Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page
Thanks Penelope. I haven't seen what was on the page before his most recent update, but I suspect he did make some valuable contributions. I'm not sure if just the references to Vinux could be struck. Again, and thanks. On 19/02/13 11:45, Penelope Stowe wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Christopher Chaltain > mailto:chalt...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Sorry for the cross posting, and I know those on the Orca list have > already seen this, but I just wanted to bring the following to > everyone's attention. Bill Dengler has taken his opinion that Vinux is > irrelevant and not needed from the Orca list to the Ubuntu accessibility > community wiki. > > > I'm not sure why anything was added about Vinux. It's unnecessary. There > was no mention of it before the revision. I am reverting the page to an > earlier version. If Bill sees this, he can feel free to contact me about > it. The wiki is not a place for opinions, especially on the front page, > regardless of what those opinions are. > > I hope the Vinux folks know (and I think they should considering > previous contact), that the opinion stated does not represent the views > of the Ubuntu Accessibility Team as a whole. > > ~Penelope > Ubuntu Accessibility Team -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > Sorry for the cross posting, and I know those on the Orca list have > already seen this, but I just wanted to bring the following to > everyone's attention. Bill Dengler has taken his opinion that Vinux is > irrelevant and not needed from the Orca list to the Ubuntu accessibility > community wiki. I'm not sure why anything was added about Vinux. It's unnecessary. There was no mention of it before the revision. I am reverting the page to an earlier version. If Bill sees this, he can feel free to contact me about it. The wiki is not a place for opinions, especially on the front page, regardless of what those opinions are. I hope the Vinux folks know (and I think they should considering previous contact), that the opinion stated does not represent the views of the Ubuntu Accessibility Team as a whole. ~Penelope Ubuntu Accessibility Team -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Re: Fwd: Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page
If one distro is named, then the person must make his stand clear and the reasons for it. May be there is a point which some might agree, but get the points out at least. Happy hacking. Krishnakant. On 02/19/2013 10:30 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: Sorry for the cross posting, and I know those on the Orca list have already seen this, but I just wanted to bring the following to everyone's attention. Bill Dengler has taken his opinion that Vinux is irrelevant and not needed from the Orca list to the Ubuntu accessibility community wiki. I make my opinion known below. Given the open nature of wikis, I'm not sure what any one can do to keep such a personal opinion from being portrayed as the communities opinion. I also think it's a shame that Bill Dengler seems to have such a grudge against Vinux. He seems to have a lot to contribute otherwise. He doesn't call out other distros though, like Sonar or F123, so there seems to be something specific about vinux where he feels compelled to tell the world how irrelevant and unnecessary it is. Original Message Subject: Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:03 -0600 From: Christopher Chaltain To: orca-l...@gnome.org I think the statement that Vinux is not needed any more on this page is inappropriate. I think this is a personal opinion that we already discussed on this list. If anything, this is the opinion of one person or a few people and not necessarily the opinion of the entire Ubuntu accessibility community. IMHO, Vinux is not irrelevant Of course, you could say that any distro or flavor is irrelevant or not needed, but distros and flavors spring up for a reason. I have a rather long list of steps I follow to get stock Ubuntu to the point where I can drop it into my production environment, including changing Makefiles and recompiling. To have this done for me in a distro makes that distro relevant. IMHO, Ubuntu accessibility is more than just getting Orca up and running on the desktop. As I said above, this has already been discussed on this list, and I think you've been involved in those discussions. I'd suggest reviewing the archives of this list and that discussion. I'd also suggest taking this off the Orca list and maybe over to the Ubuntu Accessibility list. Finally, I'd suggest being receptive to feedback on this content. On 19/02/13 09:31, Bill Dengler wrote: How so? I installed Ubuntu 12.10 using a USB flash drive onto this linux laptop, used it, upgraded it to 13.04, am still using it without issues, am typing this e-mail on said install, and about to press ctrl+enter and send it. There was a time when Linux a11y was hard to set up, where gnome wasn't even fully accessible, where we were using this gnopernicus screen reader that gave us minimal access etc. Those times we needed a simple, insert the disk, push a button and start up a talking system disk. But the standard Ubuntu media with no modifications does this and does it well, and so Vinux is irrelevant. On 02/19/2013 10:25 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 03:18:05PM GMT, Luke Yelavich wrote: On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 02:46:14PM GMT, Bill Dengler wrote: I updated Ubuntu's a11y page. Does this look correct/current? Do you suggest anything else? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility I don't really think its worth mentioning Vinux on an Ubuntu page. Vinux is not really recognised as an official derivative of Ubuntu, and likely never will, due to the use of 3rd-party repositories and a development cycle thats not in sync with ubuntu, among other things. And, it could be argued that the blurb about vinux and its relevance or otherwise is a matter of personal opinion. Luke ___ orca-list mailing list orca-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp ___ orca-list mailing list orca-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. The manual is at http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
Fwd: Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page
Sorry for the cross posting, and I know those on the Orca list have already seen this, but I just wanted to bring the following to everyone's attention. Bill Dengler has taken his opinion that Vinux is irrelevant and not needed from the Orca list to the Ubuntu accessibility community wiki. I make my opinion known below. Given the open nature of wikis, I'm not sure what any one can do to keep such a personal opinion from being portrayed as the communities opinion. I also think it's a shame that Bill Dengler seems to have such a grudge against Vinux. He seems to have a lot to contribute otherwise. He doesn't call out other distros though, like Sonar or F123, so there seems to be something specific about vinux where he feels compelled to tell the world how irrelevant and unnecessary it is. Original Message Subject: Re: [orca-list] [ubuntu] updated a11y page Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:38:03 -0600 From: Christopher Chaltain To: orca-l...@gnome.org I think the statement that Vinux is not needed any more on this page is inappropriate. I think this is a personal opinion that we already discussed on this list. If anything, this is the opinion of one person or a few people and not necessarily the opinion of the entire Ubuntu accessibility community. IMHO, Vinux is not irrelevant Of course, you could say that any distro or flavor is irrelevant or not needed, but distros and flavors spring up for a reason. I have a rather long list of steps I follow to get stock Ubuntu to the point where I can drop it into my production environment, including changing Makefiles and recompiling. To have this done for me in a distro makes that distro relevant. IMHO, Ubuntu accessibility is more than just getting Orca up and running on the desktop. As I said above, this has already been discussed on this list, and I think you've been involved in those discussions. I'd suggest reviewing the archives of this list and that discussion. I'd also suggest taking this off the Orca list and maybe over to the Ubuntu Accessibility list. Finally, I'd suggest being receptive to feedback on this content. On 19/02/13 09:31, Bill Dengler wrote: > How so? I installed Ubuntu 12.10 using a USB flash drive onto this linux > laptop, used it, upgraded it to 13.04, am still using it without issues, > am typing this e-mail on said install, and about to press ctrl+enter and > send it. There was a time when Linux a11y was hard to set up, where > gnome wasn't even fully accessible, where we were using this gnopernicus > screen reader that gave us minimal access etc. Those times we needed a > simple, insert the disk, push a button and start up a talking system > disk. But the standard Ubuntu media with no modifications does this and > does it well, and so Vinux is irrelevant. > On 02/19/2013 10:25 AM, Luke Yelavich wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 03:18:05PM GMT, Luke Yelavich wrote: >>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 02:46:14PM GMT, Bill Dengler wrote: I updated Ubuntu's a11y page. Does this look correct/current? Do you suggest anything else? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility >>> I don't really think its worth mentioning Vinux on an Ubuntu page. Vinux is >>> not really recognised as an official derivative of Ubuntu, and likely never >>> will, due to the use of 3rd-party repositories and a development cycle >>> thats not in sync with ubuntu, among other things. >> And, it could be argued that the blurb about vinux and its relevance or >> otherwise is a matter of personal opinion. >> >> Luke >> ___ >> orca-list mailing list >> orca-l...@gnome.org >> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list >> Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. >> The manual is at >> http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html >> The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions >> Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org >> Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > > ___ > orca-list mailing list > orca-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/orca-list > Visit http://live.gnome.org/Orca for more information on Orca. > The manual is at > http://library.gnome.org/users/gnome-access-guide/nightly/ats-2.html > The FAQ is at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > Log bugs and feature requests at http://bugzilla.gnome.org > Find out how to help at http://live.gnome.org/Orca/HowCanIHelp > -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- Ubuntu-accessibility mailing list Ubuntu-accessibility@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-accessibility
