Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:19 AM, Kenneth Wimer wrote: I have added these to the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/ Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan) although you should note that this spec is not approved yet, so there might be some small changes still coming. We still need to clear up the situation with Ponder, etc. but following Franks lead, I'll hit the sack now and work on this first thing in the morning :-) I have now added the end of each cycle in the t4p process to the wiki page, hope this makes things a bit clearer. Bye, Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
Michiel Sikma wrote: Thoughts regarding wallpaper idea would be appreciated; http://www.weidel.se/gfx/desktop2%201400.png The desktop colour should not be too bright, or it becomes tiring to look at all day. We generally have chosen to go with darker, richer colours so that there is less strain on the eyes. Also, we are preferring not to have distro branding that is so obvious (the big Ubuntu logo) but instead to choose images which are distinctive enough that they are immediately recognisable in screenshots to anyone who has worked with Ubuntu before. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
Lapo Calamandrei wrote I feel like being personally attacked when somebody talk down tango this way. I certainly have no desire to cause offense - sorry if that's the case. My experience with Tango has just not been the one I want for the default experience with Ubuntu and Kubuntu. I think the *process* of Tango has been excellent in terms of defining guidelines and palettes, I just don't like the resulting icons. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 21:03:14 +0100 Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Excellent news. Congrats Ken & Frank, I am hoping this decision will put things on track again! Kind Regards - Niel Drummond > > Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
2006/6/26, Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: [CUT] I think there is plenty of room for Ubuntu to establish a style of its own. I think Tango has been over-rated because it attempts to bind Gnome and KDE together in a way that they do not want to be bound together. I may well be wrong, which is why I don't discourage you from investing your time and energy in Tangerine, but I am confident in my opinion, which is why I'm investing my own time and energy this way.I think you have a wrong understanding about what tango is, it doesn't try to bind together GNOME and KDE, it attempts to make a set of guidelines and tools to create a consistent user experience for OSS. It will most definitely become very popular, and I don't think it is a good idea for Ubuntu to say no to that style because "we want it to be a little different". Distinctiveness is ESSENTIAL. I'm afraid I won't budge on that point. Tango will NEVER be the default theme for Ubuntu because it is entirely un-distinctive. I think distintiveness to the detriment of usability is bad and this is what I feel is branding by means of icons. I tried to demostrate already with what became tangerine that is possible to keep branding even being consistent with other applications. If you don't like tango icon theme use the next gnome icon theme (which will probably be tango style) as a base a change very visible icons (folders, trashbin, hardware stuff, navigation arrows) with your own tango style icons, this way you will have your unique look and feel and you will keep consistence with application using tango style icons. Sorry if I sounds offensive, that was not my intention, but I feel like being personally attacked when somebody talk down tango this way.LapoP.S. : I'm not a novell emploee or supporter -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
On Tuesday 27 June 2006 00:12, Michiel Sikma wrote: > I've also done some wallpaper sketching which I'll present later > while we're on the subject. That's great to hear, can you make sure these roll in later next week when we start the "Propose" phase? During that phase we'll be looking for sketches and compositions for wallpapers and all other targets. They do not need to be finished at that time, it's quite the opposite - we need ideas which we can share and work out later on. Stay tuned everyone, I'm sure everything will become clear tomorrow. With kind regards, Frank Schoep -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:29 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: Niklas Weidel wrote: Just a small thought for the edgy-schedule; the headings could be a bit more obvious, for example there's "Ponder" two time in a row. It's not very obvious, at least to me, that the second of these is meant to represent the end of that activity. It would be wiser to label them "Ponder start" and "Ponder end" to make it crystal clear. To me, it looks like two dates that are designated to Ponder, and not a period between them. :) Also, we discussed that we should have specific deadlines for: - usplash, login and login splash - desktop wallpaper - major icons (design) - minor icons (design) - major icons (all sizes) AIC's, please could you work those into the proposed schedule? I have added these to the wiki (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/ EdgyArtworkPlan) although you should note that this spec is not approved yet, so there might be some small changes still coming. We still need to clear up the situation with Ponder, etc. but following Franks lead, I'll hit the sack now and work on this first thing in the morning :-) Bye, Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:27 PM, Niklas Weidel wrote: Just a small thought for the edgy-schedule; the headings could be a bit more obvious, for example there's "Ponder" two time in a row. It's not very obvious, at least to me, that the second of these is meant to represent the end of that activity. It would be wiser to label them "Ponder start" and "Ponder end" to make it crystal clear. To me, it looks like two dates that are designated to Ponder, and not a period between them. :) /Weidel Ps. Newb-question; where/how to upload ideas and propositions for the specs? Edit the wikipages? Thoughts regarding wallpaper idea would be appreciated; http:// www.weidel.se/gfx/desktop2%201400.png -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art That looks really nice. It's too bad, however, that the shadow underneath the text of icons on the desktop is pretty thin, which might be detrimental to readability, as this is a very bright wallpaper. It also remains to be seen whether it would be a good idea to brand wallpapers so clearly. But aside from all of that, I think it looks great. Is the logo itself in vectors? I've also done some wallpaper sketching which I'll present later while we're on the subject. Michiel Sikma [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
On Monday 26 June 2006 23:29, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Niklas Weidel wrote: > > Just a small thought for the edgy-schedule; the headings could be a > > bit more obvious, for example there's "Ponder" two time in a row. It's > > not very obvious, at least to me, that the second of these is meant to > > represent the end of that activity. It would be wiser to label them > > "Ponder start" and "Ponder end" to make it crystal clear. To me, it > > looks like two dates that are designated to Ponder, and not a period > > between them. :) If this is not totally clear, as it seems, I'll come up with a way to better represent the fact that we have each phase spanning across weeks. Thanks for pointing this out. > Also, we discussed that we should have specific deadlines for: > > - usplash, login and login splash > - desktop wallpaper > - major icons (design) > - minor icons (design) > - major icons (all sizes) > > AIC's, please could you work those into the proposed schedule? I'm not sure if I was deeply involved in this discussion. The current process and proposed schedule are based on the fact that we will consecutively set out general guidelines (Target Identification and Ponder), then create sketches and share ideas for every target (Propose) and then Produce and Polish all results. This implies that all targets are in production-finished state at the same time and that also goes for the final, polished versions of each target. The idea behind this is that it will improve the quality and consistency amongst art assets by sharing experiences and ideas. If this leads to major problems, I will adjust the process and schedule accordingly, because it's better to get this corrected before we really get started. I'm going to get some sleep right now, which unfortunately means I won't be able to send the "Target Identification" and "Ponder" e-mails tonight anymore, but I'll do that first thing in the morning. With kind regards, Frank Schoep -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Congrats :) Edgy artwork will rock! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
Congratulations you guys! That's great. On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 21:03 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > I would like to announce the appointment of Frank Schoep (Ubuntu) and > Ken Wimer (Kubuntu) as "Artists in Chief" for Edgy Eft. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] New Theme Idea
Guess what, now working around the face that the Human and Tangerine icons are being kept, I have made a brand new theme proposal, inspired by the lights on the front of my Router (of all places for inspiration, it just had to be a network router!) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Tropic I call it Tropic, how do you like it? Any changes I should implement? Viper550 -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
Niklas Weidel wrote: Just a small thought for the edgy-schedule; the headings could be a bit more obvious, for example there's "Ponder" two time in a row. It's not very obvious, at least to me, that the second of these is meant to represent the end of that activity. It would be wiser to label them "Ponder start" and "Ponder end" to make it crystal clear. To me, it looks like two dates that are designated to Ponder, and not a period between them. :) Also, we discussed that we should have specific deadlines for: - usplash, login and login splash - desktop wallpaper - major icons (design) - minor icons (design) - major icons (all sizes) AIC's, please could you work those into the proposed schedule? Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Schedule-thought
Just a small thought for the edgy-schedule; the headings could be a bit more obvious, for example there's "Ponder" two time in a row. It's not very obvious, at least to me, that the second of these is meant to represent the end of that activity. It would be wiser to label them "Ponder start" and "Ponder end" to make it crystal clear. To me, it looks like two dates that are designated to Ponder, and not a period between them. :) /WeidelPs. Newb-question; where/how to upload ideas and propositions for the specs? Edit the wikipages?Thoughts regarding wallpaper idea would be appreciated; http://www.weidel.se/gfx/desktop2%201400.png -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
On ma, 2006-06-26 at 21:03 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Congratulations, and now get to work ;) Dapper looked good, but edgy will have to look better to hide the edgyness :) -- Dennis K. Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:02 PM, Michiel Sikma wrote: On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: OK, I think we are making progress here! Michiel Sikma wrote: We would like to flesh out and complete Human during Edgy, and will backport that to Dapper (along with Frank's Firefox-Human theme) in a point release. I will make this my priority for now. Maybe someone, who is listening in on this conversation, could use this occasion to give me an idea about the status of Adobe Illustrator as a suitable vector program. I'm willing to learn how to get used to Inkscape, since it seems to be not too difficult, but I was wondering if it's also possible to properly export SVGs with Illustrator. I don't want to contribute anything that's useless to anybody besides the folks who use that particular program. As long as you stay away from any filters and effects it works fine. Note however that some SVGs made in inkscape cannot be edited without loss in AI (inkscape can make a gradient with transparency in the nodes and can also make stroke gradients...AI can show this stuff correctly but it cannot edit them). In the end, you should save the SVG with AI and then test it with inkscape to make sure that everything works. One good thing about AI is that the paths it writes are much smaller than inkscape. Bye, Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:29 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: OK, I think we are making progress here! Michiel Sikma wrote: What I do appreciate is that Human was used in Dapper while it was incomplete as an extra impulse to get people to complete it. I'll definitely make it one of my things to do to point out things which I believe are bad choices in Human. Because, like I've said, Human isn't a bad icon set (at all), to me personally, there are small things that add up and make a large difference. These aren't things that are difficult to solve. You have a good eye for those inconsistencies. Would you like to join the team improving Human? As I see it the process would be: - continue to identify and prioritise icons on the page at: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ - discuss inconsistencies and give the AIC feedback - develop a set of "style guidelines" that capture the essence of what has been done - not change the key style established in Human (i.e. the folder icon and others) - not redo icons unless there is a significant inconsistency - contribute icons that fit with the emerging style of Human We would like to flesh out and complete Human during Edgy, and will backport that to Dapper (along with Frank's Firefox-Human theme) in a point release. I will make this my priority for now. Maybe someone, who is listening in on this conversation, could use this occasion to give me an idea about the status of Adobe Illustrator as a suitable vector program. I'm willing to learn how to get used to Inkscape, since it seems to be not too difficult, but I was wondering if it's also possible to properly export SVGs with Illustrator. I don't want to contribute anything that's useless to anybody besides the folks who use that particular program. There is another thing that I would like to address, and it is the fact that Tango aims to give people a method of aligning the user interfaces of all Linux programs onto one centrally decided standard by means of (mainly) guidelines. This is, to me, an extremely interesting project, as it's usually consistency that is sometimes missing in Linux user interfaces. It also misses the basic fact that the KDE community wants different things from the Gnome community. While you may want consistency, that's a little bit like trying to make the Mac and Windows look the same. You could probably do it but you would end up with a bastard halfbreed that pleased nobody. Gnome and KDE are not just different colours. They have different philosophies. One of the key ingredients of our success in this project has been that we respected the difference rather than trying to shoehorn their vision into a combined platform. Red Hat and SUSE have done the shoehorning, we have quite deliberately allowed the Gnome and KDE communities to express their differences. If you want to be involved in the art in this project, then you really need to grasp how important that distinction is. While a "consistent user interface" is a beautiful idea, it should not come at the price of the feeling that KDE and Gnome have that Ubuntu / Kubuntu are the best places for THEM to express their ideas. THEY write the software, we just package it. This is absolutely essential for everyone to understand. Tango misses this. Now, don't get me wrong. We want the different desktop environments to learn from one another. We learned a bunch of stuff during Breezy with Ubuntu, and as a result we tuned the Kubuntu desktop in Dapper. But we did not try to make them look the same. Just like we have not tried to make either of them look like Windows (one common request) or like the Mac (another common request). Hmm, I actually think that we're not entirely on the same page when it comes to the Tango project. I actually don't really value its attempt to unify GNOME and KDE that much as I am interested in it unifying just GNOME. I'm very unknowledgeable on KDE, actually. I can't really argue with you there, but it's true that GNOME and KDE have different philosophies, so you must be correct when it comes to this aspect of Tango. My feeling is that, like you say, it's important to have a firmly established style, but by doing that, one mustn't sacrifice the identity of a desktop environment. Killing off an identity will ruin the particular charm that such an environment has. I guess that there wasn't a reason for us to even begin the Tango discussion in this particular context. I still value its attempt to become a central authority in usability. It's most likely not a good idea to unify GNOME and KDE, but in the context of GNOME, it might very well be a good idea to provide people with one (careful and open) central idea of how a system should (or might) visually behave. Not in the sense that you have mentioned, and I'm glad that it turns out I agree with you on that as it is indeed a ve
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
On 6/26/06, Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Indeed, Congrats to you both. I am already looking forward to the edgy artwork! -- Matt T. Galvin mgalvin on irc.freenode.net http://people.simplifiedcomplexity.com/~mgalvin/ Ubuntu Documentation Team Member -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
Congratulations to you two! Although I don't know Ken too well short of a few run-ins at the IRC channel, I've seen his contributions and know that he knows what he's talking about. Same goes for Frank. I'm fully confident that you guys can steer this project into a good direction! :) Michiel Sikma [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Published Guidelines and Congrats
On Mon, 2006-26-06 at 21:15 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > No, there's no published guideline, and fixing that should be our > first step. Human was created over a series of phone calls between me, > Dave (from the company that did the design work), Daniel Holbach, Jeff > Waugh and Jane Silber. There has been significant effort to attempt and 'embody' the Human theme as distilled from the traces we have already in place. I believe the title of the document is "Philosophy" in the Documents section of the Wiki, and it will go a long way to trying to embody the 'look' of default Human -- from boot up to shutdown. I'll leave it to F&K to provide an introduction to the cycle phases from here. I am quite sure they will include a reference to that document, as it has the guiding thrust for the default look -- upon which the release specific thrusts are based. Congratulations to Ken and Frank! They are great people to have leading the first charge. Please help them as much as you can -- their workload is massive. To the future... TJS signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
OK, I think we are making progress here! Michiel Sikma wrote: What I do appreciate is that Human was used in Dapper while it was incomplete as an extra impulse to get people to complete it. I'll definitely make it one of my things to do to point out things which I believe are bad choices in Human. Because, like I've said, Human isn't a bad icon set (at all), to me personally, there are small things that add up and make a large difference. These aren't things that are difficult to solve. You have a good eye for those inconsistencies. Would you like to join the team improving Human? As I see it the process would be: - continue to identify and prioritise icons on the page at: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ - discuss inconsistencies and give the AIC feedback - develop a set of "style guidelines" that capture the essence of what has been done - not change the key style established in Human (i.e. the folder icon and others) - not redo icons unless there is a significant inconsistency - contribute icons that fit with the emerging style of Human We would like to flesh out and complete Human during Edgy, and will backport that to Dapper (along with Frank's Firefox-Human theme) in a point release. I think that I've been misunderstood on this point a little, though. I don't think that it's not a good idea for Ubuntu to make itself distinct as a Linux distribution, as it _is_ a very important and unique one. I do support the "Ubuntufication" of the user interface, but feel that the way to go about this is by ensuring that such an attribute does not get in the way of usability, consistency and affiliation with the general user interface system of operating systems as a whole. OK. Then help us make Human even better! I happen to think we have improved on Tango in a number of ways. I think when Human is great, it's far more attractive than Tango. Yes, it has more warts, but we will take care of those over the course of Edgy. To my eyes, Tango is a little dry and dull. It lacks the austere beauty of OS X, and the cheerful beauty of Win XP. There is another thing that I would like to address, and it is the fact that Tango aims to give people a method of aligning the user interfaces of all Linux programs onto one centrally decided standard by means of (mainly) guidelines. This is, to me, an extremely interesting project, as it's usually consistency that is sometimes missing in Linux user interfaces. It also misses the basic fact that the KDE community wants different things from the Gnome community. While you may want consistency, that's a little bit like trying to make the Mac and Windows look the same. You could probably do it but you would end up with a bastard halfbreed that pleased nobody. Gnome and KDE are not just different colours. They have different philosophies. One of the key ingredients of our success in this project has been that we respected the difference rather than trying to shoehorn their vision into a combined platform. Red Hat and SUSE have done the shoehorning, we have quite deliberately allowed the Gnome and KDE communities to express their differences. If you want to be involved in the art in this project, then you really need to grasp how important that distinction is. While a "consistent user interface" is a beautiful idea, it should not come at the price of the feeling that KDE and Gnome have that Ubuntu / Kubuntu are the best places for THEM to express their ideas. THEY write the software, we just package it. This is absolutely essential for everyone to understand. Tango misses this. Now, don't get me wrong. We want the different desktop environments to learn from one another. We learned a bunch of stuff during Breezy with Ubuntu, and as a result we tuned the Kubuntu desktop in Dapper. But we did not try to make them look the same. Just like we have not tried to make either of them look like Windows (one common request) or like the Mac (another common request). I feel that the Tango project will be very important to Linux user interface development in the future and that it should expand beyond just providing an icon set. I think that it's important to realize that outside development will always be the largest portion of an operating system, and that once this portion becomes consistent with itself, Linux will become a whole lot more interesting for lots of people to use. Ubuntu should not blindly follow this, I agree, but should also not stray too far from what could be a great collaboration in the Linux community as a whole. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball. I can't tell what the future will bring. But allowing Human to blend in with Tango will definitely be a good thing. It's already well on its way, and in that sense, Ubuntu is leading the way (especially when compared to, for example, Fedora). This, however, is the reason why I feel that it's not always necessary for the Human icon theme to "re-invent the wheel". Such a feeling is partially ph
Re: [ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
> Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Yeah ! Feliciations ! Bravo ! :D :P Étienne. -- Verso l'Alto ! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
Travis Watkins wrote: On 6/26/06, Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [huge snip] Just wondering: _are_ there any published guidelines and/or colour palettes for the Human icon set? If there are, are they being followed? One or both of these questions appears to be have "no" as an answer. No, there's no published guideline, and fixing that should be our first step. Human was created over a series of phone calls between me, Dave (from the company that did the design work), Daniel Holbach, Jeff Waugh and Jane Silber. We can continue to retain Dave's professional services and put them at Frank's disposal. As Artist-in-chief for Edgy I would expect Frank to coordinate this work. Michiel would be a great person to have on that team, identifying inconsistencies and extracting guidelines from the decisions that have been taken already. I'm happy to sit in on the first few calls just to get the ball rolling. Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Appointment of AIC's for Edgy
Artists! Based on conversations on this list, as well as meetings and interviews, I would like to announce the appointment of Frank Schoep (Ubuntu) and Ken Wimer (Kubuntu) as "Artists in Chief" for Edgy Eft. They report to me, in the sense that I will approve their high level direction, but they have authority to decide the final images selected for: - usplash - login background - login splash - desktop wallpaper They will also lead the work tweaking icons, widgets and window manager decorations for the default theme in both distros. In the case of Ubuntu, Human will remain the default theme for Edgy, and in the case of Kubuntu Ken and I have yet to confirm a direction. In addition, they will liaise with Jane Silber of Canonical in the design of any packaging for Edgy Eft. Note that we will probably continue to ship *dapper* CD's through the Edgy release (given that Dapper is our long term supported release) but the Edgy packaging artwork will be used for Edgy DVD's on Amazon. These appointments are for Edgy, and we will select new AIC's for Edgy+1. The positions are part-time work funded by Canonical. The AIC's will be the primary interface between the art and distro development team, they will attend distro meetings and will be able to oversee packaging. The AIC's will also lead the "theme teams" for the default themes. In addition to the default themes, we will create "theme teams" for additional themes that may or may not make it into the final release of Edgy. We are in the process of selecting an Art Council that will be appointed by the Ubuntu Community Council. The Art Council will decide which theme teams we will encourage new art team members to contribute to ( in other words, the "leading candidates for inclusion"). The decision as to which themes will ACTUALLY be included will be deferred until we are closer to release, with a good idea of how complete and polished the themes will be. We will aim to have a selection of themes that meet a variety of requirements in terms of palette, accessibility, and speed. I did intend to get the Art Council in place before making this announcement, but given that Edgy is such a short cycle we need to unleash the AIC's right away. Please join me in congratulating Frank and Ken on this appointment! Mark -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
On Jun 26, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
Michiel Sikma wrote:
I don't think it's just my opinion that differs. As I've mentioned
before, I've got valid criticism for the Human icon set. I simply
believe it to be inferior to Tangerine/Tango for various reasons.
Michiel, Human is incomplete. It's your choice as to whether or not
you want to help make it complete and consistent, or whether you
would rather put time into Tangerine, or Outdoors, or one of the
other themes. I don't mind where you choose to spend your time. I
think it would be a great contribution to Ubuntu if you help make
Tangerine stunningly beautiful. If it's good enough, Tangerine will
ship in Edgy, and people can select it and appreciate your work.
Please understand that it is not your sole say what the default
theme for Ubuntu will be. Nor is it a democratic decision on this
list. It is for the moment my decision, and in time I hope to
delegate that to a dedicated art director and an art team. But
first that team has to prove that it can make good plans, harness
resources, and execute its plans, meeting a deadline.
We spent quite a bit of time in Paris sketching out what that
structure would look like, and there is plenty of space for people
to work on Human, Tangerine, Outdoors, etc.
Firstly, I'd like to apologize in case it seems like I'm only
interested in negatively contorting Human. It's not my intention to
do this. My goal, when starting this discussion, was to give a
general account of the artistic conditions under which the Ubuntu
artwork suite was formed and will continue to be produced, and then
figure out whether such a direction is suitable. I might have gone
overboard on this occasion, especially since it's currently early in
the process. I do intend to contribute things rather than just sit
down and complain; don't worry about that. I guess that I'll think of
this as a wake-up call, mostly, since I was interested in debating
with the folks from Oxygen-icons, while this isn't very appreciated
(in this way) at this time.
I also don't see why you simply say "guidelines are great, but we
make exceptions". I don't see why you can just admit that some of
the icons in the Human set are inconsistent.
They are inconsistent purely because we have not had time to
complete the set. The current set was produced in a rush during
Dapper, I plan to continue to invest in the Human icon set and to
work with a growing team of community volunteers to turn it into a
fantastic and consistent set of icons. I think you have a great eye
for consistency and clarity and would welcome your participation.
You can help identify inconsistencies and provide icons which
follow the style of Human but improve on the consistency. But if
you are dead set on using Tangerine, the please simply focus your
efforts there and stop talking-down Human. Make a positive
contribution somewhere, not a negative contribution.
What I do appreciate is that Human was used in Dapper while it was
incomplete as an extra impulse to get people to complete it. I'll
definitely make it one of my things to do to point out things which I
believe are bad choices in Human. Because, like I've said, Human
isn't a bad icon set (at all), to me personally, there are small
things that add up and make a large difference. These aren't things
that are difficult to solve. In such cases, my main criticism is that
such icons are usually available in the Tangerine set, but more
developed and already figured out to not have x or y attributes due
to possible improbabilities concerning the final look of the product
once the icons have been assembled and blended into the UI; a lot of
icons in Human also seem to be made while they are also available in
Tangerine and yet don't seem to be significantly different
("reinventing the wheel"). Again, these are just minor things, and no
reason to stop using any icon theme.
This doesn't take away that most of the icons in the system should
just come from Tangerine/Tango, as the Tango icon set is likely to
be the style of icons for _all_ default application icons in the
future.
I think there is plenty of room for Ubuntu to establish a style of
its own. I think Tango has been over-rated because it attempts to
bind Gnome and KDE together in a way that they do not want to be
bound together. I may well be wrong, which is why I don't
discourage you from investing your time and energy in Tangerine,
but I am confident in my opinion, which is why I'm investing my own
time and energy this way.
It will most definitely become very popular, and I don't think it
is a good idea for Ubuntu to say no to that style because "we want
it to be a little different".
Distinctiveness is ESSENTIAL. I'm afraid I won't budge on that
point. Tango will NEVER be the default theme for Ubuntu because it
is entirely un-distinctive.
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
On 6/26/06, Mark Shuttleworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [huge snip] Just wondering: _are_ there any published guidelines and/or colour palettes for the Human icon set? If there are, are they being followed? One or both of these questions appears to be have "no" as an answer. -- Travis Watkins http://www.realistanew.com -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
Michiel Sikma wrote: I don't think it's just my opinion that differs. As I've mentioned before, I've got valid criticism for the Human icon set. I simply believe it to be inferior to Tangerine/Tango for various reasons. Michiel, Human is incomplete. It's your choice as to whether or not you want to help make it complete and consistent, or whether you would rather put time into Tangerine, or Outdoors, or one of the other themes. I don't mind where you choose to spend your time. I think it would be a great contribution to Ubuntu if you help make Tangerine stunningly beautiful. If it's good enough, Tangerine will ship in Edgy, and people can select it and appreciate your work. Please understand that it is not your sole say what the default theme for Ubuntu will be. Nor is it a democratic decision on this list. It is for the moment my decision, and in time I hope to delegate that to a dedicated art director and an art team. But first that team has to prove that it can make good plans, harness resources, and execute its plans, meeting a deadline. We spent quite a bit of time in Paris sketching out what that structure would look like, and there is plenty of space for people to work on Human, Tangerine, Outdoors, etc. I also don't see why you simply say "guidelines are great, but we make exceptions". I don't see why you can just admit that some of the icons in the Human set are inconsistent. They are inconsistent purely because we have not had time to complete the set. The current set was produced in a rush during Dapper, I plan to continue to invest in the Human icon set and to work with a growing team of community volunteers to turn it into a fantastic and consistent set of icons. I think you have a great eye for consistency and clarity and would welcome your participation. You can help identify inconsistencies and provide icons which follow the style of Human but improve on the consistency. But if you are dead set on using Tangerine, the please simply focus your efforts there and stop talking-down Human. Make a positive contribution somewhere, not a negative contribution. To me, it sounds like you're just saying "it's been decided, you don't have any say in it, let's smother this discussion". I disagree with such an attitude. You have plenty of say, but you have spent it. Now it's time for work :-) So, choose where you will WORK. Either you can help on Human, or Tangerine, or another theme. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't think that the Human icon set is bad by any standard, but I simply feel that a more open process would enable us to get rid of such things. It's imperative that inconsistency is taken care of in any case. I agree. Consistency is important - and Human needs to be more consistent. You can help with that. Human is not fundamentally closed, but in order to work with an outside artist we needed a specific process during Dapper. I am happy to take additional contributions to Human from people with a good eye, who can follow the lead of the chief artist there. This doesn't take away that most of the icons in the system should just come from Tangerine/Tango, as the Tango icon set is likely to be the style of icons for _all_ default application icons in the future. I think there is plenty of room for Ubuntu to establish a style of its own. I think Tango has been over-rated because it attempts to bind Gnome and KDE together in a way that they do not want to be bound together. I may well be wrong, which is why I don't discourage you from investing your time and energy in Tangerine, but I am confident in my opinion, which is why I'm investing my own time and energy this way. It will most definitely become very popular, and I don't think it is a good idea for Ubuntu to say no to that style because "we want it to be a little different". Distinctiveness is ESSENTIAL. I'm afraid I won't budge on that point. Tango will NEVER be the default theme for Ubuntu because it is entirely un-distinctive. I don't see why. The Tangerine/Tango set already exists, is more complete, has more people working on it, has a more open design process, also makes Ubuntu ready for the future concerning design consistency. Just because some people felt it was necessary to say no to it for Dapper doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible to re-evaluate it for Edgy. Read the above. You are welcome to make Tangerine good enough to be included in Edgy. Human isn't more complete than Tangerine/Tango. Sure, it's the custom-made icon theme for the distro, and that's a great thing, but I don't believe that this is valid rationale, concerning the criticism that I've given. I appreciate where you are coming from. I have heard you, but the decision is that Human will be the default for Edgy. I would encourage you to continue to improve Tangerine so that it is there as an option for the people who prefer it. Folks, this team has been spending an awful lot of time and energy with little direction. I'm givi
[ubuntu-art] SOFTWARE: Anyone have howto's?
With the recent Inkscape talk, I thought it might be nice if people could assemble some form of howto for each tool to take it up to the latest release. Off the top of my head I can think of: * Inkscape * Gimp * etc. If you know of the documentation (like dependency issues, etc.) please forward them to the list. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Re: ubuntu human palette now included in inkscape
yep, it's there. i deleted my old copy of inkscape. svn updated and built a new version and the ubuntu human palette is in there. i'm quite pleased with that. john m. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Starting the Edgy Eft release process
Hello artists, I have several important issues I want to inform you about, so please take the time to read through this e-mail if you want to get involved in the Edgy Eft release. First of all, Kenneth Wimer and I have been selected to be Artist in Chief for Kubuntu and Ubuntu respectively. This means that we will try to help everyone out when things are unclear, but we will also be the ones deciding on the direction of the distribution's artwork. Last week Troy, Kenneth and I attended the Ubuntu Developer Summit near Paris to lay down a solid foundation for the upcoming Edgy Eft release. For this release we have focused on getting a process in place which will make contributing artwork both more focused and easier for new members, and I've seen a lot lately, welcome onboard everyone and enjoy your stay! So, besides producing artwork, the Edgy Eft release will be a testbed for refining the artwork process for future releases. The process itself is outlined in the Wiki on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/ArtworkProcess As you can see, the process consists of five phases which follow up on eachother. For the Edgy release I applied this process to the schedule that the developers came up with. This concrete schedule is also up on the Wiki, available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan At the moment of writing this e-mail, the "Target Identification" and "Community Involvement" actions should be done by now. Consider this e-mail to be the "Community Involvement" action, so if anything is unclear after this, let the list know so everyone can stay up to date. The "Target Identification" phase was done during the Developer Summit last week, I will summarize this is in a follow up e-mail shortly. Next up in the process is the "Ponder" phase which is about coming up with general ideas, textures and colors for the default Human artwork. I will send out a kick-off e-mail for this phase after summarizing "Target Identification" earlier this evening. "Ponder" will take up the rest of this week and next week up until July 6th. Once I sent out the e-mails on the process phases, feel free to ask questions and make suggestions regarding the initial process plan. Moving on to the next important thing is that we have Kenneth Wimer, the Kubuntu Artist in Chief, actively participating on the ubuntu-art mailing list. We want you, the community, to provide ideas and artwork for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, so that both projects can benefit from a talented pool of artists. We want to actively share good ideas, compositions and more between Ubuntu and Kubuntu to bring the artwork for both projects to a higher level. We're very enthusiastic about this, we hope you are too. The last thing I want to let you know about in this e-mail is the introduction of the so-called Art Council. Troy has sent you all an e-mail earlier today about applying for a position there. I'm sure he will fill you in on the details if you have any questions on this subject. Let him know either via this list or personally via e-mail. I hope this all provides a valuable starting point for getting involved in the upcoming release cycle. The next three months will be all about getting high quality results in a structured manner. See my upcoming e-mails on how we're going to do this in practice. I'm looking forward to hearing from you all. With kind regards, Frank Schoep -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Re: Quick Update
Troy James Sobotka wrote: On Sun, 2006-25-06 at 19:21 +0200, Michiel Sikma wrote: I don't understand why it is so pertinently important to keep Human in. In all objectivity, it's simply a suboptimal icon set when compared to Tango. I also don't see why any of the arguments that I have given have to be ignored. Again, one man's meat is another man's poison. There are no clear hard and fast rules in art. The bottom line is that Human is the look. The icons are heading in that direction -- hence their name. The default 'look' for Ubuntu is Human. Period. Too bad we wont be able to contribute both to Ubuntu and GNOME upstream with Human, but Mark has been kind enough to include Tangerine as the fall back theme, so for those who want to contribute to stuff upstream, feel free to join the tangerine-effort! As Tangerine not being the default, well, for consistency sake (like having a similar look of all the icons on the entire interface, and there is quite a lot of icons in GNOME, a lot) being part of a bigger project would be nice, but it's Mark's distro and it's up to him to decide what to do. I'll continue to tinker with Tangerine a bit, but I'll probably do some more work directly for the application projects for this cycle. I personally don't believe in icons as branding, but see them rather as interface elements so I don't have any hard feelings about this stuff, it's mostly a philosophical thing anyway. :) - Andreas -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick Update
Hi, I have tried to explain how I see things to perhaps shed some light on the issue but it seems that we are not getting anywhere with this conversation. As pointed out in a previous mail from Mark to this list, the decision has been made and we have to live with it. This does not mean that other opinions are bad or unappreciated but rather that we need to work toward realistic goals instead of spending time discussing the merits of marketing, etc. while time is slipping away from us. Such ponderous discussion was, to some extent, the cause of problems during the Dapper cycle and we cannot allow this to happen again and again. Processes are being set in motion which will help everyone in the community to contribute in an organized manner. This system allows us to get the most out of the artwork by working together on our common goals while enabling teams of like-minded individuals to realize their ideas as well. I suggest that we use these to our advantage. Bye, Kenneth -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] ubuntu human palette now included in inkscape
hello all, a little while back i submitted the ubuntu human gimp palette as a patch for inkscape. today i got a message confirming that it had been accepted. i'll do a fresh subversion build of inkscape tonight to check. john michaelson. here's the relevant text from the email.. Initial Comment: this is the ubuntu human colour scheme in .gpl format from the ubuntu website. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official i've tested it by putting into /usr/share/inkscape/palettes and it works perfectly. john michaelson. -- Comment By: Colin Marquardt (cmarqu) Date: 2006-06-25 23:12 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=351245 Thanks, committed as revision 12504 to trunk. Can you please close this ticket? -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
