Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files
Tony, Funny thing about consultants .. first thing they want to do is write a program instead of finding a pre-existing solution. TG Dave, anything I suggest is (usually) well considered before I TG hit the reply button. Having done this thing for (I believe) TG almost as long as you have, I'm familiar with most of the TG pre-existing solutions out there. All suggestions and solutions TG I offer are based on the premise that alternatives are deficient, TG time consuming, expensive, or simply non-existent - the nature of TG my business is to come up with (hopefully) better solutions based TG on an understanding of what's already out there. Sure, it was TG good for you to check here before you started writing code. If TG it wasn't implied properly I'll be explicit - I don't believe TG there is a pre-existing solution to read an mvBase VTF into TG Unidata. Therefore I suggested writing (trivial) code for TG synchronous or asynchronous exchanges, or to just get a (free) TG mvBase environment setup so that you can restore the VTF and TG export the data in an easy to migrate format. No biggs .. on re-read it did sound like that was directed to you and it really wasn't. It just surprises me that someone like uv/ud wouldn't have same since they are trying to be replacements/covers for all flavors. And i would think that anyone running from 'Tiger Logic' (just another group of sales people selling something they don't make?) would have found on or created one and make it available. If we decide to go the 'create one' way we will make it available. Thanks again .. Just a cranky old guy DSig -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. --President Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1954 (source: Eisenhower Presidential Papers, Document #1147; November 8, 1954 The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, Volume XV - The Presidency: The Middle Way Part VI: Crises Abroad, Party Problems at Home; September 1954 to December 1954,) Chapter 13: A new phase of political experience --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files
TG Dave wrote: And i would think that anyone running from 'Tiger Logic' (just another group of sales people selling something they don't make?) TG Tiger Logic is simply a name change from Raining Data (IMO TG only one of two good business decisions they've made in recent TG years). They acquired mvBase from GA about 8 years ago and have TG been (arguably) maintaining it since. To my knowledge TL does TG not pass-through any products for which they don't have/maintain TG source. would have found on or created one and make it available. TG And why would any company write and/or publish a tool that allows TG a backup tape to be read by another DBMS? Again, this is a tool TG for daily local backups. It's not a data transport medium. TG There are other ways to do that. I'ts okay .. you still aren't hearing what i'm typing TG For the cost of our time we'll convert your entire database, any TG platform, any OS, into an ADO.NET dataset or SQL Server database, TG which can then be read by any product that supports modern TG interfaces. Or we'll create interfaces for live access via any TG application that supports a .NET DataSource. Now _that_ is a TG transport medium. But at least i gave you a change to pitch your consultancy again G -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book. -- Friedrich Nietzsche --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re: Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files AD
David, I do not know of any way to read/write vtf files or account saves or file saves between mvBase and Universe. We do have a tool that will convert D3 account saves so they can be restored by Universe - if you can get your mvBase account save restored to a D3 machine. AD We developed the FileCaddy programs, T-DUMP and T-LOAD, to t-dump all files and dicts in an account to tape and t-load each file to an account, creating the file before it loads if it does not exist. It requires the use of a tape medium that can be read by both databases. It is limited to file names that do not exceed approx. 25 characters, because we carry the file name and file stats in the tape label of each t-dump. We use Accuterm to move files with names longer than approx. 25 chars. It is certified to move data from A/P, D3, mvBase, R91 (on a C.Itoh machine), Universe, Unidata to mvBase, Universe, Unidata. We offer the FileCaddy programs at no additional charge with the purchase of SpoolerPlus, our generic Pick print spooler for Universe and Unidata, or if we provide database conversion services. Please call me if you'd like to explore this further. /AD Regards, Dave Taylor Sysmark Information Systems, Inc. Authorized IBM Business Partner 49 Aspen Way Rolling Hills Estates, CA 90274 (O) 800-SYSMARK (800-797-6275) (F) 310-377-3550 (C) 310-561-5200 www.sysmarkinfo.com - Original Message - From: David Tod Sigafoos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tony G u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 9:04 AM Subject: Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files Tony, My higher goal is to move data from mvBase to uniVerse. Account save / account restore What I want is information on if this can be done simply. I can, as ray suggested, read the tape OR i can simply stream in the file and try to restore on my own. Thanks Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:39:03 PM, you wrote: Can uniVerse read and optionally create a VTF accessible to/from mvBase. The big bit is to read in .. TG David - I can't tell what your higher goal is from your question. TG If you want to exchange data synchronously or asynchronously TG between Universe and mvBASE (or any other MV environment), have a TG look at this blog entry: TG removepleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2008/02/cross-mv01.html TG That doesn't provide all the details, but in short, you can TG read/write between any local or remote environments with normal TG BASIC OPEN/READ/WRITE and some networking setup to move the data TG around. TG As usual, if you want a solution, just ask. Do I give away TG complex solutions? No, I write code for a living just like TG anyone else here. So yes, consider this an AD. Sigh. TG Regards, -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ 'Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D' unknown --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files
then there's unidata ... talk about grotesque G You are right .. moving data is moving data. A simple save/restore solves a lot of problems, if there is one. Of course I can follow the norm and just write something and charge the client a lot of something that should be there G Thanks Saturday, September 13, 2008, 6:54:47 PM, you wrote: BH G-man: BH Let me try to answer a couple of your questions... BH Moving data can be a goal. Whether you or I can foresee the need is BH irrelevant. I've moved quite a few accounts from D3 to UV and UD and I BH suspect Dave has an equally justifiable need (not that he should need to BH justify anything). BH There used to be a common backup to an older format that all platforms BH did. I can remember upgrading several different platforms to D3 and BH upgrading several D3 platforms to U2. They all had that familiar BH account-save (a type of thing. BH Many of the vendors had (have) utilities to bring in accounts from other BH systems. Flat-file BS is grotesque! Then there's UniData. :-) BH Bill BH -Original Message- BH From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] BH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony G BH Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 5:07 PM BH To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org BH Subject: RE: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files From: David Tod Sigafoos My higher goal is to move data from mvBase to uniVerse. Account save / account restore What I want is information on if this can be done simply. I can, as ray suggested, read the tape OR i can simply stream in the file and try to restore on my own. BH [flame jacket in hand] BH Moving data isn't a goal, it's a tactical effort to satisfy some BH more strategic business function. I'm still curious as to why BH you need to move data using platform-specific media. I find that BH the real answer to problems we see presented here is frequently BH that the wrong question is being asked. And while I know there BH can be some resentment when I question why someone is asking for BH a specific solution, that line of inquiry frequently leads to BH saving a lot of time and money in accomplishing the real BH strategic goal. Seriously, I deal with this all the time. BH The only valid case I can think of for your inquiry is that you BH have an old VTF and the source system no longer exists - maybe a BH crash-n-burn where the user wants to move to U2 rather than to BH pay for a new mvBASE license. Fair enough. If that's the case BH then my suggestion is to move the data into a live mvBASE system BH somewhere (which you can get for free from any mvBASE dealer) BH and then to extract it out using more conventional means. BH The tape mechanisms in all of these platforms was never intended BH to be cross-platform. They're intended to backup and restore BH data to a specific platform. And while we expect to be able to BH move data from one shop to another, across operating systems, and BH across DBMS releases, many of us have found there are occasional BH issues here. Extract data from these proprietary formats is a BH sure way to win geek points, but it's a pointless business effort BH considering there are better ways to accomplish the goals. BH So I would back up a moment (pun intended I guess) and ask why BH you're not writing flat files that can be transported and then BH read from the file system? If the systems are local then you can BH simply write to a file in BASIC that's simultaneously accessed by BH Universe. I do that for development all the time with a bunch of BH DBMS's. BH If the mvBASE system is still up and you want to do this on a BH regular basis, I'm guessing the environments are remote and you BH want to duplicate one or more accounts from one platform and just BH read it somewhere else. All the File-Save process does is to BH select the SYSTEM file, loop through all MD files, loop through BH all DICT files, and the copy all the DATA file items in a BH proprietary tape buffer format. I know you could swing that in a BH few minutes, using the same type of recursive loop to create BH directories and write items as files. ( I actually have code BH like that around here somewhere from an effort where I needed to BH extract an entire R83 system over a network via AccuTerm. ) BH Anyway, I hope you accomplish your goals. BH Best, BH T -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968) --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe
Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files
Tony, Funny thing about consultants .. first thing they want to do is write a program instead of finding a pre-existing solution. IF there were a way to move data from one environment to another without charging the client more money just to show off my brilliance that would be the best thing for the client (saving money and getting good results) and myself (why re invent the wheel .. i know i am smart i don't need to prove it to myself again). If there is no such thing then the simple answer would be .. nope .. there is no such thing. No one has ever done it .. set up a 300 baud line and just serialize the data from one box to the next G Thanks Saturday, September 13, 2008, 5:06:37 PM, you wrote: From: David Tod Sigafoos My higher goal is to move data from mvBase to uniVerse. Account save / account restore What I want is information on if this can be done simply. I can, as ray suggested, read the tape OR i can simply stream in the file and try to restore on my own. TG [flame jacket in hand] TG Moving data isn't a goal, it's a tactical effort to satisfy some TG more strategic business function. I'm still curious as to why TG you need to move data using platform-specific media. I find that TG the real answer to problems we see presented here is frequently TG that the wrong question is being asked. And while I know there TG can be some resentment when I question why someone is asking for TG a specific solution, that line of inquiry frequently leads to TG saving a lot of time and money in accomplishing the real TG strategic goal. Seriously, I deal with this all the time. TG The only valid case I can think of for your inquiry is that you TG have an old VTF and the source system no longer exists - maybe a TG crash-n-burn where the user wants to move to U2 rather than to TG pay for a new mvBASE license. Fair enough. If that's the case TG then my suggestion is to move the data into a live mvBASE system TG somewhere (which you can get for free from any mvBASE dealer) TG and then to extract it out using more conventional means. TG The tape mechanisms in all of these platforms was never intended TG to be cross-platform. They're intended to backup and restore TG data to a specific platform. And while we expect to be able to TG move data from one shop to another, across operating systems, and TG across DBMS releases, many of us have found there are occasional TG issues here. Extract data from these proprietary formats is a TG sure way to win geek points, but it's a pointless business effort TG considering there are better ways to accomplish the goals. TG So I would back up a moment (pun intended I guess) and ask why TG you're not writing flat files that can be transported and then TG read from the file system? If the systems are local then you can TG simply write to a file in BASIC that's simultaneously accessed by TG Universe. I do that for development all the time with a bunch of TG DBMS's. TG If the mvBASE system is still up and you want to do this on a TG regular basis, I'm guessing the environments are remote and you TG want to duplicate one or more accounts from one platform and just TG read it somewhere else. All the File-Save process does is to TG select the SYSTEM file, loop through all MD files, loop through TG all DICT files, and the copy all the DATA file items in a TG proprietary tape buffer format. I know you could swing that in a TG few minutes, using the same type of recursive loop to create TG directories and write items as files. ( I actually have code TG like that around here somewhere from an effort where I needed to TG extract an entire R83 system over a network via AccuTerm. ) TG Anyway, I hope you accomplish your goals. TG Best, TG T TG Tony Gravagno TG Nebula Research and Development TG TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com TG --- TG u2-users mailing list TG u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org TG To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/ TG __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of TG virus signature database 3440 (20080913) __ TG The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. TG http://www.eset.com -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. -- Abraham Lincoln(1809-1865) --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
Re[2]: [U2] access to mvBase VTF files
Tony, My higher goal is to move data from mvBase to uniVerse. Account save / account restore What I want is information on if this can be done simply. I can, as ray suggested, read the tape OR i can simply stream in the file and try to restore on my own. Thanks Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:39:03 PM, you wrote: Can uniVerse read and optionally create a VTF accessible to/from mvBase. The big bit is to read in .. TG David - I can't tell what your higher goal is from your question. TG If you want to exchange data synchronously or asynchronously TG between Universe and mvBASE (or any other MV environment), have a TG look at this blog entry: TG removepleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog/tech/mv/2008/02/cross-mv01.html TG That doesn't provide all the details, but in short, you can TG read/write between any local or remote environments with normal TG BASIC OPEN/READ/WRITE and some networking setup to move the data TG around. TG As usual, if you want a solution, just ask. Do I give away TG complex solutions? No, I write code for a living just like TG anyone else here. So yes, consider this an AD. Sigh. TG Regards, -- DSig ` David Tod Sigafoos ( O O ) ___oOOo__( )__oOOo___ 'Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D' unknown --- u2-users mailing list u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org To unsubscribe please visit http://listserver.u2ug.org/
