Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, While we are getting new submissions for each task, there seems to be less activity here regarding the submissions and it is not clear that there were submissions even. If anyone had to check the new submissions they will have to keep checking the respective flickr groups *daily* for submissions. Not everyone would be doing that. Only the people running the tasks would look into it fairly regularly. We need to get more eyes on the submissions. More people expressing their views/opinions/critique on the submissions. Announcements will also help get a review earlier than the deadline and time for tweaks. Ensuing discussion might create new/better ideas. Let's make announcement of the submissions mandatory and make sure it is mentioned in every task page. While I can see clearly the benefits of announcing the submissions to the mailing list, I totally fail understanding why it must be mandatory? Is it that difficult to check the flickr groups once in a while? Do you know how much time it takes to click a few links and check a couple of galleries vs. the time spent creating a wallpaper? Personally, I'll be more than happy to see my submissions discussed on the list, but I won't make any announcements. Now the question would be, what if someone has not announced and the submission is too good to miss out? If someone finds a submission sitting in the collection pool un-announced for more than a week, just announce it for the submitter. (not necessary that the submitter needs to be the one who announces.) And, let's make sure the submitter is notified that their submission is being discussed here. Would we still miss a few submissions? Maybe. If no one is excited enough about the submission to make the proxy-announcement either, would it have been selected? Maybe not. But, skipping out on a few submissions seems a trade off to growing and building a larger community. What do others think? Shall we make this mandatory? -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 09:02 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: We need to get more eyes on the submissions. More people expressing their views/opinions/critique on the submissions. Announcements will also help get a review earlier than the deadline and time for tweaks. Ensuing discussion might create new/better ideas. Let's make announcement of the submissions mandatory and make sure it is mentioned in every task page. While I can see clearly the benefits of announcing the submissions to the mailing list, I totally fail understanding why it must be mandatory? This is not about the active members. They will always check the submissions. My main intention is to get more *active* participation from members, to grow this artwork community, share opinions/views from throughout the world, everyone grows as better designers and eventually this team gets to able to push some serious design work. How many members have been active on this list? max 20 members? While, the total number of members subscribed here are 1040 (574 Non-digest Members and 466 Digest Members) Let's say that even ~80% of the subscribers are here for help or just out of curiosity. Dont we have even ~20% composition of artists and budding artists?(around 200?). Why are they not excited? Why dont we hear their voices, their opinions? Some have expressed interest in learning. Discussions would be a good learning experience for people who want to learn and hone their skills. Once they get confident, we would hear their thoughts too. Art is highly subjective and can always benefit from more eyes viewing it. What is good in one locale is not sensible everywhere. For example: A design including a Swastika might be good in India, but is not right for a global audience. Everyone notices different things in a design, like a recent example, of where Thorsten noticed two people pushing a brush in the third guys face. Not many had noticed this before he mentioned it. Designs are not just about pretty pictures, an artist needs to express an idea, convey a meaning. There needs to be a concept, a clear direction. Hearing more opinions will open our minds to concepts/ideas we would have never thought about. Is it that difficult to check the flickr groups once in a while? Do you know how much time it takes to click a few links and check a couple of galleries vs. the time spent creating a wallpaper? As I mentioned, it does not take long for the 20 people who are active. Are other's viewing the submissions? How do we get others excited? It does not take too long to just send a mail to the list saying, I submitted #foo at : link . The idea is ... After doing hours worth of work to create a submission, would spending 5mins to send a mail be so difficult? Basically, we need to grow as a better design community. The more we stay silent, the less we are going to be able to accomplish. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 09:02 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: We need to get more eyes on the submissions. More people expressing their views/opinions/critique on the submissions. Announcements will also help get a review earlier than the deadline and time for tweaks. Ensuing discussion might create new/better ideas. Let's make announcement of the submissions mandatory and make sure it is mentioned in every task page. While I can see clearly the benefits of announcing the submissions to the mailing list, I totally fail understanding why it must be mandatory? This is not about the active members. They will always check the submissions. My main intention is to get more *active* participation from members, to grow this artwork community, share opinions/views from throughout the world, everyone grows as better designers and eventually this team gets to able to push some serious design work. How many members have been active on this list? max 20 members? While, the total number of members subscribed here are 1040 (574 Non-digest Members and 466 Digest Members) Let's say that even ~80% of the subscribers are here for help or just out of curiosity. Dont we have even ~20% composition of artists and budding artists?(around 200?). Why are they not excited? Why dont we hear their voices, their opinions? That's not an exclusive issue of this list/group. It's like that virtually in every single FOSS project/community. Most people are lurkers and will never post to a mailing list. I've been subscribed to this list since 2006 or 2007 and my first message to the list was just a couple of months ago. Some have expressed interest in learning. Discussions would be a good learning experience for people who want to learn and hone their skills. Once they get confident, we would hear their thoughts too. Art is highly subjective and can always benefit from more eyes viewing it. What is good in one locale is not sensible everywhere. For example: A design including a Swastika might be good in India, but is not right for a global audience. Everyone notices different things in a design, like a recent example, of where Thorsten noticed two people pushing a brush in the third guys face. Not many had noticed this before he mentioned it. Designs are not just about pretty pictures, an artist needs to express an idea, convey a meaning. There needs to be a concept, a clear direction. Hearing more opinions will open our minds to concepts/ideas we would have never thought about. Agreed. But forcing people, or making it mandatory to submit an announcement to the mailing is not going to make it happen. An interest approach is what John is doing with his weekly summary of what's going on in the community (The Brickyard). Maybe we should think of creating an official weekly newsletter for this group with links to new submissions? Is it that difficult to check the flickr groups once in a while? Do you know how much time it takes to click a few links and check a couple of galleries vs. the time spent creating a wallpaper? As I mentioned, it does not take long for the 20 people who are active. Are other's viewing the submissions? How do we get others excited? It does not take too long to just send a mail to the list saying, I submitted #foo at : link . The idea is ... After doing hours worth of work to create a submission, would spending 5mins to send a mail be so difficult? Yes. I'm active in several teams/projects (not only Ubuntu related stuff), so adding +5mins to my current workflow is not an option. Basically, we need to grow as a better design community. The more we stay silent, the less we are going to be able to accomplish. ...and that's why we need to find out ways to inspire people, not making up rules or block new contributions. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:55 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: As I mentioned, it does not take long for the 20 people who are active. Are other's viewing the submissions? How do we get others excited? It does not take too long to just send a mail to the list saying, I submitted #foo at : link . The idea is ... After doing hours worth of work to create a submission, would spending 5mins to send a mail be so difficult? Yes. I'm active in several teams/projects (not only Ubuntu related stuff), so adding +5mins to my current workflow is not an option. As I mentioned, it need not be mandatory that the artist needs to announce it personally. Anyone can proxy for the artist. And if nobody finds the design interesting enough to announce, is the design really worth skipping out on? IMO, maybe. But in the end the gains are much more. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:55 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: An interest approach is what John is doing with his weekly summary of what's going on in the community (The Brickyard). Maybe we should think of creating an official weekly newsletter for this group with links to new submissions? This is again only creating more work on the active members, rather than growing the community. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 11:55 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: An interest approach is what John is doing with his weekly summary of what's going on in the community (The Brickyard). Maybe we should think of creating an official weekly newsletter for this group with links to new submissions? This is again only creating more work on the active members, rather than growing the community. I see the glass half full here... it's an excellent opportunity for an inactive member to step up and get involved. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
As for me, I do have time to read the list and post my thoughts, but I don't have time to look through some specs, dig out the links, and check if there are any new submissions in the groups. And even if I bookmark it it would be rather difficult to remember to do it because it doesn't fit in my daily routine, and I already have a bunch of links to visit regularly. But if I would receive a notification of sorts about a new submission (or maybe a digest?), it would be much more convenient. I personally think that a line dropped to the list by a real person would make everybody feel more involved, will evolve more team-like ant truly collaborative workflow. You know, I used to maintain an Ubuntu remix myself, in cooperation with several other people over the Internet. And at some point I realized that nobody (including me) works at full creative power because nobody actually feels involved. After watching Making of The Lion King I realized that if we'd met in person we'd do all the work on a new release in a week (it took us 7 months already and the remix is not finished yet). When someone makes something new and says hey guys, look what I've done! immediately, people share opinions, new ideas arise, everybody gets inspired along the way. Automated emails or blogging once a while will never cause that effect, and the real team workflow will never be achieved. Everything will be still done the every man for himself manner. On the other hand, making a list like post X to A, post Y to B, post Z to C should be avoided because it scares people away. Artists don't mind creating wallpapers - that's their job, it's usually interesting for them and they are familiar with it. But mastering the wiki or going through a lot of bureaucracy is not. Maybe it's a good idea to make this list the primary place to post submissions, and post submissions to Flickr only when they're discussed and finalized. it seems to eliminate both problems. Respectfully, -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff, an ex-wiki-admin and a person who failed to build up a creative community and is learning from his own mistakes. P.S. Some very easy-to-use submission form would be even more encouraging, will make it easier to get started (and get involved). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 12:33 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: This is again only creating more work on the active members, rather than growing the community. I see the glass half full here... it's an excellent opportunity for an inactive member to step up and get involved. I'm not sure how many new members would step up to take a full responsibility like that. Even so wouldnt that just be a proxy announcement for the artist? Why not allow the artist to announce that directly? And any missing exciting ones can be announced by the new members ? -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 12:33 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: This is again only creating more work on the active members, rather than growing the community. I see the glass half full here... it's an excellent opportunity for an inactive member to step up and get involved. I'm not sure how many new members would step up to take a full responsibility like that. It's our fault if people don't step up. That means that we failed to inspire others to get involved in the community. Even so wouldnt that just be a proxy announcement for the artist? Why not allow the artist to announce that directly? And any missing exciting ones can be announced by the new members ? I completely understand your reasoning and your intentions behind this. I'm just annoyed to see yet another bureaucratic process being added to the list. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
2010/12/10 Leandro Gómez leo.tel...@gmail.com On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 12:33 -0600, Leandro Gómez wrote: On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote: This is again only creating more work on the active members, rather than growing the community. I see the glass half full here... it's an excellent opportunity for an inactive member to step up and get involved. I'm not sure how many new members would step up to take a full responsibility like that. It's our fault if people don't step up. That means that we failed to inspire others to get involved in the community. Even so wouldnt that just be a proxy announcement for the artist? Why not allow the artist to announce that directly? And any missing exciting ones can be announced by the new members ? I completely understand your reasoning and your intentions behind this. I'm just annoyed to see yet another bureaucratic process being added to the list. +1 Just my 2 cents. I appreciate the intent but I find it difficult to understand how making demands which can not be enforced become a positive motivational tool. My perception is individuals who are looking for advice do post this desire to the list and members from the community are making comments and suggestions. I believe a comment was posted from the Xubuntu community a few days back. This is not something I support. With respect and appreciation, John -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
On Fri, 2010-12-10 at 17:08 -0500, John Baer wrote: 2010/12/10 Leandro Gómez leo.tel...@gmail.com I completely understand your reasoning and your intentions behind this. I'm just annoyed to see yet another bureaucratic process being added to the list. Just my 2 cents. I appreciate the intent but I find it difficult to understand how making demands which can not be enforced become a positive motivational tool. This is not a new concept/idea. For folks who remember Breathe Icon theme, this was part of the submissions process: Put your submissions here. ... along with an announcement of your submission on the Ubuntu-Artwork Team mailing list. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Submissions It worked for Breathe, every submission was announced and critiqued here. And critiques were from members who did not work on Breathe Icon set too. My perception is individuals who are looking for advice do post this desire to the list and members from the community are making comments and suggestions. I believe a comment was posted from the Xubuntu community a few days back. This is not something I support. Just because new folks are trying to take-on the responsibility, we should not forget how successful community projects were run in the past. And as Сергей mentioned earlier, 'Breathe icon theme' did feel like a community process and not an every man for himself task. -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Make announcement of submissions mandatory
Hi, While we are getting new submissions for each task, there seems to be less activity here regarding the submissions and it is not clear that there were submissions even. If anyone had to check the new submissions they will have to keep checking the respective flickr groups *daily* for submissions. Not everyone would be doing that. Only the people running the tasks would look into it fairly regularly. We need to get more eyes on the submissions. More people expressing their views/opinions/critique on the submissions. Announcements will also help get a review earlier than the deadline and time for tweaks. Ensuing discussion might create new/better ideas. Let's make announcement of the submissions mandatory and make sure it is mentioned in every task page. Now the question would be, what if someone has not announced and the submission is too good to miss out? If someone finds a submission sitting in the collection pool un-announced for more than a week, just announce it for the submitter. (not necessary that the submitter needs to be the one who announces.) And, let's make sure the submitter is notified that their submission is being discussed here. Would we still miss a few submissions? Maybe. If no one is excited enough about the submission to make the proxy-announcement either, would it have been selected? Maybe not. But, skipping out on a few submissions seems a trade off to growing and building a larger community. What do others think? Shall we make this mandatory? -- Cheers, Vish -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
