Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Karl Goetz
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:43:53 +1100
The Wassermans  wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 11:19 +1030, Karl Goetz wrote:
> 
> > > What does it mean?  
> > 
> > Isn't that fairly obvious? :) Your copy of grubs menu.lst has been
> > changed, and its been changed by something other then the packaging
> > system.
> 
> I guess so, but I still struggle a bit with some of the jargon.  I'm
> still very nervous about trashing the system by being too hasty.

Thats understandable.
I have a SPARC system running on my network, which uses Silo (based on
Lilo).
I think I've forgotten to run the silo update after changing its kernel
twice now, with the result of not booting.

> 
> Anyway, what with your gentle push in my back, I accepted the "install
> the package  maintainer's version".  And Bingo! It fixed the problem.

Great to hear! Its odd that you wound up with this problem, as grub
handles updates to the file (I've never had to manually run grub-update
unless recovering a broken system).

> 
> Thank you Karl and Karl.  Thank you Paul and Dave.  Thank you Andre
> too.
> 
> So completes yet another 2 minute tweak that took me several hours
> accomplish.

aye, but next time you'll know what to do (and you'll probably be
braver about exploring the options).
kk

> 
> Dave W
> 


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread The Wassermans
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 11:19 +1030, Karl Goetz wrote:

> > What does it mean?  
> 
> Isn't that fairly obvious? :) Your copy of grubs menu.lst has been
> changed, and its been changed by something other then the packaging
> system.

I guess so, but I still struggle a bit with some of the jargon.  I'm
still very nervous about trashing the system by being too hasty.

Anyway, what with your gentle push in my back, I accepted the "install
the package  maintainer's version".  And Bingo! It fixed the problem.

Thank you Karl and Karl.  Thank you Paul and Dave.  Thank you Andre too.

So completes yet another 2 minute tweak that took me several hours
accomplish.

Dave W


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Karl Bowden
2009/1/7 Paul Gear :
> Karl Bowden wrote:
>> ...
>>> Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
>>> aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that should
>>> be quite easy
>>
>> Just as a matter of - hey this is how I manager my old kernels.
>
> Just to chime in with a "me too", my method is this: DON'T DO ANYTHING.
>  A kernel package is never likely to fill your disk, and leaving it
> there costs absolutely nothing.
>
> More importantly, you have a fallback if you need to do something like
> move your hard disk into another system which for some reason doesn't
> work on newer kernels.
>
> I've been burned by other distros which overwrite the currently running
> kernel, and i'm glad Ubuntu lets those old ones build up.  They come in
> handy from time to time!
>
> Paul

I would also second this point! I normally only keep the latest two or
three kernels around and have - even in ubuntu - had a minor kernel
update kill wireless functionality and had to revert to the previous
kernel again.

Another point of interest in this case is that if if just the grub
boot menu that you want to keep clean, maybe the best way would be to
change the 'howmany' option in menu.lst to 2. This will not remove old
kernels from the system, but will only display the 2 latest kernels in
grub. (After you have installed the package maintainers version of
menu.lst again)

- Karl

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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Karl Goetz
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:30:05 +1100
The Wassermans  wrote:

> Thank you Karl and Dave,
> 
> I ran sudo update-grub and this is what I got:-
> 
> "
>  A new version of /boot/grub/menu.lst is available, but the version
> │ │ installed currently has been locally modified.
> │ 
> │ What would you like to do about menu.lst?
> │ 
> │  install the package maintainer's version
> │  keep the local version currently installed
> │  show the differences between the versions
> │  show a side-by-side difference between the versions
> │  show a 3-way difference between available versions
> │  do a 3-way merge between available versions (experimental)
> │  start a new shell to examine the situation
> │ 
> │  
> "
> 
> What does it mean?  

Isn't that fairly obvious? :) Your copy of grubs menu.lst has been
changed, and its been changed by something other then the packaging
system.

> 
> What should I do now, please?

You should decide which course of action to take.

A safe one is probably to backup your existing menu.lst, then use
"install the package maintainer's version" to fix your file.

If you want to see how they differ, use "show a side-by-side difference
between the versions"
kk

> 
> Dave W
> 
> 


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Karl Goetz
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:28:03 +1000
Paul Gear  wrote:

> Karl Bowden wrote:
> > ...
> >> Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
> >> aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that
> >> should be quite easy
> > 
> > Just as a matter of - hey this is how I manager my old kernels.
> 
> Just to chime in with a "me too", my method is this: DON'T DO
> ANYTHING. A kernel package is never likely to fill your disk, and
> leaving it there costs absolutely nothing.
> 

Unless /boot/ is a separate partition (not common in Ubuntuland, but
worth bearing in mind).
kk

> 
> Paul


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Paul Gear
Karl Bowden wrote:
> ...
>> Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
>> aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that should
>> be quite easy
> 
> Just as a matter of - hey this is how I manager my old kernels.

Just to chime in with a "me too", my method is this: DON'T DO ANYTHING.
 A kernel package is never likely to fill your disk, and leaving it
there costs absolutely nothing.

More importantly, you have a fallback if you need to do something like
move your hard disk into another system which for some reason doesn't
work on newer kernels.

I've been burned by other distros which overwrite the currently running
kernel, and i'm glad Ubuntu lets those old ones build up.  They come in
handy from time to time!

Paul
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n:Gear;Paul
org:Liberty Systems & Software
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tel;cell:04 3183 7656
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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread The Wassermans
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 08:46 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:
> try running 
> 
> sudo update-grub
> 
> from a terminal/the console.
> 
> Sorry for not replying to your previous post, been distracted by work
> and the heat :(

No worries Dave.  Somebody has to do it!



On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 09:21 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:

> I know it's a bit light on details, but just ask if there is anything
> you want clarified above. (I'm used to working in a quiet office
> without human contact).

Plenty of detail thank you Karl. (Watch out for dem humans!)

===

Thank you Karl and Dave,

I ran sudo update-grub and this is what I got:-

"
 A new version of /boot/grub/menu.lst is available, but the version   │ 
│ installed currently has been locally modified.
│ 
│
│ 
│ What would you like to do about menu.lst?
│ 
│
│ 
│  install the package maintainer's version
│ 
│  keep the local version currently installed
│ 
│  show the differences between the versions
│ 
│  show a side-by-side difference between the versions
│ 
│  show a 3-way difference between available versions
│ 
│  do a 3-way merge between available versions (experimental)
│ 
│  start a new shell to examine the situation
│ 
│
│ 
│
│ 
│



"

What does it mean?  

What should I do now, please?

Dave W


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Dave Hall
On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 08:03 +1100, The Wassermans wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 09:21 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:
> 
> > I personally keep the previous kernel for a few days to make sure that
> > everything works properly.
> > 
> > > 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
> > 
> > Using GNOME go system > admin > synaptic package manager
> > 
> > Search for "linux-image"
> > 
> > Don't try to remove the highest numbered entry (that will be the kernel
> > you are running)
> > 
> > For the remaining "linux-image-2.6.xx-y*" entries, just right click on
> > them and select "Mark for complete removal".  It will ask you to confirm
> > that you also want to remove the related restricted modules package as
> > well.
> > 
> > When done click Apply.  Confirm that you are happy with the changes by
> > clicking apply.  Wait for synaptic to work its magic.
> 
> I  did all of that Dave.  Actually, I did the above for Kernel #16, as a
> test. Upon re-booting the pesky #16 was still there.  So I re-booted and
> selected #16 and got the error message: "file not found". I have tried
> all the remedies suggested by the other members but nothing seems to get
> rid of the long list of Kernels at start-up.
> 
> Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
> aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that should
> be quite easy

I know in earlier versions of ubuntu that the menu.lst wasn't always
properly updated.  try running 

sudo update-grub

from a terminal/the console.

Sorry for not replying to your previous post, been distracted by work
and the heat :(

Cheers

Dave


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread Karl Bowden
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 8:03 AM, The Wassermans  wrote:
> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 09:21 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:
>
>> I personally keep the previous kernel for a few days to make sure that
>> everything works properly.
>>
>> > 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
>>
>> Using GNOME go system > admin > synaptic package manager
>>
>> Search for "linux-image"
>>
>> Don't try to remove the highest numbered entry (that will be the kernel
>> you are running)
>>
>> For the remaining "linux-image-2.6.xx-y*" entries, just right click on
>> them and select "Mark for complete removal".  It will ask you to confirm
>> that you also want to remove the related restricted modules package as
>> well.
>>
>> When done click Apply.  Confirm that you are happy with the changes by
>> clicking apply.  Wait for synaptic to work its magic.
>
> I  did all of that Dave.  Actually, I did the above for Kernel #16, as a
> test. Upon re-booting the pesky #16 was still there.  So I re-booted and
> selected #16 and got the error message: "file not found". I have tried
> all the remedies suggested by the other members but nothing seems to get
> rid of the long list of Kernels at start-up.
>
> Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
> aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that should
> be quite easy

Just as a matter of - hey this is how I manager my old kernels.
I'm not sure sure about the gui way of doing it, but to see a list of
kernels and kernel related packages I have installed, from the command
line I use:

dpkg -l | grep linux

If I then want to filter it to a specific kernel I would copy the
kernel version and paste it at the end of the line instead of linux:

dpkg -l | grep 2.6.27-7

I can then remove an old kernel using the names of the packages listed, eg:

sudo apt-get remove linux-headers-2.6.27-7
linux-headers-2.6.27-7-generic linux-image-2.6.27-7-generic
linux-restricted-modules-2.6.27-7-generic

It is safe to just remove only the image package too and leave the
rest. They will not be used by most systems after the image is gone
anyway.

And by the sounds of the symptoms of your grub file, it is not being
updated automatically anymore by update-grub. If you run:

sudo update-grub

It should list the kernels as Found kernel and update
/boot/grub/menu.lst at the end. It is probably not completing it's
task anymore because of the manual changes to /boot/grub/menu.lst. I
would not go replacing my menu.lst file with someone else's without a
bit of experience, but if I did, I would need to update the kopt and
groot lines to reflect my ubuntu partitions UUID (as found in your
current menu.lst. Then on running sudo update-grub the kernel lines
would be generated again and invalid entries removed.

I know it's a bit light on details, but just ask if there is anything
you want clarified above. (I'm used to working in a quiet office
without human contact).

- Karl

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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-06 Thread The Wassermans
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 09:21 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:

> I personally keep the previous kernel for a few days to make sure that
> everything works properly.
> 
> > 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
> 
> Using GNOME go system > admin > synaptic package manager
> 
> Search for "linux-image"
> 
> Don't try to remove the highest numbered entry (that will be the kernel
> you are running)
> 
> For the remaining "linux-image-2.6.xx-y*" entries, just right click on
> them and select "Mark for complete removal".  It will ask you to confirm
> that you also want to remove the related restricted modules package as
> well.
> 
> When done click Apply.  Confirm that you are happy with the changes by
> clicking apply.  Wait for synaptic to work its magic.

I  did all of that Dave.  Actually, I did the above for Kernel #16, as a
test. Upon re-booting the pesky #16 was still there.  So I re-booted and
selected #16 and got the error message: "file not found". I have tried
all the remedies suggested by the other members but nothing seems to get
rid of the long list of Kernels at start-up.

Not that it's all that important really.  It's just a matter of
aesthetics.  And the frustration at trying to fix something that should
be quite easy


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-02 Thread Andre Mangan
2009/1/3 The Wassermans 

> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 08:57 +1100, Andre Mangan wrote:
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> > 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
> >
> >
> > You can either open the boot menu (sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst) and
> > alter the number of displayed kernels to "2" rather than the default
> > of "All" (this will not remove anything but merely remove them from
> > display) or you can install-StartUp Manager (sudo apt-get install
> > startupmanager) which will give you a GUI.
>
> Thanks Andre.  I did this, both ways (to be sure! to be sure!).
> However, upon re-boot the old Kernels, all the way back to ver #16 still
> displays.  Do I presume, therefore that this will only take effect in
> future?
>
> So I'm left with the original problem.  How to get rid of the listing
> upon boot up?



Sorry, I forgot to mention that altering the /boot/grub/menu.lst to display
less kernels than the default "All" only takes effect after the next kernel
update.
Making any changes in the StartUp-Manager I thought to become effective
immediately.

Andre



> While you are there, in either method, you can also shorten the boot
> delay time from the default 10 seconds to (say) 3 seconds.
>

> Noted.
>
>
>
> > Andre
> >
> >
> >
> > ubuntu-au mailing list
> > ubuntu-au@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-au
> >
>
>
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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-02 Thread The Wassermans
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 09:21 +1100, Dave Hall wrote:
> > 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
> 
> Using GNOME go system > admin > synaptic package manager
> 
> Search for "linux-image"
> 
> Don't try to remove the highest numbered entry (that will be the kernel
> you are running)
> 
> For the remaining "linux-image-2.6.xx-y*" entries, just right click on
> them and select "Mark for complete removal".  It will ask you to confirm
> that you also want to remove the related restricted modules package as
> well.
> 
> When done click Apply.  Confirm that you are happy with the changes by
> clicking apply.  Wait for synaptic to work its magic.
> 

Thank you Dave, 

I tried this on just image #16. It behaved much as you said.  However,
upon re-boot, #16 is still displayed - even though it has been deleted!

Strange??




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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-02 Thread The Wassermans
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 08:57 +1100, Andre Mangan wrote:
> 
> 

> 
> 
> 3.  How would I go about deleting them?
> 
> 
> You can either open the boot menu (sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst) and
> alter the number of displayed kernels to "2" rather than the default
> of "All" (this will not remove anything but merely remove them from
> display) or you can install-StartUp Manager (sudo apt-get install
> startupmanager) which will give you a GUI.

Thanks Andre.  I did this, both ways (to be sure! to be sure!).
However, upon re-boot the old Kernels, all the way back to ver #16 still
displays.  Do I presume, therefore that this will only take effect in
future?

So I'm left with the original problem.  How to get rid of the listing
upon boot up?




> While you are there, in either method, you can also shorten the boot
> delay time from the default 10 seconds to (say) 3 seconds.
>  
Noted.



> Andre
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-01 Thread Karl Goetz
On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 08:11:56 +1100
The Wassermans  wrote:

> I am running Ubuntu 8.04.  It boots up on Kernel version 22.
> 


> 
> I read somewhere that old versions should be removed as they slow down
> the booting process. 

Unless the GRUB shipped with Ubuntu works differently to the one I have
installed, this is nonsense.
Display time for grub on my system is 5 seconds - whether I have 1
kernel or 10.
kk

> 
> 
> Happy New Year . . . . 
> 
> Dave W
> 
> 


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-01 Thread Dave Hall
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 10:17 +1100, Andre Mangan wrote:
> Addendum
> 
> If you want to list your installed kernels, type ls /boot into a
> terminal window.

That shows you the contents of /boot which contains kernel related
files. On older boxes the contents can be misleading as there can be
remnants left behind from older kernels.

If you want to see a list of kernels installed from debs in a terminal
use 

dpkg -l linux-image-\*

Cheers

Dave



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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-01 Thread Andre Mangan
Addendum

If you want to list your installed kernels, type ls /boot into a terminal
window.
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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-01 Thread Dave Hall
On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 08:11 +1100, The Wassermans wrote:
> I am running Ubuntu 8.04.  It boots up on Kernel version 22.
> 
> However, when booting up I am presented with several lines relating to
> older Kernel versions and their respective "recovery mode".  Obviously
> automatically saved as updates are installed.
> 
> I read somewhere that old versions should be removed as they slow down
> the booting process.  Though I don't really have any complaint about
> what seems to me to be a quick bootup anyway.  It's just that I don't
> like all those lines of information in my face.
> 
> So I have some questions please: 
> 
> 1.  What is the purpose of storing the old kernel versions?

To allow you to roll back if there is a regression.

> 2.  Any reason why I should not delete the oldies?  (And/or maybe just
> save the last superseded one?)

I personally keep the previous kernel for a few days to make sure that
everything works properly.

> 3.  How would I go about deleting them?

Using GNOME go system > admin > synaptic package manager

Search for "linux-image"

Don't try to remove the highest numbered entry (that will be the kernel
you are running)

For the remaining "linux-image-2.6.xx-y*" entries, just right click on
them and select "Mark for complete removal".  It will ask you to confirm
that you also want to remove the related restricted modules package as
well.

When done click Apply.  Confirm that you are happy with the changes by
clicking apply.  Wait for synaptic to work its magic.

> 
> Happy New Year . . . . 

To you (and others on the list) too!

Cheers

Dave


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Re: Old Kernels . . .(never die!)

2009-01-01 Thread Andre Mangan
2009/1/2 The Wassermans 

> I am running Ubuntu 8.04.  It boots up on Kernel version 22.
>

Hello Dave and a Happy New Year to you too,

However, when booting up I am presented with several lines relating to
> older Kernel versions and their respective "recovery mode".  Obviously
> automatically saved as updates are installed.
>
> I read somewhere that old versions should be removed as they slow down
> the booting process.  Though I don't really have any complaint about
> what seems to me to be a quick bootup anyway.  It's just that I don't
> like all those lines of information in my face.
>
> So I have some questions please:
>
> 1.  What is the purpose of storing the old kernel versions?


In case a new kernel deactivates one of your hardware devices, you can boot
with a previous working kernel.

2.  Any reason why I should not delete the oldies?  (And/or maybe
justsave the last superseded one?)

You can delete if you know which one you want to delete.  I always keep two.

3.  How would I go about deleting them?

You can either open the boot menu (sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst) and alter
the number of displayed kernels to "2" rather than the default of "All"
(this will not remove anything but merely remove them from display) or you
can install-StartUp Manager (sudo apt-get install startupmanager) which will
give you a GUI.

While you are there, in either method, you can also shorten the boot delay
time from the default 10 seconds to (say) 3 seconds.

Andre


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