Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
Thank you to Brian for responding as well as everybody else who was joined in on the discussion. You have all reasoned some valid points/issues. I think by posting this it has uncovered some more inherent issues that should be addressed/considered by the U2UG in coming months. I starting writing the below linked "Open Letter" 9 hours after receiving notification of these elections (not bad considering the wide timezone ranges). Understanding that a wide audience wouldn't see it just on my blog, I posted it solely on the mailing list to see 1) how much interest people had in the U2UG elections and 2) How many people would actually see it on what appears to be the main communication channel for U2. Sadly, there would seem to be 2 possible take-aways from this exercise: - The elections would appear to be a token (albeit well-meant) gesture as there is hardly enough time to have meaningful discussions since we haven't seen a single response from any of the candidates at this stage. Or - Maybe the mailing listing is not the 'wide' communication channel it has been touted as; assuming the candidates would want to respond, I can only assume they haven't noticed my questions yet. Now, I don't have a fanciful enough imagination to assume a large portion of the community would be interested in reading my post about the election, but given the numbers from Brian (roughly 3500 members of U2UG), it would seem from the paltry 43 hits (roughly 1.2%, including 4 from subscription channels) that communication via the mailing lists needs to be reconsidered as to its effectiveness. Susan makes a great point on her comment she posted on the post: "...that number one criteria for a board member is willingness to serve. Not just willingness to run for the office, but willingness to make showing up to those every-other-week one hour meetings a priority." While I in no way discount the effort they have/will/are putting in, maybe something to consider for future elections is that the nominees themselves have to start a discussion around why they are nominating for the position. At least this we way we have a demonstration up front that it isn't just a nomination because it is easy to nominate, but they are prepared to make it a priority as well as give us an idea of their intentions. If the public profile of the nominees is higher, wouldn't it stand to reason that community engagement would also be higher? There is still a few hours to go, but my votes will have to stay as "Abstain" since if asked why I nominated one person over another, there is no way I could intelligently answer, hence my vote would be at best naïve. Regards, Dan -Original Message- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dan McGrath Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2011 9:13 PM To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Subject: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment Hi all, I've posted an open letter regarding the U2UG elections to the nominees. I'd love to see more dialogue around these elections as I feel I don't really know what I'm voting for when I place my votes. http://u2tech.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/u2ug-elections-2011/ Along with this, I also wonder how many people on this list are members of the U2UG and how many actually vote? I've never seen any numbers. I know I'm one of two out of the roughly 20 U2 people at my work who know of the U2UG and am the only member. Not the greatest odds. On the positive side, it leaves a lot of room to expand. :) Regards, Dan ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ### The information transmitted in this message and attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files with the permission of IMB. ### ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserve
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/17/2011 9:57:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes: > There is simply not enough reward for individuals in this > market for user group members to champion the MV platform to a > wide audience of relational I have to agree with Tony on this. It takes time and effort to pull the names out of a lethargic sea. I briefly mentioned in my history articles the formation of the multi-vendor association. Anyone remember details about that? Specifically who was in it, and why it collapsed. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE
In a message dated 3/17/2011 3:04:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, p...@gnosys.co.nz writes: > Worth a try but no unfortunately the ENVIRONMENT variable set in the uvsh > shell is lost when returning to the linux/unix shell which invoked the > uvsh. > I like the output to a log solution. Did you try that one? You could then even page the log to show the results in your outer shell, or pipe it into another script or something for auto-processing. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [Repost] Response from mvCommunitymap
In a message dated 3/17/2011 11:08:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cstew...@tri-sysconsulting.com writes: > There are two reasons why we haven't publicized everyone in our database. > # 1, We have to respect the Users privacy and confidentiality, not > just end-users, but vendors as well. As a vendor, how often do you > advertise > the tools that you use to run your business. Curt it's not the case that you "haven't publicized everyone", You haven't publicized ANYone. That's quite a different animal isn't it? You will only publicize the names of the companies who are the vendors and consultants if they pay you to advertise on your site? That's not a resource. We can get the names of many of these, by going to the Rocket website where they list solutions which run on U2. What is the benefit to the community to hide those very same company names on your map? I don't see it. I do see a benefit to you personally. My list of company names is open, public and free. W ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[U2] [Repost] Response from mvCommunitymap
First off we want to thank everyone that has visited, provided feedback and have made contributions to mvCommunitymap.com. Secondly, I apologize for the length of this post, but I do feel the need to clarify some issues. We did anticipate some skepticism from the mvCommunity and I apologize for not responding to your posts yesterday. There are two reasons why we haven't publicized everyone in our database. # 1, We have to respect the Users privacy and confidentiality, not just end-users, but vendors as well. As a vendor, how often do you advertise the tools that you use to run your business. We don't unless we thought it would have a positive impact on sales. So for an end-user how would marketing "We use MV" positively impact their sales? Secondly, which I thought might have been too obvious, is that we are a business. mvCommunitymap does provide a free service to the entire community, users and vendors. It does not however provide free advertising, except to User Groups, they get their group profile displayed at no charge. Why, because generally speaking a User Group is giving back to the mvCommunity by providing networking opportunities and operating at cost. Every one else will need to pay for the advertising. Since we are a business, yes, we hope to get some new business out of this venture. Not by poaching, but by and through advertising. We can say confidently that more companies have heard of mvCommunitymap and TRI-SYS today than on Monday. Will it lead to more business? We don't know, that's the gamble of advertising. But, while advertising our business, we have been able to give something back to the mvCommunity. Something that the mvCommunity can use to advertise itself, in our opinion. This is not a scheme to scam you out of your client lists. In fact, for those of you that understandably, don't want to release your customer names, we offer you a way of contributing, maintaining the anonymity of customers and getting some free advertising. If you want to participate, supply us with a list of your clients, but ONLY include your internal client number or some other code that can uniquely identify them to YOU and their zip code. This way you are not releasing any customer identifiable information to anyone. And, in return, when anyone clicks on the map marker, we will display "This location is verified by Your Vendor Name Here." Please explain to me if we are missing how this would violate A) your confidentiality with your customers and B) how we would be able to poach from this type of list. We do however see a downside to this. There will be an increased chance of duplication. We are working on a routine that multiple vendors could run against their list to produce a uniquely identifiable code, based on user name and zip. The trick is how do we make it so that the code can't be reversed engineered by us to reproduce the Customer name and zip. I'm open to any ideas or suggestions. We have been made aware, this morning, that some countries zip/postal codes are a bit more accurate than the US and the location revealed is too accurate. We are working to rectify this issue, but if anyone else has concerns such as this, please let us know. As we originally stated in our announcement, what really is going to make this site powerful is the participation of the mvCommunity. We are happy to work with you to address any concerns that you may have. We know that this site can benefit the entire Global mvCommunity with your help. The stronger this site is the more it will benefit us all. A posting in CDP, asked why should we be trusted. Well for most of you we haven't earned that trust, so I'm not asking you to trust us, I'm just asking you to participate in the process for now and we plan to earn your trust as time goes by. Again, thanks for your time and feedback. Sincerely, Curt Stewart mvCommunitymap.com A world view of the MultiValue Community (p) 262-432-3897 (c) 262-227-9619 www.mvCommunitymap.com Mapping MultiValue Users Worldwide! View my LinkedIn R Profile ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
> > br...@brianleach.co.uk writes: > >> Plus of course, since we don't charge fees, we don't > >> have any budget to advertise our presence! > From: fft > So I think there is really an enormous amount of > outreach that could be done, which isn't. I don't know > why that is. It's simple. Outreach requires a champion, and advocate, some individual or group that can afford the time to dedicate to a cause. There is simply not enough reward for individuals in this market for user group members to champion the MV platform to a wide audience of relational people. In other words, the answer to "why that is" is exactly what Brian said: "we don't have any budget". So the task is left to the DBMS vendors, who then unfortunately spend the marketing budgets that they have targeting other non-U2 MV sites rather than trying to bring in new business, because that's the low-hanging fruit from which they'd like to nourish themselves. What they don't seem to realize (after only a couple decades of this) is that they are practicing a form of self-canibalism which the rest of us recognize in the slowly decreasing market size. DBMS-provider Marketing can get the best bang for its buck, not necessarily by trying to sell the rest of the world a database, but by partnering with Value-Add Resellers who sell applications over their platform to present their offerings at tradeshows and in other marketing venues. As a matter of consequence, when an MV VAR is able to offer their own solutions to a wider audience, the word spreads about the platform they're using for development. >From : fft > > Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget? That would be rather awkward for a company to admit that they're not doing their own marketing to new audiences, but they'll allocate funds to a user group to do it for them. Sure I'm being a bit harsh in all of this, (call it tough love) but I'm getting a little tired of everyone pretending that the emperor is wearing clothes. I recently blogged on related topics, where I put forward that lack of marketing is a problem throughout the channel: nospamNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2011/03/spectrum1.html To keep this on topic, I don't see U2UG as being an entity that actually does marketing. As described for the DBMS vendors above, I see U2UG as a vehicle for helping VARs to validate their offering, by providing materials (or even someone to stand in a booth) to demonstrate that there is a larger world of developers behind what may seem like a fringe/fad technology. This is something the DBMS vendors should be doing, but since they're not, sure it would be nice if they helped with a budget for such things. BTW, when I was working at Pick Systems, we actually did shows like Comdex and Linux World Expo, and I was proud to do booth duty to help get the message out about the DBMS model, and to do side-by side comparisons of SQL with MV database operations. Aside from Revelation, I don't think any company is doing this kind of thing for the MV world, and even then I don't think they have been doing it "for the MV world", but really just for their own platform. It's that shift of focus that negates their effort for "our" purposes. Tony Gravagno Nebula Research and Development TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog Visit PickWiki.com! Contribute! http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE
Phil, maybe you should try @USER.RETURN.CODE. I don't know if you can control the values in @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE. Rich Richard Sammartino Systems Analyst School District of Philadelphia 440 N Broad Street Philadelphia, PA 19130 Phone (215) 400-5086 Fax (215) 400-4411 - Original Message - From: "Phil Walker" To: "U2 Users List" Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:01:41 PM Subject: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE Hi all, I am trying to detect the success of failure of a BASIC program when running from UNIX. I was going to use @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE setting to do this, hoping that the exit status of uvsh would reflect the value set for @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE but it appears this is not the case. Does anyone know if this works and I am just missing something silly? Possibly VOC entry process mode setting or something? e.g. uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM SUCCESS" would return exit status of 0 uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM FAILURE" would return exit status 1 uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM" would return 9 SUBROUTINE MYBASICPROGRAM @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 9 Get(Arg.) EXITSTATUS ELSE STOP BEGIN CASE CASE EXITSTATUS = 'SUCCESS' @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 0 CASE EXITSTATUS = "FAILURE' @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 1 END CASE RETURN This is a contrived example, but shows what I am trying to do with @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE. Cheers Phil. ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users ___ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE
Worth a try but no unfortunately the ENVIRONMENT variable set in the uvsh shell is lost when returning to the linux/unix shell which invoked the uvsh. > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Gregor Scott > Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 4:09 p.m. > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > You might be able to use the ENVIRONMENT command in UV to set an > environment variable, and test its value upon return to your shell. > Something like: > > EXECUTE "ENVIRONMENT SET UVRC=":@SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > will set the value. > > > Gregor > > -Original Message- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Phil Walker > Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 8:25 AM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > Thanks Brad, > > That idea had crossed my mind, alternatively capturing some output as this is > a non-interactive process but liked the simplicity of > @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > Maybe Mark Baldridge would have some ideas being the expert he is and an > old colleague at VMARK last century ;-) > > But I suspect the @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE is getting lost inside the uvsh > executable and not returned to UNIX > > Cheers > > > -Original Message- > > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of bradley.sch...@usbank.com > > Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 10:20 a.m. > > To: U2 Users List > > Subject: Re: [U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > > > Phil, > > > > I wrestled with this one quite a while a few years back under ud.. > > Never figured out a code-only solution. Ended up writing exit codes to > > a text file that the script reads when the program completes. If noone > > has any other ideas you like, ping me and I can explain what I did. > > > > Brad. > > > > > > > > From: Phil Walker > > To: U2 Users List > > Date: 03/16/2011 04:02 PM > > Subject:[U2] [UV] Uvsh exit status and @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE > > Sent by:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I am trying to detect the success of failure of a BASIC program when > > running from UNIX. I was going to use @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE setting to > > do this, hoping that the exit status of uvsh would reflect the value > > set for @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE but it appears this is not the case. Does > > anyone know if this works and I am just missing something silly? > > > > Possibly VOC entry process mode setting or something? > > > > e.g. > > > > uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM SUCCESS" would return exit status of 0 > > > > uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM FAILURE" would return exit status 1 > > > > uvsh "MYBASICPROGRAM" would return 9 > > > > SUBROUTINE MYBASICPROGRAM > > @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 9 > > Get(Arg.) EXITSTATUS ELSE STOP > > BEGIN CASE > > CASE EXITSTATUS = 'SUCCESS' > >@SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 0 > > CASE EXITSTATUS = "FAILURE' > > @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = 1 > > END CASE > > RETURN > > > > This is a contrived example, but shows what I am trying to do with > > @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE. > > > > Cheers > > > > Phil. > > > > > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > > > > > U.S. BANCORP made the following annotations > > - > > Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains > > information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications > > privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are > > legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or > > otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please > > reply to the sender that you have received this communication in > > error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your > cooperation. > > > > > > > > - > > > > ___ > > U2-Users mailing list > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > ___ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > -- > Message protected by DealerGuard: e-mail anti-virus, anti-spam and content > filtering. > http://www.pentanasolutions.com > > Click here to report this message as spam: > https://login.mailguard.com.au/report/1BULLlroVk/1rQ0ecbGO8cCUDpILHY > DxQ/0 > > > This email and any attachments to it are confidential. > You must not use, disclose or act on the email if you are not the
