Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Am 04.08.2012 18:55, schrieb Karl O. Pinc: So perhaps the u-boot list default that has duplicate elimination turned on, where other lists do not, is factor contributing to the confusion. I've never had Some mail-servers have that feature enabled by default too. E.g. cyrus-imapd (called duplicate delivery suppression there). So if you get a mail by cc and from a list, usually the one from list doesn't show up because it is delivered after the cc'ed one. Regards, Alexander ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Dear Karl, In message <1344099312.12337.4@mofo> you wrote: > > the patch was not.) No getting around the moderation > delay, just thought I'd mention it. Perhaps you could > alter the list welcome message to note that the > list is moderated. This won't help; nobody > reads the instructions. :/ But at least you'll > have something to point to if anybody complains. This makes no sense - you will get a welcome message only after subscribing, and moderation hol;ds only posting of unsubscribed senders. Once you are subscribed, your messages go through unfiltered (except if they are too big or get caught by the spam filters). Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de If you use modules, you pay the price. Sane embedded solutions running in "tight" environments don't use modules :-) -- Benjamin Herrenschmidt in <1258234866.2140.451.camel@pasglop> ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
On 08/04/2012 11:58:23 AM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > FYI. I got the above message twice. Probably because you > sent the message To: me and Cc:-ed the list instead of > sending the message To: the list and cc:-ing me. No. I am wrong. I was confused. :-P Sorry. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
On 08/04/2012 08:35:49 AM, Wolfgang Denk wrote: > Your registration in the mailing list has the "nodupes" flag set, > which is documented as: > > Avoid duplicate copies of messages? > > When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a > list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the > mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the > mailing list; select No to receive copies. > > If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you > elect to receive copies, every copy will have a > X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it. > > You selected that you don't want dupes, so you should not complain > that you don't get dupes. FYI. I got the above message twice. Probably because you sent the message To: me and Cc:-ed the list instead of sending the message To: the list and cc:-ing me. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Dear Wolfgang, On 08/04/2012 08:35:49 AM, Wolfgang Denk wrote: > In message <1344041771.12337.2@mofo> you wrote: > > > > The trouble is getting a patch message back from the list when you > > send a patch in. For example I sent > > Why would you want to get your own messages back? You already know > what you sent, don't you? Because I always get all my own messages back, except for patches. Duplicate elimination is different from whether the list sends you back your own messages. > > > <1344017124-5749-1-git-send-email-...@meme.com> > > [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer > > Yes, and as you can see for example from the list archive at gmane > that has been properly deliverd; also your V2 of it: Yes. That was never an issue. (I can see how you might think it is an issue. People say their messages "do not go to the list" because they look in their email inbox and do not see the list sending them the message.) > > The mail logs show the message going out, but nothing > > ever comes back with that message id. > > Why should it? See above. > > > Perhaps it's because git send-email automatically cc-s me, > > so the list decides not to send the patch back? > > I've added myself as a cc to this message to see > > if that matters. > > Your registration in the mailing list has the "nodupes" flag set, > which is documented as: > > Avoid duplicate copies of messages? > > When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a > list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the > mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the > mailing list; select No to receive copies. > > If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you > elect to receive copies, every copy will have a > X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it. > > You selected that you don't want dupes, so you should not complain > that you don't get dupes. Ah, but I didn't "select" this configuration. I got the default configuration without ever knowing what I got. > > > In any case it's not a big deal. It's just, odd. > > It is the configuration you selected. If you don't like it, then go > to the list page, click on "edit options", and change your settings. > Most people prefer it tis way, though. Really, it's more of a problem with _git_ on my end always cc-ing me. Although duplicate elimination on the list side makes sense it the combination of this default and git's behavior that makes for never-before-seen behavior that leads to questions. After all, how often is it that I cc myself when sending email to a list? (If ever, I'd bcc.) It's git's cc-ing that's introducing a new factor and making odd things happen. Come to think of it, most (all?) of the lists I'm subscribed to have duplicate elimination turned off by default. Now that I think of it I was also surprised when my conversations with others that cc-ed the list did not show up on the list -- to be precise, _I_ was not able to see them show up on the list by looking at my email inbox. But that didn't really raise alarm bells in the same way that sending patches and then not "seeing" them on the list raises alarms. Patches represent real work and when they seem to disappear it's disconcerting. Because of the moderation delay (maybe?) by the time u-boot messages start showing up in my inbox I've already forgotten about the cc-ed conversation; but patches are memorable. So perhaps the u-boot list default that has duplicate elimination turned on, where other lists do not, is factor contributing to the confusion. I've never had to think about configuring my list subscriptions. I send email; the list delivers the email to all it's recipients, including me. The operation is very transparent. When things did not work that way on the u-boot list it raised questions. My very first post was a patch. It took me about a month to realize that the patch was received by the rest of the list and by then I'd already re-sent it. If I had confusion and Andy had confusion there must also have been some other people in the past who didn't speak up who had confusion too. Anyway, problem solved. We know what's happening, what happened, and why. You can decide if there's any sort of issue that you want to address by frobbing defaults on your end. I hope this has been more helpful than annoying. Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein P.S. As long as we're on the subject of the list, the moderation delay was initially confusing when sending in my first post. (My first post was actually 2 emails, sent by git send-email --compose, so was 2 emails: a patch and a regular email. The regular email was, after delay, sent back to me by the list, the patch was not.) No getting around the moderation delay, just thought I'd mention it. Perhaps you could alter the list welcome message to note that the list is moder
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Dear Karl, I wrote: > It is the configuration you selected. If you don't like it, then go > to the list page, click on "edit options", and change your settings. > Most people prefer it tis way, though. While you are at it, check if you want to enable the "Receive your own posts to the list?" as well... Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de "Life sucks, but it's better than the alternative." - Peter da Silva ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Dear Karl, In message <1344041771.12337.2@mofo> you wrote: > > The trouble is getting a patch message back from the list when you > send a patch in. For example I sent Why would you want to get your own messages back? You already know what you sent, don't you? > <1344017124-5749-1-git-send-email-...@meme.com> > [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer Yes, and as you can see for example from the list archive at gmane that has been properly deliverd; also your V2 of it: 08/03 "Karl O. Pinc" [U-Boot] [PATCH] README: Add handy kermit primer http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.u-boot/136913 08/03 "Karl O. Pinc" [U-Boot] [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.u-boot/136919 > The mail logs show the message going out, but nothing > ever comes back with that message id. Why should it? > Perhaps it's because git send-email automatically cc-s me, > so the list decides not to send the patch back? > I've added myself as a cc to this message to see > if that matters. Your registration in the mailing list has the "nodupes" flag set, which is documented as: Avoid duplicate copies of messages? When you are listed explicitly in the To: or Cc: headers of a list message, you can opt to not receive another copy from the mailing list. Select Yes to avoid receiving copies from the mailing list; select No to receive copies. If the list has member personalized messages enabled, and you elect to receive copies, every copy will have a X-Mailman-Copy: yes header added to it. You selected that you don't want dupes, so you should not complain that you don't get dupes. > In any case it's not a big deal. It's just, odd. It is the configuration you selected. If you don't like it, then go to the list page, click on "edit options", and change your settings. Most people prefer it tis way, though. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de When all is said and done, more is said than done. ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
On 08/03/2012 05:46:56 PM, Wolfgang Denk wrote: > I have no diea why there are two people (Karl and Any) appear to have > problems with list delivery - I cannot see any such problems. As far > as I can tell, all their messages have been properly delivered to the > list and the archives. I tend to believe these are local problems > on their own end, but without precise error reports I don;t ieen have > a clue what to look for. The trouble is getting a patch message back from the list when you send a patch in. For example I sent <1344017124-5749-1-git-send-email-...@meme.com> [PATCH v2] README: Add handy kermit primer The mail logs show the message going out, but nothing ever comes back with that message id. (Of course I don't see the message id if my system rejects the inbound message, but why would it reject just my patches from the list?) Perhaps it's because git send-email automatically cc-s me, so the list decides not to send the patch back? I've added myself as a cc to this message to see if that matters. In any case it's not a big deal. It's just, odd. If you really care you can look at your logs and watch the above message id come in and what happens to it. Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Dear Graeme Russ, In message <501c4672.7060...@gmail.com> you wrote: > > emails over, I think, about 100kB need approval before being forwarded to > the list. Wolfgang, since these appear to be rather rare, can this limit be > dropped, at least for a little while to test the impact? I see no reason to drop the limit. Moderation takes place several times per day; nobody ever complained to me that his message got delayed for too long. > > I see several patches from you over recent days, including the > > re-submissions, so my guess is the same is happening to you. > > So do I - big thanks for the documentation updates, they all too often get > overlooked. I have no diea why there are two people (Karl and Any) appear to have problems with list delivery - I cannot see any such problems. As far as I can tell, all their messages have been properly delivered to the list and the archives. I tend to believe these are local problems on their own end, but without precise error reports I don;t ieen have a clue what to look for. Best regards, Wolfgang Denk -- DENX Software Engineering GmbH, MD: Wolfgang Denk & Detlev Zundel HRB 165235 Munich, Office: Kirchenstr.5, D-82194 Groebenzell, Germany Phone: (+49)-8142-66989-10 Fax: (+49)-8142-66989-80 Email: w...@denx.de If all the Chinese simultaneously jumped into the Pacific off a 10 foot platform erected 10 feet off their coast, it would cause a tidal wave that would destroy everything in this country west of Nebraska. ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Hi Karl & Andy, On 08/04/2012 06:43 AM, Andy Sharp wrote: > I think it's a matter of the list software isn't sending emails to the > original sender, regardless of the setting for that user. The same > happened to me with a patch set I sent on Wednesday. They all went to the > list, based on looking in the online archive, even though I never got those If you see your email in the archive and/or patchwork (note only patches and comments on patches will make it into patchwork - also that Patchwork will drop patches containing 'funny (non-ASCII)' characters) then the list is processing it correctly. We are currently looking into a home-brew patchwork replacement to augment how we process patches via the mailing list. Comments are appreciated: http://www.denx.de/wiki/view/U-Boot/ToolsPatchTracking > emails in my own mailbox. I also got a couple of weird bounces ... > something about it being a moderated list for about half of the six emails. > Weird. emails over, I think, about 100kB need approval before being forwarded to the list. Wolfgang, since these appear to be rather rare, can this limit be dropped, at least for a little while to test the impact? > I see several patches from you over recent days, including the > re-submissions, so my guess is the same is happening to you. So do I - big thanks for the documentation updates, they all too often get overlooked. Regards, Graeme > > Cheers, > > a > > > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> As a beginner here I have to say it's really >> surprising the way the list disappears patches >> sent to the list. Usually when you send an email >> you expect it to be delivered. >> >> I'm sure you have your reasons for this behavior >> but I thought I'd comment anyway. >> >> As a suggestion, if the patch won't go to the list >> for comment perhaps there's a way to send an >> ack back to the sender to let them know what >> will happen next? >> >> Regards, >> >> Karl >> Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." >> -- Robert A. Heinlein >> >> ___ >> U-Boot mailing list >> U-Boot@lists.denx.de >> http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot >> > > > > ___ > U-Boot mailing list > U-Boot@lists.denx.de > http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot > ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
On 08/03/2012 03:43:50 PM, Andy Sharp wrote: > I think it's a matter of the list software isn't sending emails to > the > original sender, regardless of the setting for that user. It seems only to affect patches sent to the list, not regular emails like this one. I don't think it has to do with the client. git send-email --compose sent a patch and a message and I got the message back on the list but not the patch. > I see several patches from you over recent days, including the > re-submissions, so my guess is the same is happening to you. Cool. Thanks for the ack. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
Re: [U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
I think it's a matter of the list software isn't sending emails to the original sender, regardless of the setting for that user. The same happened to me with a patch set I sent on Wednesday. They all went to the list, based on looking in the online archive, even though I never got those emails in my own mailbox. I also got a couple of weird bounces ... something about it being a moderated list for about half of the six emails. Weird. I see several patches from you over recent days, including the re-submissions, so my guess is the same is happening to you. Cheers, a On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: > Hi, > > As a beginner here I have to say it's really > surprising the way the list disappears patches > sent to the list. Usually when you send an email > you expect it to be delivered. > > I'm sure you have your reasons for this behavior > but I thought I'd comment anyway. > > As a suggestion, if the patch won't go to the list > for comment perhaps there's a way to send an > ack back to the sender to let them know what > will happen next? > > Regards, > > Karl > Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." > -- Robert A. Heinlein > > ___ > U-Boot mailing list > U-Boot@lists.denx.de > http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot > ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
[U-Boot] The way the list manages patch submission
Hi, As a beginner here I have to say it's really surprising the way the list disappears patches sent to the list. Usually when you send an email you expect it to be delivered. I'm sure you have your reasons for this behavior but I thought I'd comment anyway. As a suggestion, if the patch won't go to the list for comment perhaps there's a way to send an ack back to the sender to let them know what will happen next? Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein ___ U-Boot mailing list U-Boot@lists.denx.de http://lists.denx.de/mailman/listinfo/u-boot
