usr/bin/./winegcc
x86_64: /usr/bin/./x86_64-linux-gnu-gcc
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Re: [U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-10-01 Thread Simon Glass
Hi Stephen,

On Wednesday, 23 September 2015, Stephen Warren  wrote:
>
> Simon,
>
> I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro 
> packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?
>
> I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section contained 
> CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:
>
>> [toolchain]
>> root: /
>> arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
>> arm1: arm-none-eabi-
>> arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
>> arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
>> arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-
>>
>> [toolchain-alias]
>> arm: arm1
>> aarch64: aarch64
>
>
> (I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on 
> which I wanted to use at a particular time).
>
> However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs shows 
> me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that buildman 
> searches for files named *-gcc:
>
>>- scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
>>   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
>>   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
>>   - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'
>
>
> If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to tell 
> it which one to use. Am I missing something?
>
> I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into different 
> separate directories, and only list one of those directories in ~/.buildman. 
> However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains (well, I suppose I 
> could manually mv everything all over the place, but that's really fragile 
> since it'd break any time the package got upgraded or removed and 
> re-installed).
>
> I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify "don't 
> do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that I say". Does 
> that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great defaults, but if it 
> can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know what you want.


Yes I think it would be fine to add an option to use CROSS_COMPILE (of
course it would fail if you tried to build the board with the wrong
arch).

The option other option at present is -G which lets you use multiple
.buildman files. You could have one of these for each toolchain.

Regards,
Simon
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[U-Boot] How do I tell buildman to use a /specific/ toolchain?

2015-09-23 Thread Stephen Warren

Simon,

I have 3 different ARM toolchains installed into /usr/bin via distro 
packages. How do I tell buildman which of those to use?


I had originally thought that ~/.buildman's [toolchain] section 
contained CROSS_COMPILE-like values, so I tried:



[toolchain]
root: /
arm0-not-installed: arm-none-gnueabi-
arm1: arm-none-eabi-
arm2: arm-linux-gnueabihf-
arm3: arm-linux-gnueabi-
arch64: aarch64-linux-gnu-

[toolchain-alias]
arm: arm1
aarch64: aarch64


(I intended to change the "arm: arm1" line to point at arm1/2/3 based on 
which I wanted to use at a particular time).


However, running "buildman --list-toolchains" and re-reading the docs 
shows me that the [toolchain] values are absolute directories that 
buildman searches for files named *-gcc:



   - scanning path 'arm-none-gnueabi-'
  - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/.'
  - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/bin'
  - looking in 'arm-none-gnueabi-/usr/bin'


If buildman finds multiple toolchains, there doesn't seem to be a way to 
tell it which one to use. Am I missing something?


I suppose a solution wouuld be to move the compiler binaries into 
different separate directories, and only list one of those directories 
in ~/.buildman. However, I can't do that for distro-packaged toolchains 
(well, I suppose I could manually mv everything all over the place, but 
that's really fragile since it'd break any time the package got upgraded 
or removed and re-installed).


I think it makes sense to add new syntax into ~/.buildman to specify 
"don't do automagical searching, just use this CROSS_COMPILE value that 
I say". Does that sound reasonable? Automagic stuff makes for great 
defaults, but if it can't be overridden, it sucks when you actually know 
what you want.

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