Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Please dont be top-posting Nazis on me, I'm on my iPod touch. shadowh511 On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, So far, I have written up a very narrow, specific list of visual parameters for a theme of the type one would download from Gnome-Looks. However, I was really hoping this make-over thing would also include some UI changes as well. In my write-up to the Art Team wiki, should I leave out all my UI hopes and dreams? Barring the key-hole arrows I had mentioned earlier, as those are to be part of the nautilus window itself. Thanks, Brian Fleeger Anything and everything is appreciated. It all depends on what the art team decides on, and most importantly, what is possible theme wise. Okay -- I typed up my design design parameters (with a big chunk directly stolen from New Wave's guidelines) and posted them to the art team WIKI page. I did not include *all* my user interface suggestions, because I know for a fact that many of my ideas are not implementable in so short a time. Let me know if you want/need more concept art. Regards, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
shadowh511 Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Sure, but how do I do that? Do you mean like a sub-wiki page, or upload a PDF? Thanks, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shadowh511 Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Sure, but how do I do that? Do you mean like a sub-wiki page, or upload a PDF? Thanks, Brian Perhaps as a wiki. That way its just right there. Ill suggest that to everyone then- make your own pages for guidelines. This could get lengthy. -- Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shadowh511 Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Sure, but how do I do that? Do you mean like a sub-wiki page, or upload a PDF? Perhaps as a wiki. That way its just right there. Ill suggest that to everyone then- make your own pages for guidelines. This could get lengthy. Okay, I will do it later tonight. Can I suggest you put forth a standard label or title format for Art Team guideline proposals. That way the guideline proposals will be clearly distinct from other incoming Intrepid art. Also, I think there should be a clear cut-off date for guideline proposals. After all, eventually the Canonical folks are going to have to either choose one set of guidelines or assimilate the features they like into one official set. That official guideline set will be the only way themers can really start creating competing concepts in time for the August cut-off deadline. Regards, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shadowh511 Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Sure, but how do I do that? Do you mean like a sub-wiki page, or upload a PDF? Perhaps as a wiki. That way its just right there. Ill suggest that to everyone then- make your own pages for guidelines. This could get lengthy. Okay, I will do it later tonight. Can I suggest you put forth a standard label or title format for Art Team guideline proposals. That way the guideline proposals will be clearly distinct from other incoming Intrepid art. Also, I think there should be a clear cut-off date for guideline proposals. After all, eventually the Canonical folks are going to have to either choose one set of guidelines or assimilate the features they like into one official set. That official guideline set will be the only way themers can really start creating competing concepts in time for the August cut-off deadline. Regards, Brian Honestly, there is one Canonical person who decides what goes in, and that is Ken. Mark has the final say so. As soon as I get more proposals, We will formulate a unified list, create a mockup, and the themes will create the theme. There really will not be competing concepts.There are things we are looking for, and things users want, so it is more effective if we work towards one common theme using the guideline/discussion mockup/discussion theme creation work flow. -- Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Honestly, there is one Canonical person who decides what goes in, and that is Ken. Mark has the final say so. As soon as I get more proposals, We will formulate a unified list, create a mockup, and the themes will create the theme. There really will not be competing concepts.There are things we are looking for, and things users want, so it is more effective if we work towards one common theme using the guideline/discussion mockup/discussion theme creation work flow. Sounds good. Will the Art Team community be privy to critiquing the final theme dev process, or will it be Canonical internal? One more question: is Intrepid going to integrate a main panel look instead of the now-traditional three menu system (application, places, and system)? If so, would ideas for its appearance and layout also be something up for Art Team design input? Just curious, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Honestly, there is one Canonical person who decides what goes in, and that is Ken. Mark has the final say so. As soon as I get more proposals, We will formulate a unified list, create a mockup, and the themes will create the theme. There really will not be competing concepts.There are things we are looking for, and things users want, so it is more effective if we work towards one common theme using the guideline/discussion mockup/discussion theme creation work flow. Sounds good. Will the Art Team community be privy to critiquing the final theme dev process, or will it be Canonical internal? One more question: is Intrepid going to integrate a main panel look instead of the now-traditional three menu system (application, places, and system)? If so, would ideas for its appearance and layout also be something up for Art Team design input? Just curious, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Community mostly. I think everyone will like what everyone created in the guidelines, and what everyone created in this theme! I dont know about the menu. I would rather see what you have described happen, but its a larger issue. Its design would be up to the Art Team indeed. -- Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Friday 11 July 2008 00:48:57 Brian Fleeger wrote: From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Honestly, there is one Canonical person who decides what goes in, and that is Ken. Mark has the final say so. As soon as I get more proposals, We will formulate a unified list, create a mockup, and the themes will create the theme. There really will not be competing concepts.There are things we are looking for, and things users want, so it is more effective if we work towards one common theme using the guideline/discussion mockup/discussion theme creation work flow. Sounds good. Will the Art Team community be privy to critiquing the final theme dev process, or will it be Canonical internal? All final decisions on the default artwork are Canonical internal. I Still think that several teams could work on themes as they want and (at least) one team could work on ideas for the default artwork although they need to know in advance that only some ideas are realizable and the not everything will get in, perhaps due to something as simple as an opinion. One more question: is Intrepid going to integrate a main panel look instead of the now-traditional three menu system (application, places, and system)? If so, would ideas for its appearance and layout also be something up for Art Team design input? Until now, code-wise and style-wise the same menu system will be used in intrepid as before. -- Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
Upload a pdf shadowh511 On Jul 10, 2008, at 5:22 AM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: shadowh511 Brian, I think that your guidelines should be posted as an attachment to the wiki page. Sure, but how do I do that? Do you mean like a sub-wiki page, or upload a PDF? Thanks, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
2008/7/11 Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Honestly, there is one Canonical person who decides what goes in, and that is Ken. Mark has the final say so. As soon as I get more proposals, We will formulate a unified list, create a mockup, and the themes will create the theme. There really will not be competing concepts.There are things we are looking for, and things users want, so it is more effective if we work towards one common theme using the guideline/discussion mockup/discussion theme creation work flow. Sounds good. Will the Art Team community be privy to critiquing the final theme dev process, or will it be Canonical internal? One more question: is Intrepid going to integrate a main panel look instead of the now-traditional three menu system (application, places, and system)? If so, would ideas for its appearance and layout also be something up for Art Team design input? Just curious, Brian The community here in the mailing list is completely unofficial and in most case its mockups are ignored. Even though at the same time it is the right place to propose your work, so if you have time and you have something original in your mind -you should really- post it here (why not contribute if you have a great idea? why don't share it with the developers?). Also, as said by kenneth, ten thousands of mockups full of transparency and mac-like nautilus are completely useless. From my point of view, one thing that could be done to have a higher quality community contribution is 1) don't threat the mailing list as a chat 2) use it to ask help, not to ask opinions (hey do you like my fancy-new-ultra theme?) 3) merge guys, teams, then let's order the work in the wiki, doing real stuff and not mockups -- Andrea Cimitan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.cimitan.com Murrine: http://murrine.cimitan.com GNOME Developer: http://www.gnome.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Friday 11 July 2008 01:09:09 Andrea Cimitan wrote: snip.../snip The community here in the mailing list is completely unofficial and in most case its mockups are ignored. If they had more bearing on what is actually possible I think that they would see much more acceptance by developers who could/would/should implement it. Long term goals and mockups are one thing, dealing with the current system and planning for the future while trying to improve the system itself is the real goal, I think. From an artist perspective it is always a drag to have a good idea and be told it'll never happen but my experience has shown that sometimes that is simply how it is. There are some lengths you can go to to change things and sometimes the best ideas are the ones that nobody has thought of before and are easily reailzable but more often than not, people think up stuff that might look awesome on a screenshot and very well might be the next big thing but without a team of developers *and* upstream support it'll never happen. Let's not forget that this is the art list and not necessarily the UI list. If you ask me, we should work at getting the most out of what is there first, which would build trust in the team, which would lead to more people helping, etc. There is a way to get this all done, no matter how far fetched it may seem but the crazier the idea, the more work it is and the longer it will take. Let's get some things straight first and work in an orderly manner to really improve things. Even though at the same time it is the right place to propose your work, so if you have time and you have something original in your mind -you should really- post it here (why not contribute if you have a great idea? why don't share it with the developers?). Also, as said by kenneth, ten thousands of mockups full of transparency and mac-like nautilus are completely useless. From my point of view, one thing that could be done to have a higher quality community contribution is 1) don't threat the mailing list as a chat 2) use it to ask help, not to ask opinions (hey do you like my fancy-new-ultra theme?) 3) merge guys, teams, then let's order the work in the wiki, doing real stuff and not mockups Indeed the mailing list is becoming a problem for those who really work on specific issues. I'll be announcing some new stuff soon, mainly a -dev list which will reduce the noise level for those who contribute actively. More on this soon. -- Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
2008/7/11 Kenneth Wimer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Friday 11 July 2008 01:09:09 Andrea Cimitan wrote: snip.../snip The community here in the mailing list is completely unofficial and in most case its mockups are ignored. If they had more bearing on what is actually possible I think that they would see much more acceptance by developers who could/would/should implement it. Long term goals and mockups are one thing, dealing with the current system and planning for the future while trying to improve the system itself is the real goal, I think. From an artist perspective it is always a drag to have a good idea and be told it'll never happen but my experience has shown that sometimes that is simply how it is. There are some lengths you can go to to change things and sometimes the best ideas are the ones that nobody has thought of before and are easily reailzable but more often than not, people think up stuff that might look awesome on a screenshot and very well might be the next big thing but without a team of developers *and* upstream support it'll never happen. Let's not forget that this is the art list and not necessarily the UI list. I never said it will never happen, I've just said that when you work on something you must do something that starts from a real/actual work. Otherwise it is just junk, like hundreds of *gnome 3.0* mockups/topaz I've seen on the web in these years. No one will be used to develop gnome 3.0. One thing is *ideas*, one thing is something that is completely redesigning the whole UI toolkit and applications. Also because it's not just *design* but it implies usability: is your idea usable or it is just cool? Designers/themers must know the HIG before drawing their mockups. If you ask me, we should work at getting the most out of what is there first, which would build trust in the team, which would lead to more people helping, etc. There is a way to get this all done, no matter how far fetched it may seem but the crazier the idea, the more work it is and the longer it will take. Let's get some things straight first and work in an orderly manner to really improve things. Yeah, should be great to have more guys to help, but the problem is... who :) Who will have decisional power in the community? Even though at the same time it is the right place to propose your work, so if you have time and you have something original in your mind -you should really- post it here (why not contribute if you have a great idea? why don't share it with the developers?). Also, as said by kenneth, ten thousands of mockups full of transparency and mac-like nautilus are completely useless. From my point of view, one thing that could be done to have a higher quality community contribution is 1) don't threat the mailing list as a chat 2) use it to ask help, not to ask opinions (hey do you like my fancy-new-ultra theme?) 3) merge guys, teams, then let's order the work in the wiki, doing real stuff and not mockups Indeed the mailing list is becoming a problem for those who really work on specific issues. I'll be announcing some new stuff soon, mainly a -dev list which will reduce the noise level for those who contribute actively. More on this soon. -- Ken -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art -- Andrea Cimitan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Website: http://www.cimitan.com Murrine: http://murrine.cimitan.com GNOME Developer: http://www.gnome.org -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Friday 11 July 2008 01:03:42 Salane Ashcraft wrote: Thanks Ken. Haven't seen you on here in a while! It's been a week since I posted to this list :p Sorry, I've been working on another project for Canonical and thought that things were going well so I didn't meddle - someitmes it is better when I don't get all too wordy :-) We have to learn to work as a team of a group of teams. That is, in my mind, the first test of whether any of this means anything. In order to do that we need teams of talented people who are willing to listen and work on some cohesive ideas which are somehow at some point in it's own timeline based on reality or something at least close to reality. Have fun! Ken P.S. Updates to NewHuman theme on my hardy PPA as well as in Intrepid. Nothing major yet, mainly bug-fixes from Conn. Funky button contrast stuff to come (Thanks, Conn!) -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Kenneth Wimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 July 2008 01:03:42 Salane Ashcraft wrote: Thanks Ken. Haven't seen you on here in a while! It's been a week since I posted to this list :p Sorry, I've been working on another project for Canonical and thought that things were going well so I didn't meddle - someitmes it is better when I don't get all too wordy :-) We have to learn to work as a team of a group of teams. That is, in my mind, the first test of whether any of this means anything. In order to do that we need teams of talented people who are willing to listen and work on some cohesive ideas which are somehow at some point in it's own timeline based on reality or something at least close to reality. Have fun! Ken P.S. Updates to NewHuman theme on my hardy PPA as well as in Intrepid. Nothing major yet, mainly bug-fixes from Conn. Funky button contrast stuff to come (Thanks, Conn!) -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art That is what Mark wanted, and what I have suggested as well. We need guidelines created, and a unified effort moving forward from there. -- Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
Hi, So far, I have written up a very narrow, specific list of visual parameters for a theme of the type one would download from Gnome-Looks. However, I was really hoping this make-over thing would also include some UI changes as well. In my write-up to the Art Team wiki, should I leave out all my UI hopes and dreams? Barring the key-hole arrows I had mentioned earlier, as those are to be part of the nautilus window itself. Thanks, Brian Fleeger -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 9:21 PM, Brian Fleeger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, So far, I have written up a very narrow, specific list of visual parameters for a theme of the type one would download from Gnome-Looks. However, I was really hoping this make-over thing would also include some UI changes as well. In my write-up to the Art Team wiki, should I leave out all my UI hopes and dreams? Barring the key-hole arrows I had mentioned earlier, as those are to be part of the nautilus window itself. Thanks, Brian Fleeger Anything and everything is appreciated. It all depends on what the art team decides on, and most importantly, what is possible theme wise. -- Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] Quick question for the WIKI regarding the range of what constitutes a theme
From: Salane Ashcraft [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, So far, I have written up a very narrow, specific list of visual parameters for a theme of the type one would download from Gnome-Looks. However, I was really hoping this make-over thing would also include some UI changes as well. In my write-up to the Art Team wiki, should I leave out all my UI hopes and dreams? Barring the key-hole arrows I had mentioned earlier, as those are to be part of the nautilus window itself. Thanks, Brian Fleeger Anything and everything is appreciated. It all depends on what the art team decides on, and most importantly, what is possible theme wise. Okay -- I typed up my design design parameters (with a big chunk directly stolen from New Wave's guidelines) and posted them to the art team WIKI page. I did not include *all* my user interface suggestions, because I know for a fact that many of my ideas are not implementable in so short a time. Let me know if you want/need more concept art. Regards, Brian -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
