Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
Am Mittwoch, den 04.03.2009, 22:07 -0500 schrieb John Baer: On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 12:00 +, Oliver Scholtz wrote: Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:22:15 +0100 From: Oliver Scholtz scholli...@yahoo.de Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5 To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Message-ID: 123615.14495.1.ca...@kubuntu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, what about this Metacity? It's a permitted round button :D Sincerly Oliver Scholtz -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ubuntu_impression.png Type: image/png Size: 782 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20090304/574ec11a/attachment-0001.png +1 I had the same idea but was unable to make it work. Thanks! and it's very very mega branding: -1 :) But the Dot is the most simple and sometimes the most simple is the always best. I searched in gnome-look and kde-look. So I saw that the rounded things are the best voted... A clear +1 for Mac, they was the fisrt to have this idea. :( Nevermind I attach you what I found right now ... This with coulours and without symbols OR with decent symbols should have a nice look. It's not squared and not round ... a twitter. :) Sincerly Oliver Scholtz PS: Don't have more ideas ... sorry. attachment: fran.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM, John Baer bae...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 06:54 +, Jonathan Blackhall wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I don't quite get the circles. What do they tell me about their purpose? If I didn't already know what the 3 buttons at the top right of the screen did, I wouldn't know what these buttons do. Isn't the purpose of the buttons to be at least loosely descriptive of what the user can expect when they press them? I'm also not familiar with OS X, so I have the same trouble with their red, yellow and green. I'm not normally a fan of the Ubuntu should not try to be like OS X argument, but I think in this case it's relevant. Why are you trying to mimic what I'd consider to be a poor design choice? Jonathan, Thank you for the question. The desire to use circles for frame control widgets is not from OSX. The symbolism comes from the Ubuntu logo. As the Impression theme design is based on Ubuntu, IMO it makes sense. As the widgets are small it is difficult to craft icons which display detail. However, if you hover your mouse over the widget a description is display which should novice users. John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Hi, I'd like to chime in here. I understand both sides of the don't be like like OSX argument and say that I beleive that we should at least to some extent attempt to differentiate ourselves from OSX and other OS'es as well, to create a unique branding, rather than come off as copycats. Although, if we are able to take the 3 circle theme and make it ours then we are just as well off. My only question is whether we will be able to pull that off or whether people will always associate the 3 circles with OSX, rather than Ubuntu. As far as usability goes, I beleive that the colors themselves convey the use. Which unfortunately means that it will not be very accessible to color blind people. For Macintosh, who's market is mainly artists, this is not a huge problem. But for Ubuntu, who prides itself on accessibility to all, this could pose a significant issue. I'm not sure that hovering to find the use is a very convenient idea. Since color blind folks may not remember it anyways if they can't tell the diffrenece between yellow and orange. Just my 2¢ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Joseph yhar...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM, John Baer bae...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 06:54 +, Jonathan Blackhall wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I don't quite get the circles. What do they tell me about their purpose? If I didn't already know what the 3 buttons at the top right of the screen did, I wouldn't know what these buttons do. Isn't the purpose of the buttons to be at least loosely descriptive of what the user can expect when they press them? I'm also not familiar with OS X, so I have the same trouble with their red, yellow and green. I'm not normally a fan of the Ubuntu should not try to be like OS X argument, but I think in this case it's relevant. Why are you trying to mimic what I'd consider to be a poor design choice? Jonathan, Thank you for the question. The desire to use circles for frame control widgets is not from OSX. The symbolism comes from the Ubuntu logo. As the Impression theme design is based on Ubuntu, IMO it makes sense. As the widgets are small it is difficult to craft icons which display detail. However, if you hover your mouse over the widget a description is display which should novice users. John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Hi, I'd like to chime in here. I understand both sides of the don't be like like OSX argument and say that I beleive that we should at least to some extent attempt to differentiate ourselves from OSX and other OS'es as well, to create a unique branding, rather than come off as copycats. Although, if we are able to take the 3 circle theme and make it ours then we are just as well off. My only question is whether we will be able to pull that off or whether people will always associate the 3 circles with OSX, rather than Ubuntu. As far as usability goes, I beleive that the colors themselves convey the use. Which unfortunately means that it will not be very accessible to color blind people. For Macintosh, who's market is mainly artists, this is not a huge problem. But for Ubuntu, who prides itself on accessibility to all, this could pose a significant issue. I'm not sure that hovering to find the use is a very convenient idea. Since color blind folks may not remember it anyways if they can't tell the diffrenece between yellow and orange. Just my 2¢ Ok, I presented a problem. Now here is my solution. There are 2 ways to make visual components accessible to everyone: through use of color profiles, or use of shapes. Implementing color profiles for our purposes, will most likely be rather complicated. So the easiest idea seems to be changing the shapes of the buttons. Before we decide which shapes to use, let us consider the anatomy of window manager buttons. What do I mean by this? I mean that IMHO each of the 3 window manager buttons have their own visual cue words which may be associated with them. Maximize = exanding, increasing, moving Minimize = shrinking, decreasing, slowing Close = closing, bold/strong, stopping So how can we express these visual cues, without sacrificing our idea of colored circles? Well, the first way is by placing shapes within circles, which many will automatically people will shake their heads at, due to the complexity of such a design. So my solution is as follows: change the *outline thickness* of the circles to reflect the action that it represents. For example: Maximize = bold outline Minimize = thin outline Close = filled cirlce or very thick outline (see attached picture for details) I beleive that this solution will allow us to retain our original color cues and basic shapes, as well as create a unique branding that may only be associated with Ubuntu. Please let me hear your feedback! :) attachment: window-button-concept.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Thu, 2009-03-05 at 14:38 +, Joseph wrote: Message: 1 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:41:05 -0500 From: Joseph yhar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5 To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Message-ID: e0587bcb0903050541r873662ax937da6111baf5...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Joseph yhar...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Joseph yhar...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 9:44 PM, John Baer bae...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, 2009-03-01 at 06:54 +, Jonathan Blackhall wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I don't quite get the circles. What do they tell me about their purpose? If I didn't already know what the 3 buttons at the top right of the screen did, I wouldn't know what these buttons do. Isn't the purpose of the buttons to be at least loosely descriptive of what the user can expect when they press them? I'm also not familiar with OS X, so I have the same trouble with their red, yellow and green. I'm not normally a fan of the Ubuntu should not try to be like OS X argument, but I think in this case it's relevant. Why are you trying to mimic what I'd consider to be a poor design choice? Jonathan, Thank you for the question. The desire to use circles for frame control widgets is not from OSX. The symbolism comes from the Ubuntu logo. As the Impression theme design is based on Ubuntu, IMO it makes sense. As the widgets are small it is difficult to craft icons which display detail. However, if you hover your mouse over the widget a description is display which should novice users. John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Hi, I'd like to chime in here. I understand both sides of the don't be like like OSX argument and say that I beleive that we should at least to some extent attempt to differentiate ourselves from OSX and other OS'es as well, to create a unique branding, rather than come off as copycats. Although, if we are able to take the 3 circle theme and make it ours then we are just as well off. My only question is whether we will be able to pull that off or whether people will always associate the 3 circles with OSX, rather than Ubuntu. As far as usability goes, I beleive that the colors themselves convey the use. Which unfortunately means that it will not be very accessible to color blind people. For Macintosh, who's market is mainly artists, this is not a huge problem. But for Ubuntu, who prides itself on accessibility to all, this could pose a significant issue. I'm not sure that hovering to find the use is a very convenient idea. Since color blind folks may not remember it anyways if they can't tell the diffrenece between yellow and orange. Just my 2? Ok, I presented a problem. Now here is my solution. There are 2 ways to make visual components accessible to everyone: through use of color profiles, or use of shapes. Implementing color profiles for our purposes, will most likely be rather complicated. So the easiest idea seems to be changing the shapes of the buttons. Before we decide which shapes to use, let us consider the anatomy of window manager buttons. What do I mean by this? I mean that IMHO each of the 3 window manager buttons have their own visual cue words which may be associated with them. Maximize = exanding, increasing, moving Minimize = shrinking, decreasing, slowing Close = closing, bold/strong, stopping So how can we express these visual cues, without sacrificing our idea of colored circles? Well, the first way is by placing shapes within circles, which many will automatically people will shake their heads at, due to the complexity of such a design. So my solution is as follows: change the *outline thickness* of the circles to reflect the action that it represents. For example: Maximize = bold outline Minimize = thin outline Close = filled cirlce or very thick outline (see attached picture for details) I beleive that this solution will allow us to retain our original color cues and basic shapes, as well as create a unique branding that may only be associated with Ubuntu. Please let me hear your feedback! :) Thanks for the feed back! I will give it a try this weekend. John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 12:00 +, Oliver Scholtz wrote: Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 03:22:15 +0100 From: Oliver Scholtz scholli...@yahoo.de Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5 To: Discussion on Ubuntu artwork ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com Message-ID: 123615.14495.1.ca...@kubuntu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, what about this Metacity? It's a permitted round button :D Sincerly Oliver Scholtz -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ubuntu_impression.png Type: image/png Size: 782 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/attachments/20090304/574ec11a/attachment-0001.png +1 I had the same idea but was unable to make it work. Thanks! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
John, what about this Metacity? It's a permitted round button :D Sincerly Oliver Scholtz attachment: ubuntu_impression.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Oliver Scholtz scholli...@yahoo.de wrote: John, what about this Metacity? It's a permitted round button :D Sincerly Oliver Scholtz -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art I would do it, but then there is that rule about heavy branding... :( -- Ubuntu FTW! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Metacity If allowed I will make some sketch-ideas for possible Metacities-Buttons this evening or tomorrow ;) For no misunderstand, I like the first (only round) very much. Only I don't get warm with it, because it's too similar to the Mac-Design. :) Sincerly Oliver Scholtz Thank you ... John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
Am Montag, den 02.03.2009, 12:06 -0500 schrieb John Baer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Metacity If allowed I will make some sketch-ideas for possible Metacities-Buttons this evening or tomorrow ;) For no misunderstand, I like the first (only round) very much. Only I don't get warm with it, because it's too similar to the Mac-Design. :) Sincerly Oliver Scholtz Thank you ... John Sorry ... nearly I forgot it :) Here some ideas from me ... Sincerly Oliver Scholtz attachment: impression-sketches.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Metacity If allowed I will make some sketch-ideas for possible Metacities-Buttons this evening or tomorrow ;) For no misunderstand, I like the first (only round) very much. Only I don't get warm with it, because it's too similar to the Mac-Design. :) Sincerly Oliver Scholtz -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:59 PM, John Baer bae...@gmail.com wrote: The Alpha 5 release of Impression is a milestone in the fact I am now testing against Jaunty and not Intrepid. Murrine is up to svn143 and other than the progress bar trough issue everything works well. The alpha 5 changes are minor with my attention focused toward updating the documentation and refining Metacity. IMO Metacity is close. I updated the wiki pages with two designs. Both designs use rings as the frame control. I started with a solid default ring and then decided to add a dashed ring. I am currently using the dash version and I must say it does present well and there are not other similar themes I am aware of. Here's my idea for something better than the circles, but which follows the sort of outline-color-changing that I really like in your example. They even look pretty decent in dashed presentation, IMO. attachment: glyphs.svgattachment: glyphs.png-- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
The Alpha 5 release of Impression is a milestone in the fact I am now testing against Jaunty and not Intrepid. Murrine is up to svn143 and other than the progress bar trough issue everything works well. The alpha 5 changes are minor with my attention focused toward updating the documentation and refining Metacity. IMO Metacity is close. I updated the wiki pages with two designs. Both designs use rings as the frame control. I started with a solid default ring and then decided to add a dashed ring. I am currently using the dash version and I must say it does present well and there are not other similar themes I am aware of. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Metacity I added a new page which attempts to document the Gtkrc file. I plan to polish this content as time permits. Please report any errors. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Gtkrc John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:59 PM, John Baer bae...@gmail.com wrote: The Alpha 5 release of Impression is a milestone in the fact I am now testing against Jaunty and not Intrepid. Murrine is up to svn143 and other than the progress bar trough issue everything works well. The alpha 5 changes are minor with my attention focused toward updating the documentation and refining Metacity. IMO Metacity is close. I updated the wiki pages with two designs. Both designs use rings as the frame control. I started with a solid default ring and then decided to add a dashed ring. I am currently using the dash version and I must say it does present well and there are not other similar themes I am aware of. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Metacity I added a new page which attempts to document the Gtkrc file. I plan to polish this content as time permits. Please report any errors. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/Gtkrc John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art /me literally salivated after looking at that -- Ubuntu FTW! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Impression Alpha 5
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 12:54 AM, Jonathan Blackhall johnny.one@gmail.com wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but I don't quite get the circles. What do they tell me about their purpose? If I didn't already know what the 3 buttons at the top right of the screen did, I wouldn't know what these buttons do. Isn't the purpose of the buttons to be at least loosely descriptive of what the user can expect when they press them? I'm also not familiar with OS X, so I have the same trouble with their red, yellow and green. I'm not normally a fan of the Ubuntu should not try to be like OS X argument, but I think in this case it's relevant. Why are you trying to mimic what I'd consider to be a poor design choice? I absolutely agree. Why are we keep creating icons which represent nothing? If the buttons to close, maximize, and minimize windows are not clearly marked, then that is a usability bug and a bad design decision. Apple does it is a mark against them in this case, not something we should emulate. I like the idea of an outline which turns colored upon mouse-over. Could you create similar outlines which represent shapes associated with maximize, minimize, and exit actions? Ryan -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
