Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
Il giorno gio, 06/03/2008 alle 09.17 -0600, Matthew Nuzum ha scritto: > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Troy James Sobotka > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > Patch the code. Kludge it out when we have no other option. Let the > > >> > progression happen. > > > > > > In short, it isn't really perfectionism (well, a bit...), but it's > > > more a matter of maintainability. > > > > It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of the shortcomings. > > The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it where it is > > required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might be an > > example here. > > And let me point out two things: > > The open source moto is, "release early, release often." > > Also, there is a programming standard way to do denote this. You put a > comment in your source code near your hack followed by a TODO: and > what you want to change. Many programming editors will highlight this > line specially and some, like eclipse, will even show a todo list > below the source code editor listing each item. > > You also create a file in your source's root directory called TODO and > outline things you consider less than ideal. It's ok to use a hack if > its well documented and understood what you're trying to do. > > // TODO: is there a better way to show animated scroll bars? > // This is a HACK but it works > // (optional extra explanation if your code is particularly clever and hard > // to understand) > I have already tested animated scrollbars, they work, but they are so slw in acrobar reader, firefox etc etc... > -- > Matthew Nuzum > newz2000 on freenode > -- Andrea "Cimi" Cimitan - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Website: http://www.cimitan.com Murrine Author: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine GNOME Developer: http://www.gnome.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
Il giorno gio, 06/03/2008 alle 10.01 -0600, xl cheese ha scritto: > All of your are correct! > > 1. It's good to have stable software for end users. Most people > don't like things to crash or spending time debugging problems. We > need this school of thought for official released code. BUT- > > 2. It's also good to have people 'Kludging' up progressive new ideas. > Whether or not their code is great or not they are bringing new things > to the table which can eventually be polished off and absorbed by the > mainstream releases. > > We need both conservative AND forward thinkers. A good example has > already been presented. The Nodoka style is now part of the murrine > engine. Without someone 'hacking' away with Nodoka we would not have > that option now in a stable form. So instead of _laughing_ at them > and singing this to yourself in the shower, > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdjOEf1W4Y , you should send 'em some > brownies and a thank you card for their innovative ideas. YOu are wrong, Nodoka code was always part of Murrine, since it is just Murrine with a different name and hilight_ratio = 0.909090 hardcoded in the engine > > This is open source code not microsoft. If someone wants to make a > copy, rename it and change it up they should be encouraged to do so > and perhaps given a little guidance... No one's hand is being held to > the fire to install them. > > -wes > > > > > ______ > > > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:17:54 -0600 > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme > > > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Troy James Sobotka > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Patch the code. Kludge it out when we have no other option. > Let the > > > >> > progression happen. > > > > > > > > In short, it isn't really perfectionism (well, a bit...), but > it's > > > > more a matter of maintainability. > > > > > > It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of the > shortcomings. > > > The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it where it > is > > > required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might be > an > > > example here. > > > > And let me point out two things: > > > > The open source moto is, "release early, release often." > > > > Also, there is a programming standard way to do denote this. You put > a > > comment in your source code near your hack followed by a TODO: and > > what you want to change. Many programming editors will highlight > this > > line specially and some, like eclipse, will even show a todo list > > below the source code editor listing each item. > > > > You also create a file in your source's root directory called TODO > and > > outline things you consider less than ideal. It's ok to use a hack > if > > its well documented and understood what you're trying to do. > > > > // TODO: is there a better way to show animated scroll bars? > > // This is a HACK but it works > > // (optional extra explanation if your code is particularly clever > and hard > > // to understand) > > > > -- > > Matthew Nuzum > > newz2000 on freenode > > > > -- > > ubuntu-art mailing list > > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art > > > > __ > Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, > we give. Learn more. -- Andrea "Cimi" Cimitan - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Website: http://www.cimitan.com Murrine Author: http://www.cimitan.com/murrine GNOME Developer: http://www.gnome.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
All of your are correct! 1. It's good to have stable software for end users. Most people don't like things to crash or spending time debugging problems. We need this school of thought for official released code. BUT- 2. It's also good to have people 'Kludging' up progressive new ideas. Whether or not their code is great or not they are bringing new things to the table which can eventually be polished off and absorbed by the mainstream releases. We need both conservative AND forward thinkers. A good example has already been presented. The Nodoka style is now part of the murrine engine. Without someone 'hacking' away with Nodoka we would not have that option now in a stable form. So instead of _laughing_ at them and singing this to yourself in the shower, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdjOEf1W4Y , you should send 'em some brownies and a thank you card for their innovative ideas. This is open source code not microsoft. If someone wants to make a copy, rename it and change it up they should be encouraged to do so and perhaps given a little guidance... No one's hand is being held to the fire to install them. -wes > Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:17:54 -0600> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - > WAS Re: gtk theme> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Troy James Sobotka> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> > >> > Patch the code. Kludge it out when we > have no other option. Let the> > >> > progression happen.> > >> > > In short, > it isn't really perfectionism (well, a bit...), but it's> > > more a matter > of maintainability.> >> > It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of > the shortcomings.> > The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it > where it is> > required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might > be an> > example here.> > And let me point out two things:> > The open source > moto is, "release early, release often."> > Also, there is a programming > standard way to do denote this. You put a> comment in your source code near > your hack followed by a TODO: and> what you want to change. Many programming > editors will highlight this> line specially and some, like eclipse, will even > show a todo list> below the source code editor listing each item.> > You also > create a file in your source's root directory called TODO and> outline things > you consider less than ideal. It's ok to use a hack if> its well documented > and understood what you're trying to do.> > // TODO: is there a better way to > show animated scroll bars?> // This is a HACK but it works> // (optional > extra explanation if your code is particularly clever and hard> // to > understand)> > -- > Matthew Nuzum> newz2000 on freenode> > -- > ubuntu-art > mailing list> ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art _ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
> Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:06:46 -0800 > From: Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme > > It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of the shortcomings. > The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it where it is > required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might be an > example here. Animated progressbars are already an option in clearlooks and murrine, afaik. > Our track record for doing things _before_ other competing operating > systems do something is not exactly stellar. > > Putting in a kludge / hack accomplishes two things: > > 1) It clearly demonstrates the shortcoming in the current code set. > 2) Puts a little more pressure on the architecture to evolve _properly_. > > Heck. If it weren't for the kludges and hacks here and there, with the > respective sarcastic comments in the code, where would FOSS be at all? > Instead of putting in the hack, you could file a bug. Yeah, the devs are reluctant to add new stuff (especially in the Gnome side of things :P), but a good case can make its way into good implementation. > Sincerely, > TJS > OT: How do I get my ubuntu-art mail in single-message form rather than in digest form? ^_^' I'm actually starting to see your point. :) ^kd -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > Patch the code. Kludge it out when we have no other option. Let the > >> > progression happen. > > > > In short, it isn't really perfectionism (well, a bit...), but it's > > more a matter of maintainability. > > It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of the shortcomings. > The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it where it is > required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might be an > example here. And let me point out two things: The open source moto is, "release early, release often." Also, there is a programming standard way to do denote this. You put a comment in your source code near your hack followed by a TODO: and what you want to change. Many programming editors will highlight this line specially and some, like eclipse, will even show a todo list below the source code editor listing each item. You also create a file in your source's root directory called TODO and outline things you consider less than ideal. It's ok to use a hack if its well documented and understood what you're trying to do. // TODO: is there a better way to show animated scroll bars? // This is a HACK but it works // (optional extra explanation if your code is particularly clever and hard // to understand) -- Matthew Nuzum newz2000 on freenode -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Hacking / Kludging - WAS Re: gtk theme
>> > Patch the code. Kludge it out when we have no other option. Let the >> > progression happen. > (First post here. I'd like to say hi! :D) I don't know if I'm in any > position to say this, but if you do things in a hackish way, you do > advance, but at the expense of having more and more unmaintainable > code. Sure, we'll go forward, but it will take more and more work to > move any further. Put more hacks, and the code starts to become too > much of a mess to even touch. (I don't have a good example here, > though.) > > In short, it isn't really perfectionism (well, a bit...), but it's > more a matter of maintainability. It certainly isn't optimal, and I am well aware of the shortcomings. The point isn't to kludge / hack _everything_, but do it where it is required to achieve an innovation. Animated progressbars might be an example here. Our track record for doing things _before_ other competing operating systems do something is not exactly stellar. Putting in a kludge / hack accomplishes two things: 1) It clearly demonstrates the shortcoming in the current code set. 2) Puts a little more pressure on the architecture to evolve _properly_. Heck. If it weren't for the kludges and hacks here and there, with the respective sarcastic comments in the code, where would FOSS be at all? Sincerely, TJS signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
