Re: [ubuntu-art] Kyūdō: Mesage
2008/10/7 Thorsten Wilms [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 11:00 +0200, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: I do not necessarily agree that Ubuntu *is* these things all the way through, but I agree that this is some of the things that we *want* Ubuntu to be. Regarding the actual items allow me to comment. The message is not necessarily restricted to what Ubuntu appears to be now. This is because perception _is_ truth here, to some degree. Thus I added a note: The message is not restricted to what anyone thinks of Ubuntu now, but is entirely about it should be seen in the future. Ok, good. Item three definitely stands out in a good way. The good things about the wording in 3 is: Short. Very clear. Friendly, non formal, tone. Good picture to describe the idea. Regarding these things 1 is worst and 2 is somewhere in the middle. Maybe they could be reformulated to be more in the style of 3? How about: * distinct from other offerings. That means there has to be something about the design that you do not find elsewhere. * a viable alternative of professional quality. Stand out not like a clown, but like a champion. Much better :-) One item I personally miss a bit (that is partially covered, but not entirely) by the other items is something like * Professional. While Ubuntu is partly driven by volunteers it is professional in execution I tried to make that clear in the 2nd proposal above, as I don't think it can be split from the appearance of being being a viable alternative. Yes. I think this covers my intentions. Extended Message. Ubuntu is * based on cooperation and sharing * global * about software freedom How about: * Forthcoming/Welcoming ? Good one. Should be first, actually. Friendly and welcoming, as forthcoming sounds a bit like it would act on its own before you ask, I think :) Yeah, Friendly and welcoming is much better than my proposals. I am glad you are the one writing the docs ;-) That's where I stopped. Hope it is useful. Your entire post is exactly the kind of input I am hoping for. Thank you, Mikkel! You are most welcome :-) -- Cheers, Mikkel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Kyūdō: Mesage
2008/10/6 Thorsten Wilms [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi! I worked on the message a bit: One thing that struck me just now is that in order to get Kyudo across it is of utmost importance that the designers actually read the entire documentation. And to be honest this is not a thing FOSS enthusiasts are renowned to be good at. That said I think you are already doing a great job on making the Kyudo docs readable. The comments I make here are with the special emphasis to make the documentation an easier read. Impression on sight, not necessarily using it. Ubuntu is: * distinct from other offerings. The design language needs to be distinct. There can be unique aspects or a unique combination of aspects. * a viable alternative. A perception of value beyond mere difference. Stand out not like a clown, but a winner. * is desirable. Something between chocolate and a sports car. I do not necessarily agree that Ubuntu *is* these things all the way through, but I agree that this is some of the things that we *want* Ubuntu to be. Regarding the actual items allow me to comment. Item three definitely stands out in a good way. The good things about the wording in 3 is: Short. Very clear. Friendly, non formal, tone. Good picture to describe the idea. Regarding these things 1 is worst and 2 is somewhere in the middle. Maybe they could be reformulated to be more in the style of 3? One item I personally miss a bit (that is partially covered, but not entirely) by the other items is something like * Professional. While Ubuntu is partly driven by volunteers it is professional in execution On use, trust must be established. Ubuntu is: * trustworthy * straightforward * reliable * forgiving Maybe scrap one of 'trustworthy' and 'reliable'. I know they are not exactly the same but they do overlap to some degree. Keeping the list concise should be top priority. Extended Message. Ubuntu is * based on cooperation and sharing * global * about software freedom How about: * Forthcoming/Welcoming ? While I do have some more ideas, I would like to here everyone's thoughts about possible additions and especially the means that could be used to get each point across. For example: What do you think how Trustworthy looks like? Interesting task :-) Here's my simplified train of thoughts... * My first thought was a chain of metaphors. Trustworthy. Animals. Horse, elephant, dog. Then scrap dog and elephant because they are highly culturally dependent. Horses are held in high esteem in most cultures. Hmmm... Horses can not be the base of a design idea for a desktop... What else do we have? * Banks? No not in these times ;-) * Family? Friends? Very abstract concepts. Hard to visualize. * Try something else. What's the converse of Trustworthy? - Somebody trying to trick you. These people will often: o Try to impress you o Try to distract you - Someone furthering their own needs with disregard of other people - Hard to perceive - Changing from time to time * So to approach Trustworthy one could try to achieve the opposite of the above (ie. a double negation): - Don't try to impress - Simple without distractions - Be there 100% to help the user, don't show of how cool you are with the Gimp - Easy overview of the screen - Keep strong visual coherence between releases of Ubuntu That's where I stopped. Hope it is useful. -- Cheers, Mikkel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Kyūdō: Mesage
On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 11:00 +0200, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote: That said I think you are already doing a great job on making the Kyudo docs readable. The comments I make here are with the special emphasis to make the documentation an easier read. Thanks and agreed. I'm open for suggestions and willing to discuss every word to improve the readability. It's easy to get carried away and end up with unnecessarily complex writing. Impression on sight, not necessarily using it. Ubuntu is: * distinct from other offerings. The design language needs to be distinct. There can be unique aspects or a unique combination of aspects. * a viable alternative. A perception of value beyond mere difference. Stand out not like a clown, but a winner. * is desirable. Something between chocolate and a sports car. I do not necessarily agree that Ubuntu *is* these things all the way through, but I agree that this is some of the things that we *want* Ubuntu to be. Regarding the actual items allow me to comment. The message is not necessarily restricted to what Ubuntu appears to be now. This is because perception _is_ truth here, to some degree. Thus I added a note: The message is not restricted to what anyone thinks of Ubuntu now, but is entirely about it should be seen in the future. Item three definitely stands out in a good way. The good things about the wording in 3 is: Short. Very clear. Friendly, non formal, tone. Good picture to describe the idea. Regarding these things 1 is worst and 2 is somewhere in the middle. Maybe they could be reformulated to be more in the style of 3? How about: * distinct from other offerings. That means there has to be something about the design that you do not find elsewhere. * a viable alternative of professional quality. Stand out not like a clown, but like a champion. One item I personally miss a bit (that is partially covered, but not entirely) by the other items is something like * Professional. While Ubuntu is partly driven by volunteers it is professional in execution I tried to make that clear in the 2nd proposal above, as I don't think it can be split from the appearance of being being a viable alternative. On use, trust must be established. Ubuntu is: * trustworthy * straightforward * reliable * forgiving Maybe scrap one of 'trustworthy' and 'reliable'. I know they are not exactly the same but they do overlap to some degree. Keeping the list concise should be top priority. Well, trustworthy should be about the upfront impression, while reliable comes into play on interaction. I'll drop reliable though, as the means to get this across will be all the same. Extended Message. Ubuntu is * based on cooperation and sharing * global * about software freedom How about: * Forthcoming/Welcoming ? Good one. Should be first, actually. Friendly and welcoming, as forthcoming sounds a bit like it would act on its own before you ask, I think :) For example: What do you think how Trustworthy looks like? * My first thought was a chain of metaphors. Trustworthy. Animals. Horse, elephant, dog. Then scrap dog and elephant because they are highly culturally dependent. Horses are held in high esteem in most cultures. Hmmm... Horses can not be the base of a design idea for a desktop... What else do we have? * Banks? No not in these times ;-) * Family? Friends? Very abstract concepts. Hard to visualize. * Try something else. What's the converse of Trustworthy? - Somebody trying to trick you. These people will often: o Try to impress you o Try to distract you - Someone furthering their own needs with disregard of other people - Hard to perceive - Changing from time to time * So to approach Trustworthy one could try to achieve the opposite of the above (ie. a double negation): - Don't try to impress - Simple without distractions - Be there 100% to help the user, don't show of how cool you are with the Gimp - Easy overview of the screen - Keep strong visual coherence between releases of Ubuntu Excellent! I will build on this. That's where I stopped. Hope it is useful. Your entire post is exactly the kind of input I am hoping for. Thank you, Mikkel! -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Kyūdō: Mesage
Hi! I worked on the message a bit: -- Impression on sight, not necessarily using it. Ubuntu is: * distinct from other offerings. The design language needs to be distinct. There can be unique aspects or a unique combination of aspects. * a viable alternative. A perception of value beyond mere difference. Stand out not like a clown, but a winner. * is desirable. Something between chocolate and a sports car. On use, trust must be established. Ubuntu is: * trustworthy * straightforward * reliable * forgiving Extended Message. Ubuntu is * based on cooperation and sharing * global * about software freedom -- While I do have some more ideas, I would like to here everyone's thoughts about possible additions and especially the means that could be used to get each point across. For example: What do you think how Trustworthy looks like? -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
