Re: [ubuntu-art] Final Version of the Clear Mockup

[Hylke Bons]

I like the mockup.
One thing though, for some reason, the unfocused window draws my 
attention more than the active window does, and that's not good! :)
Maybe you can try to just desaturate the active window color instead?

Hylke

Cory K. wrote:
> Salane Ashcraft wrote:
>   
>> This is it! My final version of Clear- it is now ready for coding!
>> 
>
> HaHaHa... I'm sure we'll all jump right on it. ;)
>
> -Cory \m/
>
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] New page on the Wiki

[Hylke Bons]

François Degrave wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I created a new page on the wiki with a mockup representing what I'd 
> like Ubuntu to look like in the (near) future: 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/NewWave
>
> Enjoy!
>
> François

I don't like the black very much (why do we need to follow Windows in 
everything? first the gloss, now the Vistaish black, even the gradient 
is almost the same).

However, I LOVE the wallpaper, it gives the feeling of freedom to me and 
that's what Linux is all about! :)
Do you have larger sizes around?

Maybe we can make more variations of it, with different landscapes and 
colors that are installed by default.

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
>
> The "to be included with Ubuntu 8.10" is a bit presumptuous but I think
> it's a good start. I've only offered to help get a package together for
> pretty complete themes that will go in the Universe repo.
>
> I'd get a wiki page up outlining what you're looking to achieve and
> sources for things you've done so people can help work on what you've
> done so far.
>
> -Cory \m/

Having it in the repo when it's done will be great. Thanks for the help 
Cory! :)

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

I'd like to lead a subteam too. :)
If you're interested: http://bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/extending-discovery/

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
>> separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
>> beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default.
>> 
>
> As I've said, what, 6 or so times now in may threads, If people actually
> come up with a complete, cohesive theme, I'll get it packaged and put in
> the repos.
>
> OrangeSun and Blubuntu are examples of "complete and cohesive" themes.
> That's the level of quality that should be strived for.
>
> -Cory \m/
But what will become the default then?

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Who wrote:
> This is the most important point on which our opinions differ: I think
> that, for now, we cannot expect to be able to predict what the
> 'default' theme must be - there ARE no guidelines and it seems that it
> is NOT the job of the artwork team to make these guidelines...  Please
> see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-November/004280.html
> - this was the last comprehensive attempt I made to get guidelines for
> default theme design sorted. As you will see, Kwwii answered many of
> the questions, but they really need to be asked again each release.
>
> I would argue that we shouldn't guess what will work  as a default.
> Pre Ubuntu would _anyone_ have suggested making brown a default? Or
> orange? If the decision was down to this team, Edgy could have looked
> very different, Dapper too. It wasn't then, it isn't now, and until we
> prove we can do quality stuff and work within the Ubuntu system, it
> won't be.
>   
Back to the 5 teams example. Let's say they would all go there own 
separate way each create something unique and "arty". They all deliver a 
beautiful theme but none of them seems usable enough to declare default. 
Although there are none/few guidelines for building a ubuntu theme, 
there are human interface guidelines to go with.
What I'm trying to say is, everyone has a different taste, and that's 
ok, but we shouldn't let people work on something that won't be at all 
usable yet pretty.
I think ubuntu already has a lot of alternative themes to choose from.

> One final thing on 'wasting time'. I strongly believe the releases in
> which this team has had most effort result in least results are the
> times we've been obsessed by making 'default' work, designing a new
> default theme, etc.  We *just don't know well enough what sabdfl
> likes, wants, and is thinking*. When Kwwii comes with a clear spec,
> clears plans, etc, (and I really don't want to suggest it is his fault
> we don't have these!)  then we can rally around them and do some great
> stuff for a default theme. Until then, we need to work be our own
> bosses, and make our own decisions. If WE make a theme, make it
> available ('sudo apt-get install rocking-theme-number-3') then we'll
> have done a lot of good work, and had a lot of fun.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Blubuntu
>
>   
Fun IS important!
I seriously think it would be a lot of fun if we'd all join forces on 
this one project, satisfying a lot of contributors that take the effort 
to sign up to the mailing list and make their wishes and ideas heard, 
rather than picking one out of 5 projects.

Coming to a default theme one way or the other, let's make sure we get 
the best of all themes where they fit, and leave stuff where others are 
lacking. :)

Hylke


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Who wrote:
> There is _one_ default theme, and a lot of people with vastly
> different ideas, pulling in lots of directions.
>
> If different people with different visions lead the teams in separate
> _parts_ of the main theme we get no overall style, decreased impact,
> decreased polish
>   
Of course the team leaders must be well experienced in their area and 
usability and have the same vision for the most part. The leaders will 
work closely with each other and passing the vision on to the team 
participants giving guidelines and such.

> BUT if the people with vision run theme teams we get
> - cohesive vision, complete theme
> - Much greater richness in Ubuntu design
> - Proof that the people on the artwork list can create something
> complete and convincing
>   
I agree. We have to find the right people.

> If you think that not having something you did as default means the
> time is wasted then this is NOT a place you are going to find
> reqarding UNTIL we have proved to sabdfl that we can do great work and
> better alternative for a default theme.
>   
> The style of work required to make something _towards_ being default
> is almost entirely opposite to the style of working required to make a
> complete and original theme in a short space of time.
The default will have to follow some guidelines. You can make something 
that's very creative and artistic and the most beautiful thing in the 
world, but it's never going to work as a default, and people know it. 
That's an example of "wasting time". We have to be clear and honest to 
each other what will not get in, can get in or is possible to get in 
with adjustments (all of these have passed the mailing list). At the 
time there is nobody that does this.

Hylke

> So we have this
> curious situation where the only way we could expect to make something
> capable of being the new default is to _forget about being default all
> together_!
>
> Who
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
>> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.  
>> 
>
> If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
> It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
> and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>
> -Cory \m/
Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for 
fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.

What I wanted to make clear is that it's a waste of time when a lot of 
teams put a huge amount of time in their themes when we all know the 
most are not going to make it. Instead I think it's better and "fairer" 
to set up teams by purpose. Like an icon team, gtk team, wallpaper team 
etc. So we are sure we get the best of all worlds and the team leaders 
can elaborate with each other about the direction and adjust the styles 
to each other and get one awesome style for 8.10!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Theme subteams

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
>> example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen.  
>> 
>
> If all someone wants to do is default art that's the wrong motivation.
> It ain't gonna happen. Ignoring getting into the default art is the best
> and most freeing way to go about it. No limits.
>
> -Cory \m/
Why is that the wrong motivation? Isn't that the goal for 8.10?
If someone wants to do a default theme to stroke their ego's or just for 
fun, I don't really care, it's the result that counts.

What I wanted to make clear is that it's a waste of time when a lot of 
teams put a huge amount of time in their themes when we all know the 
most are not going to make it. Instead I think it's better and "fairer" 
to set up teams by purpose. Like an icon team, gtk team, wallpaper team 
etc. So we are sure we get the best of all worlds and the team leaders 
can elaborate with each other about the direction and adjust the styles 
to each other and get one awesome style for 8.10!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Yet another ML vs. Forum thread

[Hylke Bons]

Cory K. wrote:
> If people are putting work they would actually like to be considered on
> the wiki (like they are supposed to) nothing will get lost. That's
> usually is how it goes.
>
> This is why we need to get back to the "sub-teams" idea. People who like
> a particular concept work together to get it done.  Only time will tell
> if anyone actually has the motivation to get it done.
>
> -Cory \m/
>   

I like the sub-teams idea. But I think it's  a little unfair to let for 
example 5 teams work on a full theme, while only one gets chosen. 
Someone has to give clear direction, and not be afraid to approve or 
discard ideas in an early stage. I think that's why it's been relatively 
quiet on this list lately. So many have good and bad ideas have passed, 
but because the lack of confirmation (and therefor motivation) will 
drive people away. That's ok if something is a bad idea, but we have to 
keep the good ideas around. As we say in The Netherlands: someone has to 
"cut the knot". :)

Hylke


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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Hylke Bons]

Damián Vila wrote:
>
> While I like forums a lot (specially over mailing lists), I have to 
> agree that ML have an advantage over forums: they are more readily 
> available than forums. Some people follow list from their jobs using 
> e-mail, and maybe some people don't have web access at all from their 
> jobs.
That sounds very unlikely, having mail and now WWW. Maybe it's a hint 
from your boss you should do your job. ;)

> Also, most people on the Art Team are used to it.
> But I have to say that, for the kind of work being done, even the 
> ML looks like unnecessary.
> If you have something to show, put it on the wiki, and just provide a 
> link to it for everybody else to see (if they already don't check the 
> wiki often.)
And that's exactly the two things that a forum does in one application.

> If you *really* want to know whats going on, attend the IRC meetings.
Of course the irc channel can stay.

> Sadly, most of what you can read at this list are arguments or well 
> intentioned comments. Sometimes some words of encouragement, but 
> rarely something that really leads to significant progress.
I think it will. There are lot's of great ideas on the mailing list (we 
could have had a final theme already from everything that passed by), 
but they disappear in your inbox.

Hylke



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Re: [ubuntu-art] STOP TOP POSTING!!!

[Hylke Bons]

François Degrave wrote:
> What I'd like is *to replace *this mailing list by a forum. In fact we 
> use this list the same way we would use a forum: we have discussions, we 
> propose ideas (which are often images). And many of us complain about 
> the fact that we lose track of hundreds of ideas because *once a mail is 
> read, it's forgotten by the majority*.
>
> A forum is just more adapted for what we try to do.
I agree here. A lot of ideas are getting lost in the bulk. I think a 
forum will be more practical for our goal.
In a forum we can group good designs and ideas, create stickies etc. A 
lot of the information is scattered all over the place right now.
I volunteer to set up a small forum if there's more support for this.

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Hylke Bons]

Sorry, didn't mean to send it 3 times. Something went wrong.

Hylke

Cory K. wrote:
> Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
>
> Hylke Bons wrote:
>   
>> Who cares!
>>   
>> 
>
> Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
>
>   
>> Please. Ubuntu. Art.
>> Let's get something done!
>>
>> Hylke
>>   
>> 
>
> Thanx for sending it 3 times. We need more spam.
>
> -Cory \m/
>
>   


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Hylke Bons]

Who cares!
Please. Ubuntu. Art.
Let's get something done!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Hylke Bons]

Who cares!
Please. Ubuntu. Art.
Let's get something done!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Stop top posting!

[Hylke Bons]

Who cares!
Please. Ubuntu. Art.
Let's get something done!

Hylke

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Re: [ubuntu-art] Wallpaper: Brown and exciting

[Hylke Bons]

Beautiful!
Using it.

Hylke





Dylan McCall wrote:
> I agree, that does look great! Very abstract, but actually unique -- 
> something that gets trickier by the minute.
>
> That picture seems a bit like I a deciduous tree would look if we were 
> to stare down at it from the top. May be a fun direction to look at!
>
> Bye,
> -Dylan McCall
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Cory K. <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Who wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I spent a few hours just playing the other night as I wanted to
> relax
> > and I ended up with the wallpaper that can be seen at
> >
> >
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/UbuntuExplosion
> >
> > Feedback would be much appreciated
> >
> > Who
>
> You know, I'm not one who usually adds to the "+1" or "OMG that
> roxorz"
> kinda noise but this is stunning. Really. This is sitting on my
> 24" LCD
> now and just looks gorgeous.
>
> -Cory
>
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>
>


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Where's the official proposed theme idea?

[Hylke Bons]

+1
Polise and shine, yet not overdone, perfect ubuntu feel, awesome! :)
I think all these things are possible, but it will be a huge task to 
implement it.

Hylke

Álvaro Medina Ballester wrote:
> Ken, this is one of the best Ubuntu themes I've ever seen!
>
> Cheers.
>
> 2007/12/15, Ken Vermette < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >:
>
> Hey; I know I'm probably very late to the party when it comes to
> submitting this stuff, but hopefully it's in time for either
> consideration or even just half-useful input.
>
> Other Wiki guys and myself have been working on the GTK and
> Emerald/Metacity themes; We've just gotten enough polish to be
> worth showing you guys:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals
> 
>
> It's still in draft-format, but it's completly SVG and would use
> the Murrine Engine with semitransparencies. There would be 4
> Emerald/Metacity themes, and 2 GTK themes, for varying hardware
> and an alternate colour theme for Blubuntu fans.
>
> I've kept track of the mailing list (and I was the Ken in the Art
> meeting, sorry to Wimer if people thought I was you) and I think I
> have (most) of the concepts discussed in the theme itself. Would
> this theme be worth modding or changing to be accepted as the
> default Ubuntu theme? Or should we just continue working on it and
> try throwing it in as an alt theme? Or is it too late to the party?
>
> -Ken Vermette
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Álvaro.


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Re: [ubuntu-art] Notification Area Icons

[Hylke Bons]

Why copy MacOS all the time?
The notification area isn't that bad right now, I think what looks ugly 
now is the inconsistent sizes and alignment.

Hylke


Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We have plans to do pretty much the same thing that you suggest. Depending on 
> what comes out of the art direction meeting a week from today we might just 
> make your dream come true.
>
> --
> Ken
>
> On Wednesday 28 November 2007 18:50:28 Dwight Shepherd wrote:
>   
>> I have been reading the mailing list and the idea has popped up from time
>> to time that we move away from the coloured icons in the notification area.
>>
>> and I stumbled upon this.
>> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Weather+Replacement+Icons?conten
>> t=70662
>>
>> I like the way the icons looked look "etched out".  Any other opinions?
>> 
>
>   


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